The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Dukes and Skins]

Not a bad mock from Ford but I'd prefer

6. Vesely

18. Marshon Brooks

34. Jeremy Tyler

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Tyler to me is another uber-raw bigman.

I was going to post just that but I wanted to look up Tyler's numbers overseas real quick. Check out the last paragraph of the first article that I found. Notice any familiar names?

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/2011-nba-mock-draft-how-good-is-jeremy-tyler

God help us...

[Dukes and Skins]

Tyler to me is another uber-raw bigman.

I was going to post just that but I wanted to look up Tyler's numbers overseas real quick. Check out the last paragraph of the first article that I found. Notice any familiar names?

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/2011-nba-mock-draft-how-good-is-jeremy-tyler

God help us...

Definitely uber raw but someone at 34 is worth the risk you know? If he develops he becomes a good #2 C behind McGee. Yes he needs work but I'd take the risk on him with his potential

[Samuels]

I think Wizards fans are going overboard thinking Kanter will contribute right away thats almost a pipe dream. I like him as a prospect alot but he is basically a HS player that has had 2 years off from competitive basketball. He will need 2-3 years to develop and might not even sniff the floor as a rookie.

I think KG was the only high school player that was decent as a rookie and he is a hall of famer.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I think Wizards fans are going overboard thinking Kanter will contribute right away thats almost a pipe dream. I like him as a prospect alot but he is basically a HS player that has had 2 years off from competitive basketball. He will need 2-3 years to develop and might not even sniff the floor as a rookie.

I think KG was the only high school player that was decent as a rookie and he is a hall of famer.

Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Andrew Bynum, Al Jefferson, J.R.Smith etc.

[McD5]

I think Wizards fans are going overboard thinking Kanter will contribute right away thats almost a pipe dream. I like him as a prospect alot but he is basically a HS player that has had 2 years off from competitive basketball. He will need 2-3 years to develop and might not even sniff the floor as a rookie.

I think KG was the only high school player that was decent as a rookie and he is a hall of famer.

And Dwight.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

And Dwight.

I forgot all about him. :doh:

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Moses Malone.

Just looking up HS-to-pro players, and holy **** I can't believe Telfair is only 26 years old. It seems like he's been around FOREVER.

---------- Post added June-21st-2011 at 09:48 PM ----------

Amare Stoudemire is another one. RoY I believe.

---------- Post added June-21st-2011 at 10:02 PM ----------

Josh Smith, TMac, Monta Ellis, Tyson Chandler and Shaun Livingston all had respectable rookie years.

Brandon Jennings (though he did play a year overseas.)

---------- Post added June-21st-2011 at 10:07 PM ----------

Here's a question: who had the greatest rookie season ever?

Edited June 22, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Samuels]

Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Andrew Bynum, Al Jefferson, J.R.Smith etc.

Kobe did'nt play well until his 2nd year. Bynum did'nt do jack, niether did Jefferson. JR averaged 10ppg but was horrible shooting the ball.

Moses, Dwight and LeBron had very good rookie years considering the came from HS. Amare had a decent year but again we are talking about top notch NBA players probably Hall of famers.

Chandler sucked, Ellis did'nt stand out, Livingston was decent in limited minutes and Josh Smith was a good player despite making alot of mental errors.

My point is its asking to much of that kid to soon especially being away for 2 years unless he is a HOF caliber player which is unlikely at this point. I just read on other threads guys expecting him to play 20+ minutes etc its just not likely.

Edited June 22, 2011 by Samuels

[No Excuses]

He might play 20+ MPG simply based on who is challenging him at the position.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I mean I've been busy with the new job and away from this thread for the most part so maybe I'm missing something, but who's hyping up Kanter like that? I personally just want a solid player with good upside who can get mins this year, help us improve, improve himself as the season goes on and then, a couple of years down the road, ultimately become Wall's rock down low and push Blatche out the door. I don't think that's ridiculous. What are others saying?

[Destino]

I'm not expecting Kanter to be a 35 minute player year one. This is the NBA and bigs need to develop and stars reach there top potential in 6 years. But when you look at our depth at the 4 and 5. We could use Kanter in the rotation immediately. We still need a 3 though hopefully Booker has been learning to shoot all summer.

[CrypticVillain]

I know that Kanter would be a project. I am willing to wait for him to develop three or four years, just like I am with McGee. I just watched the NBA Finals and I saw a team without an inside presence just get man-handled by a team, with one true threat of an inside presence. If Kanter could be the bronze to McGee's finesse, I think, along with Wall, the Wizards could be a team to you don't want to mess with.

