The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

John absolutely has the ability to be a great defender to match his offensive production.  He did it two years ago.  And Marcin Gortat is not a defensive liability in the interior of the defense.  He's not a great rim protector, but he's a good defender, and that includes him being a solid rim protector.  A team doesn't need more than Marcin Gortat at C to be very good defensively.

I'm not asking for John to be our best defensive player, I'm asking for him to play good defense.  John needs to commit to playing within the scheme and play good team defense.  He's breaking the defense with his lazy play on that end, forcing bad switches by not consistently working through screens and getting shelled by three ball shooters because he's ball watching, abandoning his match up, and drifting into the paint.  His fundamentals are all screwed up too when he's guarding the ball.

John's issues are effort and focus issues.  Both he and Beal have developed some bad habits on D and they needs to clean it up.

[RonArtest15]

Wall wasn't the issue last night.  Even with his 9 TOs. 

[Skin'emAlive]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Marcin Gortat is not a defensive liability in the interior of the defense.  He's not a great rim protector, but he's a good defender, and that includes him being a solid rim protector. 

 

Yes, he is a liability on the interior and is just mediocre as a defender. His offensive reliability at the pick and roll is his redeeming factor ( which was questionable a bit last night... but i digress). Ultimately our defense falls apart on the inside with him in the lineup. Nene covered up most of his deficiencies, be that boxing out, man to man coverage, or switching on defense. Does it not strike you that our defense went from top 5 to the dregs in one year without really any turnover? Or that Nene was the go to crunch time big? This is the NBA now. If you are a big man and cant switch, you are going to be put on a poster. Case in point, check out Steven Adams' game in the playoffs last year. He was absolutely phenomenal. Draymond can switch. Thompson can switch. Davis can switch. Towns can switch. Its a big part of the game now. Its not the end of the world though, because you can still be a great team if you can just put the paint on lockdown and grab boards. But he cant do that particularly well either. Thank God Otto was back there beasting. If there ever was a time to move Marcin, this is the year to do it.

[RonArtest15]

I guess J. Michael said (post game) that brooks has had it with Burke and he's out of the rotation. 

Gortat is a turnstile out there on defense.  Can't wait for Mahinmi to get healthy. 

No NBA team is going to do anything without good rim protection and bigs who can guard multiple positions.  This is one of the reasons why I think the GSW are very flawed. 

[Going Commando]

I think you guys are way off base about Marcin's defense.  It's not the center's job to switch off a center onto a three point shooter who has got his feet set because Wall or Beal didn't fight through the screen.  And is it his fault when he has to recover 12 feet from the rim to close out on a ball handler because his guards gave up the penetration that he's not there to keep the other team's big off the glass?  For a defense to succeed, the guards have to stop the ball on the perimeter.  You can not give up easy penetration and still play good defense.  Dwight Howard was the greatest interior defender of his generation and even he looked bad in Houston because of the horrible defensive play on the perimeter.

And I disagree that a center has to be able to guard all of these perimeter positions to be good nowadays.  Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Roy Hibbert, Joakim Noah, and Marc Gasol were brilliant interior defenders that could really only guard the center position.  In a good defense, the center should not be switching onto small players frequently.  The perimeter player has got to work through screens away from the ball and/or quickly recover to his man when he gets picked off.

[Skin'emAlive]

Marcin is not even close to the league that those 3 are in. Noah and Hibbert are damaged goods and don't count. He routinely gets dominated by them on both sides of the ball. Marc and Howard just did it a few days ago. 

Maybe it's not a centers job to switch. But if u can't do the latter, and u can't switch, you are a liability on the court. 

[RonArtest15]

Not being able to switch OR defend when a 5 goes stretch, makes you a liability on the court.  In today's NBA, you have 7 footers with more range, who have been given the green light to shoot past the arc.  Embiid, Gasol, and now even Brook Lopez fit that mold.  It's a match-up nightmare and will create problems defensively due to how they can now space the floor. 

I completely trust Gortat to defend when someone is trying to back him down, but as far as the other things I mentioned, not so much.  This is exactly why I want Mahinmi to get back.  His rim protection is bordering on elite and he gives us something defensively that Gortat can't. 

[Skin'emAlive]

Next time you watch Miami, Utah, or Memphis play, tell me how often a guard is able to drive to the lane and make a floater. Sure Marcin can defend a big on the block, but that's not really the threat that has killed us every game. It's the drive to the lane followed by an uncontested runner or floater that is just demoralizing. Whiteside, Biyombo, Howard, Thompson, Gobert, and Adams among others would never let that happen consistently. 

