The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

Hmm, so he was allowed to throw it into the back court? Didn't know that.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Hmm, so he was allowed to throw it into the back court? Didn't know that.

What do you mean? I know the play you're talking about but what didn't you know you could do?

[pjfootballer]

since the beginning of time

The college game is SO much better called. You know, like the game is supposed to be called. I don't know how some of you guys watch the NBA all the time. I mean, it's not the players, it's the ugliness of how the games are called. NBA refs just make the game look cheesy and sloppy. I don't get all their games, but I come into the thread to gauge the game from you guys while I scoreboard watch. The Spurs game with Joey Crawford was enough to make me vomit reading posts in here. Sometimes I think the NBA borders on WWE type sports. Not quite, but almost. And it's a shame because there are some great players playing the game today without the refs bullcrap.

[Going Commando]

Scared the crap out of me when Humphries turned the ball over with 30 seconds left. Just felt like that'd be the play that sparked a sequence for NO to steal it.

We outplayed them the whole night for the most part, but the way the bounces were going, it didn't really feel like it. Winning without the three ball is hard work.

The Professor is my player of the game. He carried us precisely when we needed someone to step up and carry us. Our PG play was a major edge over theirs.

What do you mean? I know the play you're talking about but what didn't you know you could do?

Butler caught the inbounds with one foot in the back court. I thought it'd be a back court violation but apparently Pierce is allowed to inbound the ball to that spot. I'm not sure why, but I guess it's because they advanced the ball up the court through the time out in the final two minutes of the game.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Big boy win.  Solid road trip.

 

Otto is rising...

[Going Commando]

PJ to me the quality of the college game is very sloppy. Very few teams consistently look good in their execution. Just a lot of aimless passing around the perimeter without a purpose to move the ball inside, sloppy dribbling, bad spacing and bad shooting. Also I don't like watching zone defense.

Also I think college refs let hand checking and body checking and a lot of reaching go, especially when teams full court press. Looks like the Pat Riley Knicks, which drives me crazy. College ball handlers aren't good enough to beat that stuff, so it just totally deflates the quality of play.

Edited January 6, 2015 by stevemcqueen1

[Sticksboi05]

PJ to me the quality of the college game is very sloppy. Very few teams consistently look good in their execution. Just a lot of aimless passing around the perimeter without a purpose to move the ball inside, sloppy dribbling, bad spacing and bad shooting. Also I don't like watching zone defense.

Also I think college refs let hand checking and body checking and a lot of reaching go, especially when teams full court press. Looks like the Pat Riley Knicks, which drives me crazy. College ball handlers aren't good enough to beat that stuff, so it just totally deflates the quality of play.

 

Touch fouls are far worse than physical ball. Who seriously wants to watch guys get breathed on and go to the line 10x a game?

 

That said, college ball sucks, especially now when players leave after a year. Back in the day when guys stayed and refined their skills you had great teams and the Tournament was probably much better too. Now it's all about who can jump higher, not who can beat you with their offensive sets.

[Popeman38]

Dione Waiters and Kyrie Irving. The self proclaimed best back court in the NBA.

What was that? Dione Waiters traded to the OKC Thunder as part of three way trade? You don't trade half of the best back court in the NBA....

[TheItalianStallion]

Good win aside from the sloppiness at the end. Good defensive effort.

[pjfootballer]

PJ to me the quality of the college game is very sloppy. Very few teams consistently look good in their execution. Just a lot of aimless passing around the perimeter without a purpose to move the ball inside, sloppy dribbling, bad spacing and bad shooting. Also I don't like watching zone defense.

Also I think college refs let hand checking and body checking and a lot of reaching go, especially when teams full court press. Looks like the Pat Riley Knicks, which drives me crazy. College ball handlers aren't good enough to beat that stuff, so it just totally deflates the quality of play.