With that being said, I am not trying to give up too much to get him. Even though he has some good upside, you don't ever want to get raped in a trade.

Edited June 22, 2011 by MLSKINS

[Going Commando]

Here's a question: who had the greatest rookie season ever?

For the modern era? If not, I think Oscar Robertson is a strong candidate.

If you restrict it to the modern era I think David Robinson is my vote. 82 GP, 81 started, 24.3 PPG, 12 RBPG, 3.9 BPG, 2 APG, 1.7 STLPG, 53% FG, 73% FT.

Interesting note, he didn't take a single 3 pointer as a rookie.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better rookie season than that. Blake Griffin might have been able to threaten some of his numbers if he hadn't had a fairly slow start and if he'd been a better defender.

But Robinson was also a 24 year old rookie because he graduated from the Naval Academy and served in the Navy for two years afterward. He was significantly more mature than your average rookie which diminishes his freak accomplishments a little bit.

---------- Post added June-22nd-2011 at 01:25 AM ----------

Also, Kanter is not a high school player like LeBron or Amare or Garnett. He went to college. He played with his college basketball team, he just didn't play games. But he's been in a college system all year, receiving coaching from one of the best college coaches in the business, and competing with some of the best players in the country in practice every day.

He also went to a year of college classes and apparently he's a good student. He's mature for a kid his age and he's one of the youngest guys in the class. Smart kid who's well adjusted to the United States, speaks fluent English now, dad's a PhD, seems to understand how to be a pro and the path to getting there, and has been in the tutelage of one of the best rapid developers of NBA talent in college BB in Calipari for a year. That is not at all your normal HS player and he's not being evaluated in the way the HS players were.

---------- Post added June-22nd-2011 at 01:25 AM ----------

I wonder how Calipari would compare Kanter to DeMarcus Cousins.

Edited June 22, 2011 by stevemcqueen1

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I think Shaq's rookie year is right there with the Admiral's: 24, 14, 3.5 BPG and a couple of backboards. Shaq mightve had the last truly great true (I'm still not counting Blake's) rookie season.MJ, of course, was sick too. 28, 6 and 6.

Edited June 22, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Going Commando]

I think Shaq's rookie year is right there with the Admiral's: 24, 14, 3.5 BPG and a couple of backboards. Shaq mightve had the last truly great true (I'm still not counting Blake's) rookie season.MJ, of course, was sick too. 28, 6 and 6.

Tough call there. I think we've narrowed it down to those three. On the one hand, Shaq and Jordan were much younger than Robinson--Shaq was 20 and Jordan was 21. Shaq also shot better than Robinson from the field at 56 FG% (although his FTs were obviously far worse).

Maybe you take into account team success that year. If so, then Robinson probably wins it because the Spurs went 56 and 26 and finished first in their division. Both the Bulls and Magic ended up in the lottery. But I think you can also attribute a good portion of the Spurs success that year to their acquisition of Terry Cummings, who was still good at that point. The rest of Jordan's team was pretty scrubby, and the core of that Orlando team was still coming together.

As an aside, how ridiculous is it that Orlando ended up with back to back first overall picks after getting a rookie season like that from Shaq. Nick Anderson was a good player too and Scott Skiles and Dennis Scott weren't chopped liver either. Also, did you remember they traded Chris Webber for Penny Hardaway and three future first round picks??? That's absurdly good fortune all the way around. Let's see:

1.) Just got a transcendent rookie season from one of the most dominant centers to ever play the game.

2.) Just got back to back 1st overall picks despite miniscule lottery chances the second time around (they were a tiebreak away from the 8th seed).

3.) Got your second 1st overall pick in a strong draft with one of the most ballyhooed prospects to come along in a while.

4.) Flipped said prospect for a future All Pro and 1996 dream teamer and three future first round picks.

5.) Jordan suddenly and unexpectedly retires during the time this all comes together for you taking out the biggest roadblock in the East.

You can't be handed a more golden opportunity than that. They made the finals almost by default when you think about it, they had such an unbelievable young talent advantage. They were a lame expansion franchise with no basketball tradition and yet the basketball gods conspired to give them every possible chance to become a dynasty... and somehow they had ****ed it all up by 1996. How on earth do you not keep Shaq in those circumstances???

[StillUnknown]

I'm not expecting Kanter to be a 35 minute player year one. This is the NBA and bigs need to develop and stars reach there top potential in 6 years. But when you look at our depth at the 4 and 5. We could use Kanter in the rotation immediately. We still need a 3 though hopefully Booker has been learning to shoot all summer.

