nuposse87 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Agree that Wall is better in all aspects besides shooting; but disagree that he is a better defender. Wall is one of the worst defenders in the NBA...him and Crawford (who is probably the worst defender in the entire NBA) are both revolving doors. They are horrible on the defensive side. What exactly do you have to back up this claim? 1st season wall was a decent help defender...below average man defender. I thought he made monument strides last season. The problem was, for the first half to the season he was playing with bigs and players that were awful in pick and roll defense and had no concept of rotating correctly. We were an above average defense after the all star break I believe, top ten with Nene...sample size of only like 11 games with nene but thats trending in the right direction. Walls issues are all fixed with either a mid range jumper or a 3 pt jumper. Thats the only thing seperating him from being an all star and locking us into a playoff spot. I fully believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Bait Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 What exactly do you have to back up this claim? 1st season wall was a decent help defender...below average man defender. I thought he made monument strides last season. The problem was, for the first half to the season he was playing with bigs and players that were awful in pick and roll defense and had no concept of rotating correctly. We were an above average defense after the all star break I believe, top ten with Nene...sample size of only like 11 games with nene but thats trending in the right direction. Walls issues are all fixed with either a mid range jumper or a 3 pt jumper. Thats the only thing seperating him from being an all star and locking us into a playoff spot. I fully believe that. What I have to back up this claim is that I'm a season ticket holder....so If I'm not at the game (seeing the whole court and able to focus in on one player at all times....like Wall...when the rest of you are watching who has the ball on TV) I'm watching on TV.....I don't miss a game. Wall has all the tools to be an elite defender. He is the quickest player on the team; he is aggressive, a willing defender (unlike Gilbert), and he has the strength and athleticism......BUT as of right now and what I've seen in his first two years, he is a HORRIBLE defender. Nene is no all defensive guy either....he isn't terrible and understands how to defend a pick n' roll (unlike Mcgee) but he is slightly above average at best. Okafor and Ariza are the real game changers. Okafor is an elite post defender/rebounder and Ariza is an elite perimeter defender. This will rub off on the rest of the team. Having two elite defenders (one on the perimeter and one on the block) will benefit the rest of the team and really improve team defense. I'm excited to see the improvement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 What I have to back up this claim is that I'm a season ticket holder....so If I'm not at the game (seeing the whole court and able to focus in on one player at all times....like Wall...when the rest of you are watching who has the ball on TV) I'm watching on TV.....I don't miss a game.Ah so seeing how he defends in person differs from what I see on TV...Cause you know there is a drastic difference in what you see in person and TV. I don't miss many wizards games either, prolly less than 10 in the past 3 years. I'm going to go ahead and call BS on that you're able to see something none of us can see on the CSN broadcast, i've been to my share of wizards games, I don't consider it THAT different. At the end of the day seeing how the team plays holistically matters the most, no? Wall has all the tools to be an elite defender. He is the quickest player on the team; he is aggressive, a willing defender (unlike Gilbert), and he has the strength and athleticism......BUT as of right now and what I've seen in his first two years, he is a HORRIBLE defender. Again, there is no objective argument in here...he was below average his first year, but his Man D was way better last year. As I explained any deficiencies he had was also due in part to poor BBiq and rotating. I'm not trying to be dickish, but I just don't see Wall as a horrible defender, he has had his "WTF" moments but defense certainly hasn't bee his Achilles heel Nene is no all defensive guy either....he isn't terrible and understands how to defend a pick n' roll (unlike Mcgee) but he is slightly above average at best. Okafor and Ariza are the real game changers. Okafor is an elite post defender/rebounder and Ariza is an elite perimeter defender. This will rub off on the rest of the team. Having two elite defenders (one on the perimeter and one on the block) will benefit the rest of the team and really improve team defense. I'm excited to see the improvement! Regarding Nene, he isn't a great defender, but he's a decent enough anchor that knows how to play the team concept well enough. You don't need to have an defensive MVP candidate to be a good defensive team, you just need 8-9 guys that bust their ass. Okafor is an average NBA center, above average defense...but mediocre in other aspects. Ariza is a good defender...but to say he is great is stretching it. I'd prefer if Ariza actually never got any playing time. He is so bad offensively his impact is negated by his ineptitude. Our best defensive lineup most likely will be: Wall Wester Singleton Jan Mek If' we're up a possession at the end of a game, thats the line up I want to see on the floor, maybe substitute booker with okafor depending on how big the opposing team plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I have never been less excited about this team. Just a roster full of crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Agree that Wall is better in all aspects besides shooting; but disagree that he is a better defender. Wall is one of the worst defenders in the NBA...him and Crawford (who is probably the worst defender in the entire NBA) are both revolving doors. They are horrible on the defensive side. Kyrie is a worse defender than Wall. Thats not even worth questioning. I think Wall will improve somewhat with Okafor behind him instead of Javale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 over/under how long before we are discussing the draft? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Houston waived Shaun Livingston, I'd rather have him here than Pargo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I have never been less excited about this team. Just a roster full of crap. I'm the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 over/under how long before we are discussing the draft? lol We should be now. This team is going to be bottom 5 again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Houston waived Shaun Livingston, I'd rather have him here than Pargo. absofrigginlutely he isn't great..not even good...but at least a stop gap until Wall is healthy. Ernie would be wise to cut pargo now. Bottom 5 is stretching it, if the team doesn't turn the corner for the better we'll finish in the 7-10 range...enough to screw us over from getting a game changer in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 absofrigginlutelyhe isn't great..not even good...but at least a stop gap until Wall is healthy. Ernie would be wise to cut pargo now. Bottom 5 is stretching it, if the team doesn't turn the corner for the better we'll finish in the 7-10 range...enough to screw us over from getting a game changer in the draft. a game changer is available in the draft once every couple of years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Wall is a vocal leader and has received nothing but praise about his leadership qualities from everyone who has interacted with him. That includes both his time at Kentucky and his time in Washington.You're overstating how often Crawford ran point and Wall played off the ball. I remember those plays too, and the purpose of them wasn't to try and remove Wall from the equation, but to get him easier shots. I think you've swung too far against Wall. You're letting your frustration cloud your sense of the team. I've always been of the opinion that leadership is obvious if given time to observe. I haven't seen Wall leading anything but I've certainly heard coaches talk about what a wonderful leader he is. I think it stinks like wishful thinking. No offense, but that would be ridiculous and counterproductive. Wall is a playmaker and our best offensive creator and a Wall drive is one of the most effective shots in the NBA. He gets to the line at a tremendous rate, he creates room for teammates, and he puts pressure on a defense. We'd make ourselves immediately worse by doing what you suggest and probably wreck his confidence in the process. The model for developing Wall is very clearly in Chicago. Wall creates space for who and where? Typically for shooters away from the basket. The problem with that is obvious, this team doesn't have the greatest shooters. While he does get to the line he doesn't have a higher PPS than Nene or Okafor. Beal was brought in precisely to be a shooter and the preseason offense looked like it was designed to create open looks. I think that it's reasonable to want Wall closer to 7-9 shots per game instead of >13 territory. If at some point he adds a pull up jump shot or a spot up shot to his blinding speed and variety of angry faces I'm sure they will be taken advantage of. Point is he needs to learn off the court, like everyone else. ---------- Post added October-29th-2012 at 05:32 PM ---------- I have never been less excited about this team. Just a roster full of crap. On paper they are miles ahead of last season. Well... they will be once Nene, Wall, and Seraphin come back from injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 a game changer is available in the draft once every couple of years I believe anyone drafted in the top 3 should be viewed as a franchise caliper player...it doesn't always turn out that way...but that is my expectation going in. I expect them to change the fortunes of w/e franchise. Phenoms are once every 3-5 years. Get what I mean? If we're drafting between 6-10, we're most likely getting someone who won't have franchise caliper impact. At least in my view of the lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) I have never been less excited about this team. Just a roster full of crap. +1 I am at an all time low point and the season has not even started yet. No one on this team excites me right now. Maybe when Wall comes back, but even then . . . . this roster so uninspiring. How soon things change. When Ted bought the team I couldn't have been more excited. I was on board for a rebuild. Even a long one. But, I don't see what our plan is at all. The minute he extended Ernie he lost me forever. I overrated his ownership greatly. He is a thin skinned idiot who made his fortune running AOL into the ground. /rant Alright, feeling better. I will still watch every game I can down here and hope that they prove me wrong. Edited October 29, 2012 by Duckus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Agree that Wall is better in all aspects besides shooting; but disagree that he is a better defender. Wall