 

Sure.  College players aren't going to be as skilled or refined as pros.  I don't think that is a fair comparison.  Just as high school players play won't be as smooth as college.  But that wasn't the point of my post. I'm not sure you read it correctly or I didn't state it well.

 

I wasn't talking about the play of the players.  I was talking about how the games are called.  A college player takes more than two steps, they call walking.  NBA lets players take 3+ steps.  After watching Unibrow take 3 steps, I watched Westbrook take 4 on a dunk. I player in college commits a foul, they call it.  Depending on the player, phantom fouls will occur in the NBA.  We should have had a backcourt violation.  How do 3 guys miss that? I mean, I'm glad they didn't call it, but it should have been called.  I think what gets to me about the NBA is that the refs have ****ized the game into street ball.

 

So, you don't like passing on the perimeter.  That's what I "do" like about college.  All 5 players usually touch the ball on a possession instead of 2 guys playing pick and roll or just lobbing the ball down low while the other 3 players stand around with their thumbs up their asses or when 1 guys just waits until the shot clock gets under 10 and tries to do it all himself.  That's "team" basketball?  Sure zone defensese take away the "athleticism" of some players, but when a good zone works, it's nice trying to see if a coach can actually, you know, coach (something not done in the NBA) and try and break down the zone. 

 

College calls a timeout, they get the ball where they get it.  In the NBA you call a timeout and you get to advance it practically 3/4 court.  What happened to trying to advance the ball the way it is supposed to be?  Advancing the ball was one of the worst things that they did in my opinion.  Again, ****izing the game to create fantasic finishes.  Christian Laettner would like a word with the NBA. Advancing is the worst thing I hate about the NBA.  I mean, when a football team is down late in the game and they have some timeouts, why don't we just let them automatically advance it to midfield.  A baseball team is down by a couple of runs and the batter gets a single.  Why don't we just let him advance to 3rd base?  Abomination to me.

 

A couple of things that I think would help the college game is:

 

1) No more one and done.  2 years minimum.  That not only helps the college game, but it keeps guys who "think" they are ready for the NBA, in one extra year to help refine their skills.

 

2) I'd go with a 30 second shot clock.  Speed the possessions up a bit. 

 

I do agree with you about the hand checking and holding.  When they got rid of that in both the NBA and the holding in the NHL, it made the game a lot smoother.

 

I know I complain a lot about the NBA in here, but to me, it's just so hard to watch when I can see in every game (not just the Wizards) how the refs influence the outcomes of games.  I really wish Silver would clean out the refs and clean up the BS.  It would make the game 100% better.  I have nothing against the players.  It's amazing to watch some of the players and the things they do. I'm not taking away anything from the players as I'd take 4 or 5 steps if they gave it to me to.  But the 2 plays by Davis and Westbrook just had me shaking my head in disgust. Sorry, I see it a different way.  Clean up the refs BS and you take the NBA to another level.

Edited January 6, 2015 by pjfootballer

[JoeWolf990]

The college game is SO much better called. You know, like the game is supposed to be called. I don't know how some of you guys watch the NBA all the time. I mean, it's not the players, it's the ugliness of how the games are called. NBA refs just make the game look cheesy and sloppy. I don't get all their games, but I come into the thread to gauge the game from you guys while I scoreboard watch. The Spurs game with Joey Crawford was enough to make me vomit reading posts in here. Sometimes I think the NBA borders on WWE type sports. Not quite, but almost. And it's a shame because there are some great players playing the game today without the refs bullcrap.

the college game is the definition of cheesy and sloppy. Its why scoring declined so much in that game.

the college game is actually horrible to watch now. Not many players are good ball handlers and post play is gone. (well its gone from American bball in general)

I disagree completely with that.

[Warhead36]

The actual college game is quite poor, but it's entertaining as hell to watch in March because of the drama and excitement of March Madness. You also have rowdier crowds which makes for better atmospheres. NBA crowds are just lame in comparison.