Basically, if u trust the big guy to shut down those shots, you can stay at home on your man. If u can't, you end up cheating off to provide more weak side defense looking for strips and steals. 

[RonArtest15]

U guys got me thinking about Nerlens Noel...would be something if the Wizards could trade for him. 

[Skin'emAlive]

Imo, there's only 2 guys on this team you can't punt on. Wall and Otto. I think Morris is another that for the deal he is on, would be very hard to let go, but he's not a deal breaker. He's a great fit. Everyone else is fair game for trade. Noel should fit well here, but what would be the cost to get him? 

[Fergasun]

Let me also respond to last night's game -- based on box score was that Porters best game offensively as a pro?  

[StillUnknown]

2 hours ago, RonArtest15 said:

I guess J. Michael said (post game) that brooks has had it with Burke and he's out of the rotation. 

Gortat is a turnstile out there on defense.  Can't wait for Mahinmi to get healthy. 

No NBA team is going to do anything without good rim protection and bigs who can guard multiple positions.  This is one of the reasons why I think the GSW are very flawed. 

3 games and that man is toast already, showing again that we know more than Ernie Grunfeld. 

 

11 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

Let me also respond to last night's game -- based on box score was that Porters best game offensively as a pro?  

 

most likely. he sneaky with his points, made his jumpshots and even played decent defense when on DeRozan. i'm coming around on Otto's talents, but I'm not certain he's the right fit for this team. paying him would pretty much ensure that Beal will be the only player in the starting 5 that teams will have to respect from 3. There is a lot to like about his game, but he seems to be comfortable with not shooting 3's.

the more you think on it, the more you realize how the roster creation has been ****ed for the next couple of years.

Edited November 3, 2016 by StillUnknown

[Bozo the kKklown]

if this team is out of it come ASG, I think the Wizards should explore trading Wall and Otto. Otto because he expiring. Wall could be a summer trade.

They need to destroy and rebuild. That damn Beal contract is really gonna be a pain in the ass if he dont get it right.

 

But all of this should be done after Ernie is fired.

Edited November 3, 2016 by BenningRoadSkin

[Gamebreaker]

16 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

if this team is out of it come ASG, I think the Wizards should explore trading Wall and Otto. Otto because he expiring. Wall could be a summer trade.

They need to destroy and rebuild. That damn Beal contract is really gonna be a pain in the ass if he dont get it right.

 

But all of this should be done after Ernie is fired.

Well I can assure you none of that will happen, especially that last sentence. Ernie has more job security than anyone in this league apparently. 

[Bozo the kKklown]

1 minute ago, Gamebreaker said:

Well I can assure you none of that will happen, especially that last sentence. Ernie has more job security than anyone in this league apparently. 

its time for people to be honest.

Wall aint a Tier 1 player and is not the guy who will lead you to a title. He can with top notch help, but he not the number 1 guy.

The Wizards need to realize this and try and get a lot for dude. This team is not a title team and wont be. Its not Wall's fault, but its what he is and this team aint built for that. Gotta step back to move forward.

[StillUnknown]

empty stats, streak nullified

 

Wall's assist numbers look even better when you consider he has yet to play with an all-star

[Skin'emAlive]

If we are being Honest, Wall is the second best point guard in the league right now. I watched the Clips game last night, and while CP3 is still top tier, he has lost a step. Its Westbrook then Wall. Irving, Curry, and Lillard are score first combo guards, so i dont really consider them the same. What Wall does for this team, and how he has gotten people shots has been nothing but sensational. He gets to the rim at will, and the only thing stopping him scoring 30 every night is whether or not the refs want to call fouls in the paint, or if Wall is feeling extra generous that night and wants to get everyone involved. On top of that, he is on a team friendly max deal. He is absolutely untradeable.

This brings me back to the point I have been making for a while. The other day I had to check to see if the numbers are matching what my eyes have been seeing for the past 2 years regarding Marcin. I apologize as this would be easier in a spread sheet... bu anyways, here are the stats from the 2014-2015 season and the 2015-2016 season:

2014-2015                                                    2015-2016

Gortat:

1st quarter: 192/322 .596 fg%                      164/290 .566 fg%

2nd quarter: 67/114 .588 fg%                       101/166 .608 fg%

3rd quarter: 142/272 .522 fg%                      115/214 .537 fg%

4th quarter: 36/61 .596 fg%                            52/93 .559 fg%

Otto:

                                                                      113/233 .485 fg%

                                                                      62/154 .403 fg%

                                                                      134/256 .523 fg%

                                                                      52/121 .430 fg%

Beal:

