The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

20 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

LBK claims he has a list on his desktop, but I think everyone deserves a chance to repent on their own first : )

 

Every real Wizards fan has proposed a Wall trade at some point in the last 8 years.  There is no bigger Wall stan than me and I've proposed Wall trades before.  It's part of being a die hard.

What's infuriating though is when we turn on the players when they get hurt, or when we forget how good they are and think things like we're better without them.  Thinking we're a dead-end team and looking for a way out is one thing, doing the other two things is something else.

[Skin'emAlive]

I've never been on that boat. I also was never on the trade Gil boat too though. 

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Every real Wizards fan has proposed a Wall trade at some point in the last 8 years.  There is no bigger Wall stan than me and I've proposed Wall trades before.  It's part of being a die hard.

What's infuriating though is when we turn on the players when they get hurt, or when we forget how good they are and think things like we're better without them.  Thinking we're a dead-end team and looking for a way out is one thing, doing the other two things is something else.

 

The bolded is not true, I don't even know what "real Wizard fan" means in the context you are talking about.  I agree with you on our total disgust for turning on Wall when he was out this year.  I respect you being pragmatic about whatever it takes to get this team a championship, and yes, he wasn't always the player he is now.  I'm too emotionally attached to do something like that, I'm compromised, that's why you'd be a better GM then me.  I'd still lead a protest with pitchforks and torches if we traded Wall right now for something stupid like Kwahi.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Renegade7

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

The bolded is not true, I don't even know what "real Wizard fan" means in the context you are talking about.  I agree with you on our total disgust for turning on Wall when he was out this year.  I respect you being pragmatic about whatever it takes to get this team a championship, and yes, he wasn't always the player he is now.  I'm too emotionally attached to do something like that, I'm compromised, that's why you'd be a better GM then me.  I'd still lead a protest with pitchforks and torches if we traded Wall right now for something stupid like Kwahi.

 

Well Kawhi should have won MVP last season and he's a big game player who won a Finals MVP, that's not a stupid trade.  I wouldn't make it, but I'm also the guy who isn't sure I'd trade Wall for Anthony Davis--something Predicto made fun of me for saying.  Most people in the basketball world would think a Wall for Kawhi swap to be fair.

 

I've been super invested in this team since we drafted Wall.  I followed it much more casually during the Arenas era but drafting Wall got me to buy in.  I've been geeking out over his performances since his dang summer league games when he threw about 80 lobs to JaVale.  I've watched him play hundreds upon hundreds of games over the last eight years.  I sat there during the summer getting goosebumps watching that dumb ball is life documentary he made.  There are times when I feel like more of a fan of Wall than the team itself.  My Wall fanhood is absolute and unquestionable but I've proposed Wall trades when I've lost faith in our build.  And I pretty much know who the regulars are who've been watching all these years and almost all of us have lost faith and contemplated trading Wall before.  It's normal.  It's what you do when you're trying to figure out how to start over.

 

Anyway, I'm confident that Wall's going to play all of his good years here.  This is his franchise and he'll retire as the GOAT Wizard/Bullet if he gets a ring, or just behind Unseld and Hayes if he doesn't.  I fully expect him to finish top three in MVP voting next season and lead us to a top two seed (that's what I expected this year).  I look at what Toronto did this season and think there is no reason that can't be us next year if we fix our big man situation and get a healthy year from Wall.  That's the kind of annual hope that Wall inspires.

[Renegade7]

28 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Well Kawhi should have won MVP last season and he's a big game player who won a Finals MVP, that's not a stupid trade. 

 

That's the kind of annual hope that Wall inspires.

I'd say given how many games Kawhi has missed lately it is ofiicially a stupid trade, but we're kicking a dead horse back and forth on that one and its not going to happen anyway.  I never questioned your loyalty, just your logic.  Beal is right, long as he's on our team, we have a shot.  Everytime I see Wall play like he does in the playoffs, I look forward to MVP talk the next season, but for whatever reason, it just never works out that way.  Doesn't mean it ain't gonna happen.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Renegade7

[Destino]

I have discussed scenarios where it might make sense to trade Wall.  Wasn't about Wall's quality as a player though, but the construction around him.  This team is locked on a treadmill right now and getting off of it might not be quick or painless.  Ideally we keep Wall, he's a fan favorite and the team's best player, but the priority has to be breaking the cycle of winning ~45 games and not having a chance of making the finals.  