[JoeWolf990]

The actual college game is quite poor, but it's entertaining as hell to watch in March because of the drama and excitement of March Madness. You also have rowdier crowds which makes for better atmospheres. NBA crowds are just lame in comparison.

thats the appeal, really.

And the fact that the game is sloppy, it leads to mistakes and moments of craziness.

But the college game itself is actually quite terrible. I feel its always been that way too. And the refs tend to make it worse.

[pjfootballer]

Again, I'm not talking about the players or the way they play, I'm talking about the way the games are called.

Ah **** it. You guys are so enamoured with the NBA, I'll never be able to make a point.

Yep, you guys are right. I bow down to you and your league. It's just the bestest league ever. Hell, they even love it in China.

Talk to me when the Spurs, Mavs, Heat, Bulls, Thunder, etc are not in the Finals and when we see a Wizards-Warriors type final.

Edited January 6, 2015 by pjfootballer

[Rocky21]

Listen if you told me we'd go 2-3 on the beginning of this brutal road trip I'd take it all day long. 

 

I don't care who you are you aren't going to go in the Spurs and Mavericks' houses and push them around. 

[JoeWolf990]

Again, I'm not talking about the players or the way they play, I'm talking about the way the games are called.

Ah **** it. You guys are so enamoured with the NBA, I'll never be able to make a point.

Yep, you guys are right. I bow down to you and your league. It's just the bestest league ever. Hell, they even love it in China.

Talk to me when the Spurs, Mavs, Heat, Bulls, Thunder, etc are not in the Finals and when we see a Wizards-Warriors type final.

the way the college game is called is pretty terrible. They are influenced by the fans and coaches. They allow almost everything, which leads to slugfests instead of free flowing ball.

We get it, you like the college refs more. Some of us feel the exact opposite.

[Destino]

College basketball is hard to watch. The shot clock is way to damn long and most of possessions are a lot of perimeter dribbling followed by a bricked contested jump shot. Rinse repeat.

thats the appeal, really.

And the fact that the game is sloppy, it leads to mistakes and moments of craziness.

But the college game itself is actually quite terrible. I feel its always been that way too. And the refs tend to make it worse.

It's not that the game is sloppy, it's the single elimination aspect. That creates upsets where the nba format, a 7 game series, is essentially designed to prevent them. Basketball is a bad sport for single elimination because of bad shooting nights but 7 game series also drain the drama of a better team being toppled by a confident underdog.

I'd love the nba has entirely too many games in general, both in the 7 game series and the 82 game regular season. There should be no such thing as a back to back. Also I hate the "well it's ok if we lost two games because those were on the road" BS that arises in the playoffs. Every game should be as close to a must win as possible without single elimination. I'd go all three game series personally, but that will never happen. More games more money.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Destino

[carex]

I believe college basketball wants the upsets.  They could play the game on a computer if they jsut wanted the team that was statistically best

[JoeWolf990]

College basketball is hard to watch. The shot clock is way to damn long and most of possessions are a lot of perimeter dribbling followed by a bricked contested jump shot. Rinse repeat.

yeah, its just not an appealing game at all were it not for what surrounds it.

It's not that the game is sloppy, it's the single elimination aspect. That creates upsets where the nba format, a 7 game series, is essentially designed to prevent them. Basketball is a bad sport for single elimination because of bad shooting nights but 7 game series also drain the drama of a better team being toppled by a confident underdog.

I'd love the nba has entirely too many games in general, both in the 7 game series and the 82 game regular season. There should be no such thing as a back to back. Also I hate the "well it's ok if we lost two games because those were on the road" BS that arises in the playoffs. Every game should be as close to a must win as possible without single elimination. I'd go all three game series personally, but that will never happen. More games more money.

i disagree

I love an 82 game season, although I would find a way to limit and eradicate back to backs.

I would go back to best of 5 in the first round, but the drama of a 7 game series is great to me. Changes in strategy over a series, and shifts in momentum fascinate me.