95/219: .434 fg%                                          93/213 .437 fg%

99/207 .478 fg%                                           91/191 .476 fg%

100/223 .448 fg%                                         83/193 .430 fg%  

68/189 .360 fg%                                           89/196 .454 fg%

Wall:

166/352 .472 fg%                                         77/164 .444 fg%

83/204 .407 fg%                                           74/143 .451 fg%  

163/364 .448 fg%                                         77/132 .388 fg%

84/209 .426 fg%                                           70/132 .419 fg%

 

So what does this all mean? Well... it confirms that usually our first quarter is run through Gortat pick and rolls. He shot the second most in 2014, and the most in 2015 during the first quarter. Followed by being completely taken out of the game plan in the 4th quarters. In fact, last year the only player to come even close to his shot attempts in any quarter is Otto Porter (during the 3rd quarter.) Now why is that? Well probably because everyone keeps yelling to get him more involved in the game and they actively try to in the 3rd after 2 quarters of neglect Every Single Time. He also shoots at the second highest percentage of any player on the court not named Marcin! Mean while Wall does from 350+ during the 1st and 3rd quarters of 2014's playoff run, to a paltry 140+ last year. Maybe that had something to do with the injuries, I dont know. But by looking at these numbers one could conclude that perhaps we are

A: Habitual. Shut down Marcin pick and rolls in the 1st and you take him out of the game offensively.

B: Wall should be option number 1 on offense. He should be putting up at least 300 shots in the 1st and 3rd quarters this year.

C: Otto should be a primary weapon far earlier in the game than the 3rd quarter. At the very least, this keeps the other team from gameplanning on Marcin.

D: Beal is the same guy he has always been, and puts up the same numbers as well.

 

 

 

[Rocky21]

Trey Burke 6 minutes played, 3 turnovers and -11.

Thanks a lot dude.   

[Rocky21]

1 hour ago, Fergasun said:

Let me also respond to last night's game -- based on box score was that Porters best game offensively as a pro?  

You made me curious so I looked it up.  You could argue that it was.  (Although he did go off for a 17 / 9 / 4 in the playoffs last year.)    

12/12/15 vs. Dallas 28 points, 6 boards, 3 assists

11/07/15 vs. Atlanta 23 points, 3 rebounds

Last night vs. Toronto 23 points, 13 boards

[Destino]

Porter is at his best when he's cutting and moving his feet around the basket and finding an opening.  Wittman tried to make him into a three and D type of player, but that's just not his game, and it made him look a great deal worse than he is offensively.  The problem is that this team suddenly lacks willing spot up three point shooters.  Our power forward seems to be the only starter interested in taking those shots.  Porter wants the ball closer to the rim, Beal wants to dribble the air out of the ball, and Wall either has the ball or vanishes entirely. 

It's as if this team was constructed by a terrible GM. 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

No kidding Coach Brooks.

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

 

Asked directly about the RFK site, Leonsis at one point said, “I don’t know. All I know right now [is] I’m working my way through a really massive real estate morass, where I’ll eventually own the building.”

Leonsis purchased 100 percent of the Capitals and 44 percent of the Wizards and Verizon Center from the late Abe Pollin in 1999 and acquired the remaining stakes in 2010. Largely because of the unfavorable mortgage, Leonsis said he is now paying $14 million annually in interest and $9 million in principal, as well as maintenance costs that last year totaled $13 million. By comparison, he said, most teams pay rent of $3 million to $4 million to play in municipally owned arenas.

The mortgage costs are a leading factor in what Leonsis estimates will be a loss of $40 million in 2016 for his company, Monumental Sports and Entertainment. But with naming rights for the building set to come available in 2018, and with the mortgage paid five years after that, Leonsis said he expects the company to become profitable eventually.

“No more paying four, five times the rent compared to other teams that we compete with,” he said. “I know that sounds silly. But you’re competing with a team that pays $3 million in rent, and you’re paying $40 million in [building costs] . . . When we finish paying the mortgage, that will right-size the business, and for once we would be advantaged [economically], as opposed to disadvantaged.”

Edited November 3, 2016 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Next time you watch Miami, Utah, or Memphis play, tell me how often a guard is able to drive to the lane and make a floater. Sure Marcin can defend a big on the block, but that's not really the threat that has killed us every game. It's the drive to the lane followed by an uncontested runner or floater that is just demoralizing. Whiteside, Biyombo, Howard, Thompson, Gobert, and Adams among others would never let that happen consistently. 

Basically, if u trust the big guy to shut down those shots, you can stay at home on your man. If u can't, you end up cheating off to provide more weak side defense looking for strips and steals. 