 

Whatever happens with Wall I hope he gets to at least play in the finals while he's still an all star.  He deserves better than grinding his knees to dust for a GM that's ok with mediocrity.  

 

Edit:  and I'd definitely trade him for players I think are better.  That much should be obvious though.  No player is so special that you wouldn't trade them for a better player, all other things being equal.  

Edited April 23, 2018 by Destino

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Renegade7]

36 minutes ago, Destino said:

No player is so special that you wouldn't trade them for a better player, all other things being equal.  

 

I don't agree with this, especially in our case since our entire team is built around Wall and I never hear how anyone would address that Otto plays the same position as Kawhi.  What you're talking about in theory makes sense... if you're playing NBA2K.

 

As has been touched on, the problem with our core isn't necessarily our core itself, but what's been put around it.  Trading Wall isn't going to fix that, so I wish we'd just stop talking about it already.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Renegade7

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

You know, I think I’ve seen about 10 minutes total (two episodes, 5 minutes of each) of futurama in my life...

It's a cool show, not great, but I seem to get through every episode that comes on.  I remember the first one, so I have a thing for it:

 

 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

but the priority has to be breaking the cycle of winning ~45 games and not having a chance of making the finals.  

 

I am convinced that we can break that cycle by fixing the big man situation.  Doing so will require drafting well or making a smart free agent signing for once.  But it shouldn't be impossible to find productive bigs who can play defense.

 

I am feeling insecure about our long term ability to contend in the East though.  Oddly enough, it's not Boston, Cleveland, or Toronto that has me worried.  I like our future better than theirs.  It's Philly.  We're going to reach a point soon where their top two players are better than ours and they're younger.  Some days I watch them and think "God help us, this is Shaq and Penny all over again."  And then some days I watch them and think, "We'll be alright, this is Shaq and Penny all over again."

 

It's a weird situation having a potential unbeatable juggernaut forming up in the conference, but one that is particularly vulnerable to injuries that could completely unravel it.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

It's a cool show, not great, but I seem to get through every episode that comes on.  I remember the first one, so I have a thing for it:

The other 5 minutes I saw was the end of an episode where they were going to bring his dog back to life. I was like 28 or 29 getting ready for bed upstairs at my friend’s house the night before his wedding (I was the best man). The reason I remember those details is because that 5 minutes is burned into my soul. Like how everybody remembers where they were when they heard Kennedy had been shot.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

 

[purbeast]

Was at the game last night and it was so much fun.  That place was ROCKIN and there were even a lot of empty seats.  I've never heard it so loud in a sporting event before.  It was my first playoff game of any sport though too.

 

The officiating all game was so one sided, it was really odd.  It was fun letting the refs hear it too.  Beal being fouled out on that call was laughable.

 

I tried to get a damn John Wall City Edition jersey yesterday before the game and they were completely sold out by like 5:20pm.  I checked the team store first then all kiosk's around the arena.  I would have gotten an Oubre one if he was under a new contract but I'm a bit skeptical that he may not even be on the team shortly.

 

Does anyone know how early the store opens prior to the games?  I didn't even know you could access the store without having to get into the arena, and I'm assuming they only sell Wizards gear on Wizards game day.  They were starting to flip everything around to Capitals gear as we left the arena.  I may go to game 6 and if I do I want to get there early enough to be sure to get a jersey.  It sucks you can't find the City Edition jerseys anywhere else.

Edited April 23, 2018 by purbeast

[Warhead36]

When the crowd was chanting "eff the refs", I don't think I've ever heard a DC sports arena louder.

[Llevron]

Real GM makes me laugh lol

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

1 hour ago, purbeast said:

Was at the game last night and it was so much fun.  That place was ROCKIN and there were even a lot of empty seats.  I've never heard it so loud in a sporting event before.  It was my first playoff game of any sport though too.

 

The officiating all game was so one sided, it was really odd.  It was fun letting the refs hear it too.  Beal being fouled out on that call was laughable.