[pjfootballer]

So, tough Texas tilt we had. We have some winnable games coming up. I was hoping we'd be at 24-10, but 23-11 will due. Still on pace for 55 wins.

[Sticksboi05]

the way the college game is called is pretty terrible. They are influenced by the fans and coaches. They allow almost everything, which leads to slugfests instead of free flowing ball.

We get it, you like the college refs more. Some of us feel the exact opposite.

 

Officiating in the NBA is detestable. Worst of every league because the rules are literally different if you sell a lot of jerseys. If Sidney Crosby trips a guy he is going to the box. Ovechkin has been suspended for hits multiple times. Harden plays under a different set of rules. So does LeBron and Wade etc.

 

That's the biggest problem in the NBA.

[Destino]

The NBA issue isn't officiating as much as it is a vague rule book.  Players, coaches, and fans sure as hell can't tell you what legal defensive position is on a charge.  Most would say defenders feet can't be moving, which is wrong a defender can absolutely be moving.... unless the ref decides that's the case which they often do.  No one knows exactly what legal defensive position is or just how much an offensive player can dip a shoulder into a defender.   

 

Same goes for continuation.  Can anyone tell me when exactly the act of shooting starts?  Again, no one can agree on that so you have refs all over the place.  I can go on and on.  The NBA has rules that are unnecessarily vague and the result in an inconsistent experience. 

 

Also I agree that stars get special treatment and that **** needs to stop.  The media and idiot logic of "fans come to see stars and don't want them fouling out" is dumb.  If you want entertainment go to the theater, if you want competition the rules need to be applied consistently. 

Edited January 7, 2015 by Destino

[Kosher Ham]

The only way to fix that aspect of officiating is to lengthen the games by adding more video replays.

 

It's not going to happen any time soon.

[JoeWolf990]

Officiating in the NBA is detestable. Worst of every league because the rules are literally different if you sell a lot of jerseys. If Sidney Crosby trips a guy he is going to the box. Ovechkin has been suspended for hits multiple times. Harden plays under a different set of rules. So does LeBron and Wade etc.

 

That's the biggest problem in the NBA.

I dig what you are saying, but imagine a whole team getting calls because of the coach on the sideline, or the refs being shook at the insults from the student section, etc.

Its actually a lot worse in the college game. At least NBA games have flow. College games do not.

[Going Commando]

There was a brief discussion about Noel vs Porter on RealGM. Most of that board hated picking Porter over Noel and panned Ernie for that decision. They still do.

I was mildly pro-Porter at the time, felt it was the right decision on draft day. But now with some hindsight, I am so relieved we didn't pick Noel. Early on in that pre-draft process, I said that Noel was something of a moderately wealthy man's Jan Vesely and somebody gave me some crap for that. Then I started to warm up to him, particularly after that 9 block game against Ole Miss where he got like five blocks after picking up his fourth foul. Thought he might have some Joakim Noah in him actually.

Nope, turns out my first instinct was probably right. He is an absolutely wretched offensive player with zero NBA caliber scoring tools. He's a slightly more talented Jan Vesely and there just aren't big minutes in the NBA for a rail thin big that can't really do anything offensively. His biggest opportunity is going to be playing 30 MPG for a horrific Philly team until either Joel Embiid comes back or they move on in a different way.

I'm thinking the only way Nerlens Noel ever became Joakim Noah is if he'd played for a coach like Billy Donovan for four years. The kid was not at all ready for the NBA, and we'd already be considering him a bust if he hadn't been shielded from that discussion by missing all of last season.

Porter is such a better player than him. He'll have a chance to be a good starter on a good team while Noel will probably bust.

Now Alex Len though, that's the guy proving me wrong. We knew his ceiling was awesome, I just didn't think he'd realistically reach it. He might yet end up being the best and most valuable player from that top ten.