The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[MonkFan8]

This team is 1-4 since the trade. Now the 2nd worst team in the league.

Moral victories are for losers.

They're actually 2-8, basically in line with how they've been the entire season. The trade isn't going to suddenly put them in playoff contention. You won't find anyone here claiming that (you'll still believe it, though).

Furthermore, as I posted last night, that stretch of games came with 2 back to backs as well as a back-to-back-to-back stretch of games AND against 5 playoff teams. We were competitive in all but 2 games.

I really don't understand what you're even arguing. The point of the trade wasn't to make us better in the short term, it was addition by subtraction that also netted us a very good center. Moral victory or not this is a bad team and no single trade can change that. Too bad Ernie didn't realize you can't win with a core of dumb players sooner.

[No Excuses]

I really don't understand what you're even arguing. The point of the trade wasn't to make us better in the short term, it was addition by subtraction that also netted us a very good center. Moral victory or not this is a bad team and no single trade can change that. Too bad Ernie didn't realize you can't win with a core of dumb players sooner.

Read everything written by Ted and everything said by Ernie. You can think this trade was not done to improve the team short term, but it absolutely was. You don't bring in 60 million in salary of an aging player and not expect the team to get better.

This trade was done for two reasons:

1. Short sighted improvement.

2. Ernie had to do something about a completely pathetic team that he built so he found the two easiest targets on the team to ship away (he tried Blatche as well but nobody wants him). The only problem is that Young and McGee (unlike Blatche) can contribute in their own ways to an NBA team. It's entirely possible that we could have brought in outside help, while keeping both on the team and shifting them to roles better suited for them. We shipped out one player for basically crap, and the other for a big contract.

Now I understand that they didn't want Javale on the team anymore. Fine. Let him walk in FA. It's not hard to play out 30 more games. But bringing in Nene and his big contract means that they thought they are bringing in a player who will help this team short term. Except that he really won't and in a short amount of time, he'll start declining. Once big men start declining, it's usually pretty rapid.

At the same time, and you can bump this post up in two years, McGee will be a productive NBA center and Nene will not be playing up to his contract. I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong. I see this trade in the same light as almost every move Ernie makes; short sighted, knee jerk reactionary, almost always a consequence of his own past stupidity.

Edited March 28, 2012 by No Excuses

[Going Commando]

It all depends on what you mean by pure point guard. To me that's Chris Paul / Steve Nash and Wall isn't anything like them. They have the handles to weave around and linger in traffic demanding attention before either passing or shooting from anywhere on the court. Wall doesn't seem to have great ball control or the ability to function in traffic, he starts on the perimeter and charges in... That's his move. Nash and Paul go under the basket weave back out and around all while keeping their dribble alive.

Walls movement is like Wesbrooks but with far less physicality at the rim but better passing and vision. They are both players that lean forward and fly but get in trouble when slowed before getting to the rim.

Paul and Nash, are very different scorers in and of themselves. To me, Nash is a pure shooter who gets his points from mid range and behind the three point line.

Paul has always been more of a slasher who gets into the lane and has a command of a wide variety of advanced finishing moves to score with either hand. He came into the league a great ball handler with a superb offensive range but has gotten much better over time. Plus Paul became a good shooter in his third season--but the three pointer and mid range game were not part of his game initially.

I see Wall as somewhere in between the Paul school and the Westbrook school. He's more finesse than Westbrook, more physical than Paul, and is somewhere between them in passing ability.

[Skin'emAlive]

He's immature and didn't take his position here seriously. He was unmotivated to put in the work to be able to carry a bad team night in and night out with high quality individual play.

McGee was never going to turn the lightswitch on here, maybe he does somewhere else with strong veteran leadership to bring him in hand, but it was never happening here. He was the veteran leadership for us... hence why we were terrible and couldn't improve. The only hope for keeping him and having him turn the corner was if we somehow minimized his role by surrounding him with several good players. That wasn't going to happen.

Ok, i agree with most of everything you post here. Most of it is quite well thought out and has tangible points. But here you are pointing out exactly what i was saying but with an entirely different perspective. McGee was putting up quality play night in and night out. He just so happened to have dumb plays here and there that everyone wanted to point out and say " HAHA look how dumb he is!" Nobody look at the fact that he is a young center who is second in the league in blocks, and is averaging a double double on a team that cant score.