 

I tried to get a damn John Wall City Edition jersey yesterday before the game and they were completely sold out by like 5:20pm.  I checked the team store first then all kiosk's around the arena.  I would have gotten an Oubre one if he was under a new contract but I'm a bit skeptical that he may not even be on the team shortly.

 

Does anyone know how early the store opens prior to the games?  I didn't even know you could access the store without having to get into the arena, and I'm assuming they only sell Wizards gear on Wizards game day.  They were starting to flip everything around to Capitals gear as we left the arena.  I may go to game 6 and if I do I want to get there early enough to be sure to get a jersey.  It sucks you can't find the City Edition jerseys anywhere else.

I just asked my mother (Wiz season ticket holder) and she said the store opens two hours before gametime.

4 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Real GM makes me laugh lol

 

 

I saw that post lol

[purbeast]

Just now, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

I just asked my mother (Wiz season ticket holder) and she said the store opens two hours before gametime.

Thanks. 

 

That is weird then because yesterday on Twitter they said they were giving out the give-away shirts from game 3 with purchases at the store between 3pm and 5pm, which would mean it opened up 3 hours prior to game time.  I wish I had known that so I could have tried to get down there earlier.  I also didn't expect them to sell out of jerseys at the team store, I would figure they would have boatloads of them in backrooms somewhere, since they have to re-up on them every few nights.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Destino]

10 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I am convinced that we can break that cycle by fixing the big man situation.  Doing so will require drafting well or making a smart free agent signing for once.  But it shouldn't be impossible to find productive bigs who can play defense.

I agree but the problem is no team can be strong at all 5 positions and the Wizards have no money.  Even the Warriors are forced to play with bum centers.  The Wizards are spending max money at the 1, 2, and 3.  There's no budget for a very good PF and Center.  Wall's deal is increases by 19 million a year after next season (which eats up every dollar Gortat and Morris' expiring deal takes off the books after next season).  Mahinmi's contract is an albatross and he can't stay on the floor, meaning the Wizards need another center that can play ~25 minutes a night.  That doesn't come cheap in free agency.  And that still leaves PF unresolved... where are the wizards going to get a cheap stretch four that can defend?  

 

Assuming we find a starting caliber PF and Center... somehow the Wizards still have to replace or resign Oubre, who is really the only bench player with any sort of reliable offense. 

 

 

[Fergasun]

Friday afternoon: "Trade Beal" -- 10 for 19 in the following 2 games.

 

If any of this "core" is traded, it should be Porter -- but perhaps his defense rather than offense is carrying him through this series?  I've consistently called him a ghost... he's almost like a little more consistent version of that "tantalizing big man who never reaches his offensive potential, but shows enough flash in games to make you want to keep him"

 

The only way to get a cheap PF/C is through the Vet Min Exception or drafting them....  but somehow he team ended up with Mike Scott.... and Oubre....

 

I'll take the response after I hang-up....

[Going Commando]

15 minutes ago, Destino said:

I agree but the problem is no team can be strong at all 5 positions and the Wizards have no money.  Even the Warriors are forced to play with bum centers.  The Wizards are spending max money at the 1, 2, and 3.  There's no budget for a very good PF and Center.  Wall's deal is increases by 19 million a year after next season (which eats up every dollar Gortat and Morris' expiring deal takes off the books after next season).  Mahinmi's contract is an albatross and he can't stay on the floor, meaning the Wizards need another center that can play ~25 minutes a night.  That doesn't come cheap in free agency.  And that still leaves PF unresolved... where are the wizards going to get a cheap stretch four that can defend?  

 

Assuming we find a starting caliber PF and Center... somehow the Wizards still have to replace or resign Oubre, who is really the only bench player with any sort of reliable offense.

 

We could get by with garbage at C if we had a PF like Draymond.  It doesn't necessarily have to be an upgrade at C, I'd gladly take an upgrade at PF.  We just can't be playing weak guys at both positions like we currently do.  Keef should be coming off the bench as a third big.  That's what he'd do in Toronto.  Or on a healthy Boston team.  Having to start him and give him such a big role is a mark of how much weaker we are in the front court than them.

