ES Soccer Thread

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Well GHH knew I had to post eventually. He's probably surprised I took this long .....

I just figured you were so ashamed by all the luck going your way yet again, you were staying away to try save face. :silly:

Hail.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Even Gary Neville, who like Aikman has surprisingly turned out to be one of the fairest, straight-up analysts out there, disagrees with that assertion.

Hail.

Neville is a very evenhanded pundit who doesnt show much bias in his announcing. I am actually surprised by that because so many of the British announcers do that and cant hide it.

I disagree with him, as do many others. Johnson clearly kicked at Valencia, very obvious too. Even Mark Lawrenson thinks Johnson fouled Valencia and of course he was Liverpool legend during the glory years

---------- Post added September-25th-2012 at 12:26 AM ----------

I'm always happy when we win at Anfield but yeah there's lots of of concerns. The Champions league game told me that. If we win the league this year it will take everything we have. We won't be cruising to a title like some other years. No room for mistakes this year either.

unless you guys buy a competent central midfielder, United will not win the league this year, imo.

They are also going out to the first decent side they see in CL. Its very bad.

Also, wtf has happened to Nani? He is awful now.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

..... I disagree with him, as do many others. Johnson clearly kicked at Valencia, very obvious too. Even Mark Lawrenson thinks Johnson fouled Valencia and of course he was Liverpool legend during the glory years .....

Disagreement over Halsey handing Utd the game aside (Valencia was on his way down before Johnson attempted any challenge .... but meh, it'a all a moot point now and we move onto West Brom); Lawrenson is a complete dick. According to him, the officials got every decision right Sunday. His explaining of the Evans/ Shelvey challenge had to be heard to be believed late Sunday night.

I often wonder what Hansen must think and say to him off air after some of the absolute garbage he comes out with on air sat alongside him. The one that instantly springs to mind was the '99 Champions League final in Barcelona. I was out and about in the car toward the end of that, and had the radio on. He was the co-commentator for the BBC on National radio that game. And when the second Utd goal went in deep into stoppage time, he's in the background literally screaming 'YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! ', to then follow it up with 'The greatest ever game/ triumph by an English club in Europe!' ..... Really Mark? Aside from the way that game had gone with Utd, like most games through the '99 season, totally riding their luck, getting played off the park with Munich hitting post and bar yet having Lady luck shine on them again with the two injury time goals to rob Bayern blind; weren't you a part of the team that did what no other could of done at the time that went into Roma's backyard and came away with the European Cup in 1984? How quickly we forget.

Great player, but ala Riggins and Theismann here, a guy I have absolutely ZERO time or respect for in his post playing days.

His World Class center half partner Hansen is like Neville. Totally impartial. Totally honest. If Liverpool are poor, he won't hold back in saying their poor. The way an analyst/ pundit should be. Mark the Manc on the other hand is just a sycophant dick.

But as you noted, he's FAR from the only one among British announcers.

Hail.

*Edit* I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Utd either personally. That squad has been a poor squad for a Ferguson assembled unit for a good few years now, yet they keep on finding ways to win games they often shouldn't. (Which probably says as much about the overall poor quality standard of the EPL across the board as much as anything.). If he stays fit, the added fire power of RVP to compliment Rooney and Hernandez could well fire them to another title and see them go close in Europe with the chances Utd create.

I sadly have them down for the league. And with the luck they always seem to get in Europe, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them at Wembley next May in the final of that either.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[ixcuincle]

Who's getting FIFA 13?

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Disagreement over Halsey handing Utd the game aside (Valencia was on his way down before Johnson attempted any challenge .... but meh, it'a all a moot point now and we move onto West Brom); Lawrenson is a complete dick. According to him, the officials got every decision right Sunday. His explaining of the Evans/ Shelvey challenge had to be heard to be believed late Sunday night.

I often wonder what Hansen must think and say to him off air after some of the absolute garbage he comes out with on air sat alongside him. The one that instantly springs to mind was the '99 Champions League final in Barcelona. I was out and about in the car toward the end of that, and had the radio on. He was the co-commentator for the BBC on National radio that game. And when the second Utd goal went in deep into stoppage time, he's in the background literally screaming 'YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS! ', to then follow it up with 'The greatest ever game/ triumph by an English club in Europe!' ..... Really Mark? Aside from the way that game had gone with Utd, like most games through the '99 season, totally riding their luck, getting played off the park with Munich hitting post and bar yet having Lady luck shine on them again with the two injury time goals to rob Bayern blind; weren't you a part of the team that did what no other could of done at the time that went into Roma's backyard and came away with the European Cup in 1984? How quickly we forget.

Great player, but ala Riggins and Theismann here, a guy I have absolutely ZERO time or respect for in his post playing days.