Why is it that we will never have a strong veteran leadership here? This is a HUGE flaw with the management of the team, not mcgee himself. If a team has trouble with immaturity issues, and character flaws, usually that team will go out and get some veteran leaders to help steer them in the right direction. We went out and got Mo Evans ( benched, never plays), Turiaf ( injured, traded) , Roger Mason Jr ( benched most of the season ). The rest of the kids are young and stupid for the most part. That is not McGee's fault. That is the management. Who were our great veterans last year? What would OKC be without Collison/Perkins last year? You can have a young team, but you need some leadership from somewhere.

[Going Commando]

Trade deadline trades are never really intended to be a short term fix. Trade deadline trades basically never have an immediate impact on wins and losses. That's true for the top organizations on down to the bottom ones.

The trade got a quality starting center out of two players who were going to walk for nothing in the offseason. Nene's big contract doesn't really bother me because we have nothing else to spend that kind of money on for the first several seasons of his deal. We don't have players of our own up for extension that are worth large contracts and we have no hope of bringing in upper tier free agents.

As a bad team, our fate is to overpay on our own free agent signings or miss out. An FA the caliber of Nene wouldn't sign here--his contract only ensures that we have a good starting center locked up long term when our only other feasible option was paying similar money to JaVale or moving forward with no starting caliber Center. Both are worse options. JaVale's impending RFA status forced our hand.

We needed a Center, we got a better player who is better for the locker room out of two players who were going to walk this offseason. We essentially got something good out of nothing. Who do you think we need to ear mark Nene's cap room for that this deal is such a burden?

[Skin'emAlive]

I will go on record to say that if we dont make some serious moves this offseason (beyond getting rid of grunfeild), Wall will never succeed here; culture change or not. This does not count our (probable 5th) pick in the draft. We need to do something with the dead weight on this team. Blatche, Lewis, Evans all should be gone. We need atleast one other quality starter on this team. If we replace those 3 with the likes of Cook, or draft picks, im going to hurl. That is throwing in the towel for the season right there. Crawford, Singleton, Vesely, and Seraphin are not starters nor will they ever be. They are only great off the bench at best.

---------- Post added March-27th-2012 at 11:02 PM ----------

Who do you think we need to ear mark Nene's cap room for that this deal is such a burden?

I really wanted us to go after Josh Smith next season with that money. That combined with our new draft pick in the offseason and McGee and Wall, or Seraphin/Turiaf and Wall would have competed.

[No Excuses]

Who do you think we need to ear mark Nene's cap room for that this deal is such a burden?

Don't know, and you never do in these situations. Opportunities to make an impact signing/trade can be quite random in the NBA. You think the Clippers (the freakin Clippers btw) imagined that they'd be able to have Chris Paul pair up with Blake Griffin? No, but the opportunity came up and they did it.

It's better to be prepared rather than making short sighted reactionary trades.

And I'll say this again, this is nothing new for Ernie. He bails himself out every single time his job is in jeopardy by making a short sighted move. People and local media take the bait every single time.

Edited March 28, 2012 by No Excuses

[Destino]

This offseason we have Rashard Lewis' expiring contract and Trevor Booker as trade assets. Lewis' deal could get us an overpaid vet. Booker would probably be more valuable to keep. I don't see much free agency movement happening that brings in big names. Everyone good is restricted.

[No Excuses]

I don't think Booker has significant trade value. He's a really good back up big man. I can't imagine a scenario in which we get something back in return that is worth trading him

[Kosher Ham]

Vishal they have been bumbling for decades.

Juwan Howard ? $100M contract ? Arenas the same ? That is just crazy.

Bogues and Bol ? Were they trying to be the globetrotters ? Again crazy.

I would love for the hometown team to be successful at some point again. But they are managed poorly and have been for quite some time. They do what the Clippers used to do. If not for the expense in comparison to go to a Lakers game, I believe the Clippers would have folded years ago.

I have been to Georgetown games with better attendance. That is sad.