I'm content with letting the collection of guys we have now play out the 3 next season (if there is a season), and then drafting our long term solution at the 3 in the 2012 (which should be our last lottery selection for a while if they're building correctly)

[Going Commando]

And here we are, 15 years later, and the Magic are about to lose the best young center in the league (entering his prime) to FA yet again because of spectacular mismanagement. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. It's almost comical. I feel absolutely no pity for the Magic franchise as a Wizards fan. They've made their own bad luck.

---------- Post added June-22nd-2011 at 10:56 AM ----------

I'm content with letting the collection of guys we have now play out the 3 next season (if there is a season), and then drafting our long term solution at the 3 in the 2012 (which should be our last lottery selection for a while if they're building correctly)

Sounds good to me. That's why I want a big so badly this year. I think the combination of good PG + good wing forward + good big is pretty hard to deal with on offense. That's a really good foundation for a really good team.

Here's a set of questions on our future:

--Let's assume we can get a 3 in the 2012 lottery (picking top 8) that can score at least 20 PPG, grab 5-6 rebounds, and play excellent perimeter defense. In short, he's a fringe All Star in the SF rich East. I think this is realistic because you've got a year with Anthony Davis, Harrison Barnes, Michael Gilchrist, and Quincy Miller coming up and all of them have that profile.

--Let's assume we keep Nick Young at around 5-6 million a year for at least four years and don't trade any of our core young guys like Crawford, JaVale, Blatche, Booker, Seraphin, etc.

--Let's assume we retain JaVale after this season (or lockout) is over, probably at around 8-10 million a year.

What do we need from a draft pick like Enes Kanter to be a contender given all of those conditions?

I think we need somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 minutes a game fairly early and maybe even as much as 17 and 10 once he settles in. I think he'd need to be our third best player after Wall and the 2012 SF.

But if you got all of that from him, then I think you've actually got a really good team on your hands. It'd be a nice collection of go to guys and role players.

This is what we already have:

- Wall - all star caliber PG who can facilitate, score, and lock down the perimeter on defense

- Young - lengthy shooter who can thrive off the ball on a (hopefully) good contract, solid defender, can start or come off the bench effectively

- Crawford - penetrating guard who can play either spot, creates his own shots, crunch scorer, facilitator, can defend both spots and gives us large variety of sets with NY and JW.

- Booker - potential lockdown defender who rebounds and brings energy off the bench

- JaVale - rim defender and offensive finisher with the potential to become an upper echelon defender one day

- Blatche - scoring big who can get you 15+ points from your bench as your 6th man

- Seraphin - 6 hard fouls type big who was drafted as an athletic interior defender (Brendan Haywood for the Mavs style backup)/defensive insurance in case McGee gets into foul trouble

This is what we'd hopefully be getting in the 2011 and 2012 lotteries:

- Kanter - scoring and defensive rebounding big who can rotate with Blatche and McGee at the 4 and 5, brings size, toughness, grittiness, and scoring from the block to a softer/finesse pair of bigs

- Gilchrist/Barnes/Miller/Davis - Go to scorers, good rebounders for the position, good to great size from each, good perimeter defenders--in the case of Gilchrist and Barnes, potential elite defenders.

I think that's a smart mix with a lot of versatility and a lot of quality athletes and defenders, everyone fairly young. You'd need a very good coach to keep a young team like that on track. The talent is there if you can keep that core together for a while because you've got a man for each situation and some redundancy on both offense and defense in case of injuries. You'd have upper echelon bench scoring (Blatche + Young or Crawford) and good bench defenders (Booker and Seraphin) giving you an optimal 9 man rotation.

But to be a really good team, you'd need everyone already on the roster to improve their shooting efficiency to some degree as JaVale is actually our only efficient scorer since he limits himself to dunks and layups. Wall, Blatche, and Crawford need to improve their shooting efficiency quite a bit to maximize their use. You'd also need these young players to develop into the kind of defenders their potential indicates they can be (specifically for Wall, JaVale, Booker, and Seraphin). I have no doubt that Booker and probably Wall will become upper echelon defenders eventually. I still think Javale will too as he ages and gets more experience. But we still have yet to reach that point with those three, and likely won't for several more seasons.

Passing could also be an issue for the team since Wall and Crawford are the only really good passers on the team. You'd really need NY and Blatche to do a better job here (unlikely, but not out of the question) plus Kanter and the 2012 SF we draft will both need to pass well.