You're making excuses for freelancing.  It's just flat out undisciplined play.  It hurts us.

Where we've been getting killed is on the three point line, not the paint.  Toronto made 10 threes to our 3 and shot 40%.  Memphis made 15 to our 5 and shot 48%.  Atlanta made 12 to our 6 and shot 46%.  This is where we are getting killed.  This is what's demoralizing.  We're giving up 112 points a game because we can't defend the three point line at all.  And that has been a direct result of bad switching and perimeter defense.  There isn't a center in the league that can consistently recover all of the way out to the three point line when his perimeter defenders hang him out to dry on a bad switch.  That's just a simple truth of nature.  I think you're envisioning a fantasy player, Whiteside and Biyombo and Gobert absolutely can't do that.

And I think it's worth repeating that the best defensive centers in the league going back the past 7 or 8 years have been paint-bound plodders like Howard, Jordan, Duncan, Noah, Hibbert, and Gasol.  These guys are not routinely guarding players way out in space.  They patrol the paint.  In fact the rangier players that can handle playing in space like Davis and Noel are not nearly as good of defenders as that first group I mentioned.

And Gortat has a 31% DRB% over the first three games.  That's great work on the defensive glass from your C.  And this is despite the fact he's having to leave the paint to guard way out in space way too often because of the lousy execution from Wall and Beal.

I get the frustration with the defense, I feel extremely frustrated watching their execution.  But you're misdirecting it.  It's a lot easier to blame Gortat than it is to criticize Wall and Beal, but they're the ones most responsible for the issues we've had.

[Going Commando]

16 minutes ago, Destino said:

Porter is at his best when he's cutting and moving his feet around the basket and finding an opening.  Wittman tried to make him into a three and D type of player, but that's just not his game, and it made him look a great deal worse than he is offensively.  The problem is that this team suddenly lacks willing spot up three point shooters.  Our power forward seems to be the only starter interested in taking those shots.  Porter wants the ball closer to the rim, Beal wants to dribble the air out of the ball, and Wall either has the ball or vanishes entirely. 

It's as if this team was constructed by a terrible GM. 

I think there is a lot of truth in this.  I look at the bench and don't see a natural catch and shoot wing player either.  It's one of the reasons I wanted Ryan Anderson this summer, and why I think Ernie needs to make a trade for a spot up shooter on the wing.

Otto is a lot better when he's much more involved in the offense, and he's not a knock down three ball shooter.  Beal can be that guy, but you're wasting most of his offensive creativity in that role.  Thornton is a streaky gunner who plays downhill.  And Buke has never been an off ball player before, you'd be asking him to learn a new role if you moved him to the wing.  Who knows how well Sato can shoot?  At any rate he's a rookie and you can never count on them for great shooting.  Same deal for Oubre, who is still way too inexperienced to be counted on for such a big role.  It takes young players a long time to adjust to NBA speed and range as shooters.  There is no way he and Sato are there yet.  Same deal for House and McClellan.

This team needs a veteran perimeter shooter who you can trust to catch and knock down a three with his feet set.  And I think he needs to be able to play some PG too because I'd envision line ups where Beal leads the second unit just like DeRozan did for Toronto last night.

Jose Calderon??  He's ancient but he can shoot the lights out.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

its time for people to be honest.

Wall aint a Tier 1 player and is not the guy who will lead you to a title. He can with top notch help, but he not the number 1 guy.

The Wizards need to realize this and try and get a lot for dude. This team is not a title team and wont be. Its not Wall's fault, but its what he is and this team aint built for that. Gotta step back to move forward.

I hope you're wrong, but I'm afraid you're right.

I don't really question Wall's talent.  IMO he's the most physically gifted PG in the game.  And he used to play with a ton of heart and he's always been a really smart player.  But I think Wall has picked up some bad habits in his career, I don't think he keeps himself in as good of shape as he needs to, and I don't think he's the kind of self starter that you need for a one star construction.  Someone who can play at a consistently high level for an entire season.

I think Wall has to be in a cast of other high level players with the kind of hunger to be great like Boston had in the Pierce/KG/Allen/Rondo era.

People forget that, before the KG and Allen acquisitions, Pierce was in a pretty similar situation to Wall on some dead end Boston teams.  We think of Pierce as being the perfect competitor now, but he was dogging it on some of those Celtic teams with Ricky Davis.

Anyway, the only way I think you can build a contender here is if you get Blake Griffin or DeMarcus Cousins to come in Free Agency.  Short of that, I'm not sure how you do it.  And even if you got them, you might be able to beat Cleveland, but you wouldn't beat the Warriors.