 

The truth is we're going to have to get lucky in free agency or the draft.  It's not impossible.  A Bam Adebayo or Rudy Gobert or Clint Capela type pick does happen most years.  The hard part is finding that guy, something for which Ernie has shown zero aptitude.  His MO is overpaying for aging, lethargic, declining role playing bigs.

 

I wish we would take a chance on Nerlens Noel this summer.  He'll probably be dirt cheap.  He was a high level defender and energy guy once upon a time.  Maybe he just needs to play for a playoff team to get back to being that.

Edited April 23, 2018 by stevemcqueen1

[Destino]

10 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I am feeling insecure about our long term ability to contend in the East though.  Oddly enough, it's not Boston, Cleveland, or Toronto that has me worried.  I like our future better than theirs.  It's Philly.  We're going to reach a point soon where their top two players are better than ours and they're younger.  Some days I watch them and think "God help us, this is Shaq and Penny all over again."  And then some days I watch them and think, "We'll be alright, this is Shaq and Penny all over again."

You're underrating Boston in the short term.  Brown looks like a star in the playoffs and Tatum has future allstar written all over him.  Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, and Horford would easily be the best offensive starting lineup in the east unless Lebron works some magic this offseason.  Stevens has done much more with so much less.  If the Celtics stay healthy that's likely a 60 win team.  They won't be able to keep it together beyond two more season though.

 

About Philly:  Redick, Belinelli, and Ilyasova are free agents at the end of the season.  They could lose a big part of what is currently making them so difficult to deal with.  Without a ton of shooters that team isn't nearly as scary. 

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, Destino said:

You're underrating Boston in the short term.  Brown looks like a star in the playoffs and Tatum has future allstar written all over him.  Kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, and Horford would easily be the best offensive starting lineup in the east unless Lebron works some magic this offseason.  Stevens has done much more with so much less.  If the Celtics stay healthy that's likely a 60 win team. 

 

About Philly:  Redick, Belinelli, and Ilyasova are free agents at the end of the season.  They could lose a big part of what is currently making them so difficult to deal with.

 

We're probably going to get to see next round, but I don't think Boston can hold a candle to the talent that Philly has.  Redick, Bellinelli and Ilyasova are good role players, but they're not the reason Philly is scary.  That would be the 21 and 24 year old future MVPs they're trotting out.  Embiid has a legit chance to be the best player in the NBA within the next few years.  He's a basketball savant.  He's already battling with John and Giannis for second best player in the East status and he's going to keep getting better for a while.  The only thing stopping him is injury.  Boston does not have anyone in his or Simmons's class.  And I haven't completely forgotten about Fultz yet either.

 

Plus Philly has max cap room this summer.  To be as good as they already are and still have the ability to sign LeBron outright if he wanted to go there... that is troubling.  They gamed the system and got lucky in the right draft classes and there is nothing we can really do about it except hope they get broken up without reaching their potential like the Magic and Thunder.

[Destino]

19 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

We're probably going to get to see next round, but I don't think Boston can hold a candle to the talent that Philly has.  Redick, Bellinelli and Ilyasova are good role players, but they're not the reason Philly is scary.  That would be the 21 and 24 year old future MVPs they're trotting out.  Embiid has a legit chance to be the best player in the NBA within the next few years.  He's a basketball savant.  He's already battling with John and Giannis for second best player in the East status and he's going to keep getting better for a while.  The only thing stopping him is injury.  Boston does not have anyone in his or Simmons's class.  And I haven't completely forgotten about Fultz yet either.

 

Plus Philly has max cap room this summer.  To be as good as they already are and still have the ability to sign LeBron outright if he wanted to go there... that is troubling.  They gamed the system and got lucky in the right draft classes and there is nothing we can really do about it except hope they get broken up without reaching their potential like the Magic and Thunder.

I agree with you about Philly, I'm just hoping they screw up and lose their shooters.  Without shooters they aren't the same team.  Problem is that they know that, so it's unlikely that they'll enter next season without a ton of shooters.  Like you say, they have the cap space.

 

If they actually manage to improve their roster and stay healthy, we're screwed. 

[Renegade7]

Basketball Gods are probably debating this as we speak because of "The Process".  The outlook on Philly is not the same if Embiid can't stay healthy.