You can't keep giving me garbage year after year and expect me to spend the type of money it costs on a regular basis, to see the team get slaughtered. At least Dan is trying to make the product better. He is going to get some rings. I wish he owned the Wizards for the sake of their fans. At least Dan gives you hope even when he screws up.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Kosher Ham

[Going Commando]

This offseason we have Rashard Lewis' expiring contract and Trevor Booker as trade assets. Lewis' deal could get us an overpaid vet. Booker would probably be more valuable to keep. I don't see much free agency movement happening that brings in big names. Everyone good is restricted.

If we get a PF early in the draft, we need to trade either Booker or Vesely. IMO, they're competing for the same spot. Neither can really play SF nor C. Seraphin and Nene are pretty much locking down the other prominent roles in the front court and the lottery pick PF would need to start day one.

Vesely has higher potential and I'd bet he's got lower trade value today. Might make sense to deal Booker in that regard.

I'm souring on the idea of taking Brad Beal in the top five. I liked him more when his value was in the steal range and I think the top five is a reach for a two guard that can't create his own offense. No one on Florida can. That was painfully clear in the loss to Louisville.

Beal is a nice player because of all of the various things he does well: strong frame with good athleticism, great IQ, good three point shooter that can spot up and provide a high quality outlet for Wall, productive defender, solid passer, etc.

But to me, none of those things are as valuable as a player who can create for himself and score in the paint in traffic at an efficient rate.

Roger Mason is a productive spot up shooter who can come off screens and drain 3s...

These types of players are really common in the NBA and come cheap like Mason did. It's probably the most common offensive skill set that can be developed.

I want a wing who can put the ball on the floor and get himself buckets. Right now, Jordan Crawford is our only player who can do that and most of the people here don't think much of him. We're better off taking a PF then Beal in the top five and then trading to get back into the first and target someone like Austin Rivers or Quincy Miller. If we want a pure shooter who can't score off of anything but assisted buckets, better to trade back into the mid to late first and take Terrence Ross than overdraft Beal.

This is my current wishlist:

1.) Davis

2.) MKG

3a.) Robinson

3b.) McAdoo

5.) Sully

If the pick is a PF, then trade back into the first and take Rivers or Miller.

---------- Post added March-28th-2012 at 03:56 PM ----------

I think James McAdoo and John Henson are both superior prospects to Harrison Barnes. I think all three are superior to PJIII. I would rather draft Quincy Miller than PJIII.

I think the difference in value between Austin Rivers and Beal is not nearly as large as it's currently being made out. I think Rivers has advanced scoring skills that would make him a strong ROTY candidate and 18-20 PPG scorer year one.

---------- Post added March-28th-2012 at 04:02 PM ----------

I think Robinson fairly quickly becomes one of the best rebounders in the NBA and has more Kevin Love to him than people give him credit for because he's such a good athlete. The motor, the hands, and the natural instincts are there.

I think Davis becomes the special defender people see today, and has a KG like career arc in front of him.

I think MKG is the one true potential bonafide star wing in this class with an All Around game that screams rich man's Gerald Wallace. He's an odd mix between Wallace, DWade, and Tyreke Evans IMO except he's bigger and stronger than all of them.

---------- Post added March-28th-2012 at 04:05 PM ----------

As a point of comparison between Davis and KG, KG probably stood a little taller when he came into the league at 6'11, but was every bit as slender at 217 pounds.

[RonArtest15]

McAdoo makes no sense (agree w. your other players tho...but I'd have Beal in that top-5). We can't afford any more projects on this roster. We need guys (draft picks) who can step right in and start/contribute.

[Going Commando]

Did you all know Shaq measured 7'1 and 303 pounds with a 7'7 wingspan as a rookie in 1992? I didn't realize he was so heavy even then. I wonder how much he weighed during the Lakers years?

[Destino]

Steve you've given up on Vesely as a SF? (I still can't believe a guy with no handles or jump shot was ever CONSIDERED for the position)

[Going Commando]

McAdoo makes no sense (agree w. your other players tho...but I'd have Beal in that top-5). We can't afford any more projects on this roster. We need guys (draft picks) who can step right in and start/contribute.

That's McAdoo. He's probably got the most advanced offensive skills of any of the potential PFs in this class other than Sullinger. He's from the Tim Duncan school of bigs that just know how to play.