is one of the worst defenders in the NBA...him and Crawford (who is probably the worst defender in the entire NBA) are both revolving doors. They are horrible on the defensive side. Both are still better than Kyrie though. Kyrie actually is the worst defender in the NBA as rated by Synergy Sports--so bad he was getting subbed out of games for Ramon Sessions for defensive purposes. As bad as he is, John still does at least two things well defensively. He is good at getting strip steals and he is a pretty terrific transition defender. ---------- Post added October-29th-2012 at 07:02 PM ---------- Kyrie is a worse defender than Wall. Thats not even worth questioning.I think Wall will improve somewhat with Okafor behind him instead of Javale Plus it just takes a while for most to figure out how to defend. Some guys get it in time. I think Wall will. He's got good instincts and tons of natural talent and he is competitive enough to play defense. Kyrie's problems are that he just didn't know what to do on that end of the court at all. He's got a great BBall IQ that you see on the offensive end. Didn't help him play defense last year, you could see how playing limited time in college was an issue. Likewise Chris Singleton was pretty weak on defense last year too after being a brilliant college defender. It's just hard to play D and not many guys have it figured out early on. ---------- Post added October-29th-2012 at 07:11 PM ---------- 37 wins is my prediction. The front court is too good to finish at the top of the draft order. We've got four good bigs IMO. A team like that can only lose so many games. Plus Singleton and Vesely should show some strides on the glass and on the defensive end. But Wall's knee worries me. This team won't hit .500 if he misses a ton of time, and I'm worried this issue might linger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argentina_redskins Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Been a Wizards fan since moving to the US, about 8 seasons or so. This is probably the worst roster ever put together in DC. The starting 5 tomorrow make me want to throw up - I have no idea how anyone could be predicting playoffs for this team. I'll still root for them, but I just don't see how this team is anything but a bottom 7 team in the league. Ernie Grunfeld is the worst GM in the NBA and I still don't understand how they kept him. Edited October 30, 2012 by argentina_redskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Been a Wizards fan since moving to the US, about 8 seasons or so. This is probably the worst roster ever put together in DC. The starting 5 tomorrow make me want to throw up - I have no idea how anyone could be predicting playoffs for this team. I'll still root for them, but I just don't see how this team is anything but a bottom 7 team in the league. Ernie Grunfeld is the worst GM in the NBA and I still don't understand how they kept him. the roster Wall had his rookie year is actually worse, but this is pretty bad. I dont see playoffs for this group either especially with Wittman as the coach, but I would love to be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 The past two rosters were much worse IMO. This team actually has a handful of quality NBA players on it. Not just a handful of developmental players and a bunch of scrubs like the last two. People are sleeping on Nene, Okafor, Booker, and Seraphin IMO. That's actually a solid group of bigs. A lot of teams have it worse than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 The past two rosters were much worse IMO. This team actually has a handful of quality NBA players on it. Not just a handful of developmental players and a bunch of scrubs like the last two. People are sleeping on Nene, Okafor, Booker, and Seraphin IMO. That's actually a solid group of bigs. A lot of teams have it worse than that. This years team might not offer as many young players to watch with curiosity but its certainly more capable and accomplished. Now the monstrosity that will face the Cavs because to injury is another story. Price - Beal - Webster - Booker - Okafor Not exciting. I hope Uncle Drew has a bad night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Wiz one of 3 games tonight Good luck lads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Wiz one of 3 games tonightGood luck lads We'll need it considering the injury situation but I must admit that I'm excited to see some basketball again. 3rd pick Bradly Beal going up against 4th pick Dion Waiters in tonight's game. Other rookies playing tonight: Tyler Zeller (Cavs) and Jared Sullinger (Celtics). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 This years team might not offer as many young players to watch with curiosity but its certainly more capable and accomplished. Now the monstrosity that will face the Cavs because to injury is another story. Price - Beal - Webster - Booker - Okafor Ariza's starting per various sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Ariza's starting per various sources. I just saw that. The guy isn't the second best SF in the preseason and looks entirely disinterested but he gets the starting spot. Culture change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Ariza's starting per various sources. Nothing to do with play either because he was absolutely horrendous. What exactly has changed with this team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 Nothing to do with play either because he was absolutely horrendous.What exactly has changed with this team? Not much as far as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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