The contracts will also be a problem in about 4 or 5 years too because most of our players are young guys playing on rookie contracts who'll all be coming up for extensions around the same time.

[ixcuincle]

http://twitter.com/ESPNAndyKatz/statuses/83565615608111106

Kanter is real impressive. Would love to play in Washington with John Wall. But Wizards will need to trade up to 2, 3 or 4 to get him.

[Going Commando]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/30546/latest-draft-buzz-kings-no-7-for-felton

• The Raptors' hiring of Dwane Casey might affect their draft plans. Casey is a defensive specialist, and when he looks at the Raptors' roster, there isn't much to like on that front. GM Bryan Colangelo has built an offensive juggernaut, but defensively, the Raptors are pretty terrible. That might explain why the team is zeroing in on three excellent defenders -- Brandon Knight, Biyombo and Kawhi Leonard -- at No. 5. I've had Jan Vesely going here for weeks, and others have been pushing for Kemba Walker here, but it sounds like neither player is atop the Raptors' board right now.

I think we can rule Kanter off their list if that's the case. That's good news for us. I think we constitute Kanter's floor at 6. I think the Jazz constitute his ceiling at 3. But if the Jazz draft him at 3 I bet they do so in order to move down and get someone they really want.

I think he'll be taken at either 4 or 6. Cleveland is the only other current top 6 team that might want to keep him but if they drafted him at 4, I bet they'd also try and trade him to move down. I think we'll ultimately end up moving to 4 for Kanter.

This was also in there, although none of its new to the thread:

• Larry Bird shot down a rumor that the Pacers and Timberwolves were discussing a Roy Hibbert for the No. 2 pick trade.

"We're not doing that," Bird said at a news conference Tuesday. "I'm not interested in trading Roy. Roy is one of our core group guys."

The Wolves are trying to find a trade partner for the No. 2 pick, but the Pacers' refusal to give up Hibbert for it (and the Wizards' refusal to part ways with JaVale McGee) show just how difficult that task might be. Both Hibbert and McGee were mid-first-round picks.

I think the second overall pick might go for a song.

Finally, according to Ford, it seems like a lot of people are down on Valanciunas because his buyout situation means he can't come over until the 2012-2013 season and teams don't have to wait on him. Ummm, really? Is nobody factoring in the lockout at all?

---------- Post added June-22nd-2011 at 12:14 PM ----------

http://twitter.com/ESPNAndyKatz/statuses/83565615608111106

I don't know. Derrick Williams is clearly going second, two is out of the picture. Utah can't keep Kanter if they draft him at 3 because of Favors, Millsap, and Jefferson. If they draft him it'll be to eventually move him, they might just go in a different direction outright. There seems to be little demand for moving up to 3 and I think we're the only team that's shown enough interest in Kanter to actually move up for him.

Cleveland could take him at four and I think he'll either go 4th or 6th. More likely, Cleveland prefers we swap 4 and 6 with them. Toronto isn't going to take him at 5.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Posted by someone who lives in Turkey.

Enes and his agent just spoke to CNN Turk here in Turkey. Enes was asked about his preference for a particular team to draft him and Wizards were mentioned in the question. He said his agent would talk about the Wizards. Then his agent said that the owner and front office of Wizards are in love with Enes and trying to move up especially for the past two days to draft Enes because they think he won't last to the 6th. He said that the Wizards want to rebuild the team around Wall, Crawford, and Enes.

Edited June 22, 2011 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Dukes and Skins]

Fine by me rebuild around those 3 and add one of the SF's from 2012 and you have something special brewing along with an ultra gifted C in McGee

[pjfootballer]

Trade the 6 and a future 1st (protected) for the 4. Even though next years draft will be better, I'd move up to get this guy. We can keep our first for next year if we are back in the lottery, or we can figure a way to trade a player and move back into the 1st round next year.

Edited June 22, 2011 by pjfootballer

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

• Minnesota had serious discussions Tuesday night about taking Kanter over Williams at No. 2, assuming Irving is off the board. As of late Tuesday, the Timberwolves had Williams slightly ahead of Kanter.

• Utah is deciding among four players at No. 3 with two of them likely not within its reach. If Irving and Williams are indeed gone by the time they come on the clock, the Jazz are leaning toward Kanter over Brandon Knight of Kentucky, but that remains a fluid discussion for management.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/30565/draft-buzz-kanter-at-no-2-kemba-sliding

[Warhead36]

Last minute bluffing.