He's a far better long term prospect than either Barnes or Henson IMO, and the only reason he hasn't been getting burn is because those two are in front of him and have seniority. If he goes back to school, he's easily a top five pick next year.

Beal should go somewhere 6-9 IMO. He's just not a good enough ball handler and potential difference maker on offense to have the kind of star upside a top five pick should have. For him to become a star, he'd have to become the second coming of Ray Allen or Reggie Wayne as a shooter IMO. I like his mental makeup, his court awareness, his rebounding and his defensive potential. That's why I'd take him outside of those top five guys. But from a team building perspective, we need wings that can score, not just shoot, to take offensive pressure of Wall because, simply put, I'm not sure Wall is good enough to carry the load offensively on his own. That's why I think it'd be better to get a PF and target a wing that might be less talented than Beal overall, but can be had later and offers a better offensive fit.

---------- Post added March-28th-2012 at 04:18 PM ----------

Steve you've given up on Vesely as a SF? (I still can't believe a guy with no handles or jump shot was ever CONSIDERED for the position)

I think it's clear that his NBA future is at PF. He's been getting all of his minutes at PF and C.

It's not just the lack of shooting and handles that pigeon hole him. Vesely is the longest player on the team by far, a legit 6'11, and he towers over most of his opponents. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that at his size, and with his rebounding ability, he was ever considered at SF. Probably a testament to his quickness and ability to stay in front of wings.

[Destino]

With the current regime I don't expect Vesely to ever reach his upside. If he adds muscle he'll be a decent rotation player at the 4 or 5. If we get a GM that knows what he's doing and turns this disaster into a professional franchise I think Vesely could eventually start and be a damn good contributor at any position in the front court depending on what he focuses on.

[Going Commando]

Sure. I don't know that anyone here will reach their full potential with the current regime in place. There is still too little accountability, and I think the quality of teaching our players receive has been low.

We need a coach that can put together a high quality pick and roll offense with the pieces we've got. That's what they're suited for in the half court.

We have players with good heads that want to learn. I don't think Wall cares about anything other than basketball. He's got a very mediocre skill level in terms of ball handling and finishing at the rim though, particularly for someone whose offensive game is entirely built around this. As much as I want to see him improve defensively and improve his ability to pull up and shoot from range, I want to see him become a craftier and better finisher even more. I wish John had DWade's skill level and his smarts. He'd be an incredible offensive player if he did.

So I want to get some coaches that can teach him to be like that. Who taught Russell Westbrook and helped him make the leap as a scorer? I want the Wizards to go after a guy like that.

We should get a new GM and HC, and with Ernie's contract set to expire and no offer on the table, it might very well happen. Someone out of the San Antonio or OKC organizations would be my preference. It can't be that hard to lure an up and coming young executive in the vein of Sam Presti here once we commit to moving on from Grunfeld. A new guy would have a transcendent PG talent to work around, arguably a top 5 center in the East, plus a lot of quality young role players, and a good amount of cap room once Rashard gets bought out. That's a lot better than starting from scratch--better than the situation Presti himself walked into his first year in Seattle. Too bad we can't poach him.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Fwiw, the McDonald's All-American game will be airing on ESPN at 9:30PM

[Going Commando]

Fwiw, the McDonald's All-American game will be airing on ESPN at 9:30PM

Cool. Thanks for the heads up.

Hopefully we won't be picking high again next year, but it's always nice to see these guys play.

---------- Post added March-28th-2012 at 07:28 PM ----------

Adonis Thomas said he's going back to school. http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-03-28/memphis-adonis-thomas-to-return-for-sophomore-season

I liked him.

James McAdoo is pondering the NBA: http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-03-28/james-michael-mcadoo-pondering-nba-move-north-carolina-tar-heels

I really hope he declares. I like him as a prospect and wouldn't hesitate to take him in the top five as I start to sour a little on some of the other top tier guys in this class. It's cool that he's from Norfolk. He's also got some pretty fantastic blood lines going for him.

---------- Post added March-28th-2012 at 07:39 PM ----------

What do you all think about PJ Hairston if he decides to declare? I'm not crazy about his ability to create for himself but as a pure shooter later in the first round, I think he could be really valuable.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I would be open to snagging Hairston if we could acquire an additional first round pick.

We definitely need some 3-point snipers on this team.

In fact, I'm going to put together a list of pure shooters who might be available in the 2nd rd or go undrafted.

[RonArtest15]

That's McAdoo. He's probably got the most advanced offensive skills of any of the potential PFs in this class other than Sullinger. He's from the Tim Duncan school of bigs that just know how to play.

He's a far better long term prospect than either Barnes or Henson IMO, and the only reason he hasn't been getting burn is because those two are in front of him and have seniority. If he goes back to school, he's easily a top five pick next year.

Beal should go somewhere 6-9 IMO. He's just not a good enough ball handler and potential difference maker on offense to have the kind of star upside a top five pick should have. For him to become a star, he'd have to become the second coming of Ray Allen or Reggie Wayne as a shooter IMO. I like his mental makeup, his court awareness, his rebounding and his defensive potential. That's why I'd take him outside of those top five guys. But from a team building perspective, we need wings that can score, not just shoot, to take offensive pressure of Wall because, simply put, I'm not sure Wall is good enough to carry the load offensively on his own. That's why I think it'd be better to get a PF and target a wing that might be less talented than Beal overall, but can be had later and offers a better offensive fit.

---------- Post added March-28th-2012 at 04:18 PM ----------

I think it's clear that his NBA future is at PF. He's been getting all of his minutes at PF and C.

It's not just the lack of shooting and handles that pigeon hole him. Vesely is the longest player on the team by far, a legit 6'11, and he towers over most of his opponents. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that at his size, and with his rebounding ability, he was ever considered at SF. Probably a testament to his quickness and ability to stay in front of wings.

You can't put McAdoo and Duncan in the same sentence. Duncan left WF as one of the most polished bigs in the history of college hoops. Not to mention that as a Freshman, he was absolutely dominant. There is no comparison between the two. As a matter of fact, I don't even know where you came up with the "tim duncan school of bigs that know how to play." LOLOL. McAdoo has upside. I'll give you that. However, saying he's a better prospect over Barnes/Henson is a bit silly. FWIW, McAdoo is a top5 pick next year because of the drop off in talent between the 2012 class and the 2013 class. There's a reason why everyone thinks Moe Harkless would be a lock for the lottery next year, and is a fringe 1st rounder this year.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Any thoughts on Jeremy Lamb?

[StillUnknown]

Any thoughts on Jeremy Lamb?

I only take him if we were to acquire an extra pick later in the lottery. Even then it would depend on who's still on the board.

That windmill dunk he did at the end of his last game stained him to me.

I really hope McAdoo goes back to school, he's not ready for the NBA just yet. I don't see him as being ready to contribute in anyway day 1. Drafting McAdoo puts us closer to having a very high pick in next years draft.

Edited March 28, 2012 by StillUnknown

[SuperBash]

Dream draft, not including Davis since its not happening, MKG/John Jenkins/Crowder

[MonkFan8]

Read everything written by Ted and everything said by Ernie. You can think this trade was not done to improve the team short term, but it absolutely was. You don't bring in 60 million in salary of an aging player and not expect the team to get better.

What do you expect them to say? It's Ted's job to sell his product. He said good things about Flip just weeks before he was fired. It was done to improve the team, and in my opinion we're already seeing the benefits of it over the 10 games we've played. It's just not likely to have a significant impact on our overall record until the team learns how to play with a legitimate center in the half court set (either Nene or Seraphin, to be honest).

This trade was done for two reasons:

1. Short sighted improvement.

2. Ernie had to do something about a completely pathetic team that he built so he found the two easiest targets on the team to ship away (he tried Blatche as well but nobody wants him). The only problem is that Young and McGee (unlike Blatche) can contribute in their own ways to an NBA team. It's entirely possible that we could have brought in outside help, while keeping both on the team and shifting them to roles better suited for them. We shipped out one player for basically crap, and the other for a big contract.

It was done because neither played had a future on this team and EG opted to get something for them rather than nothing. It's that simple.

Nene's value goes beyond his on court production. His charisma, intelligence and leadership should be crucial going forward. It's completely irrelevant to me if McGee or Young go on to have great NBA careers. McGee will likely continue to put up the same numbers and flashy plays in Denver, but I wouldn't put money on him learning to play the game properly.