His World Class center half partner Hansen is like Neville. Totally impartial. Totally honest. If Liverpool are poor, he won't hold back in saying their poor. The way an analyst/ pundit should be. Mark the Manc on the other hand is just a sycophant dick.

But as you noted, he's FAR from the only one among British announcers.

Hail.

*Edit* I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Utd either personally. That squad has been a poor squad for a Ferguson assembled unit for a good few years now, yet they keep on finding ways to win games they often shouldn't. (Which probably says as much about the overall poor quality standard of the EPL across the board as much as anything.). If he stays fit, the added fire power of RVP to compliment Rooney and Hernandez could well fire them to another title and see them go close in Europe with the chances Utd create.

I sadly have them down for the league. And with the luck they always seem to get in Europe, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them at Wembley next May in the final of that either.

Mark Lawrenson is absolutely not impartial. In his columns in the Mirror and on MOTD, he has always been overtly pro Liverpool.

and why wouldnt he be excited at the Solksjaar goal? That was an incredible footballing moment, lol. Thats completely over the top to expect him not to be caught up in the moment like everyone was. Just like most people were caught up in the moment in 2005 in Instanbul when Liverpool were outplayed for 110 of the 120 minutes of that match against AC Milan but people still were excited and effusive with praise, despite the luck that Liverpool rode that day?

This United team is not good enough to do damage in Europe. I guess you can say they could get a lucky draw like in 2011, but I think the midfield would foul them up against the like of Valencia and Juve (well Juve is kind of a favorite for the title imo, so I take that back), Dortmund, and even Porto. They may win the league because its become clear that you do not need a good midfield to win the premiership but they will be found out in Europe.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

The very last thing Lawrenson is, is pro Liverpool. And the inherent difference is you wouldn't get someone like Neville going WAY OTT at a Liverpool success in the same way and coming out with utter ***** as noted previous after what he's been a part of.

Meh, Istanbul worked out well. We got outplayed in 2005. We outplayed Milan in Athens two years later and they got us back. But I know which one I'd rather of won with the way it all played out.

Hail.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I see, Lawrenson has to be 100% Liverpool to be pro-Liverpool. If not, then he is not.

I have never heard anyone say Lawrenson isnt pro Liverpool, but its whatever, his pro Liverpool is probably not enough for Liverpool fans.

and the 2007 match up was more even than either side being outplayed. Milan controlled the pace of that match but Liverpool did take more shots. It was even and a forgettable final.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Put as many laughing smileys down as you want, it's still not altering the fact that Lawrenson's a dick who is the furthest thing from being 'pro-Liverpool' as an ex-player could be, as witnessed by the example. And following on from the example of Hansen who is someone totally impartial and fair, the way a pundit should be as also noted; it's strange that you'd think I'd want him to be pre-Liverpool to start with, shrugs.

I'll leave your assertion of 2007 alone and file it in the same ridiculous folder as previously in this thread with your rewriting of how Istanbul and in particular Gerrard's differing roles in that game went.

Your nothing if not highly entertaining Asiatic man.

Hail.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I only cited Lawrenson because of you citing Neville, the majority of the press opinion is that Valencia was fouled by Johnson. Valencia was going down beforehand, but that does not exclude Johnson's contact with Valencia which is what I said originally.

and I dont know how I re-wrote the 2007 final when Milan had 53% of possession in that match and were even more dominant in the first half. I dont think either team was better than the other, I just feel it was an even match and kind of a forgettable final. It was not a diss of Liverpool at all.

And I have no idea what Gerrard's role in the 2005 finals has to do with these posts. I dont recall what I said about Gerrard in that match except that he got overran in the first half in central midfield which forced the Didi Haman sub and had Gerrard out wide. I dont think I said Gerrard was garbage for the entirety of the match or something.

Liverpool fans are a strange bunch, I dont get it.

[DCranon21]

Who's getting FIFA 13?

I'll be purchasing this great game. I'm still on career in FIFA 12.

[RichmondRedskin88]

Dortmund vs Man Utd. My new German team vs My long time England team. Not fun.lol

[DC9]

Martin Kelly out for the season with the torn ACL... but the red card went the way of ManU... go ****ing figure...

[jobaga]

I only cited Lawrenson because of you citing Neville, the majority of the press opinion is that Valencia was fouled by Johnson. Valencia was going down beforehand, but that does not exclude Johnson's contact with Valencia which is what I said originally.

just curious: replace the name Johnson with the name Sagna, would you still be so adamant that it was a clear penalty?

[jobaga]

Martin Kelly out for the season with the torn ACL... but the red card went the way of ManU... go ****ing figure...

I hope Wisdom gets his chance

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I only cited Lawrenson because of you citing Neville, the majority of the press opinion is that Valencia was fouled by Johnson. Valencia was going down beforehand, but that does not exclude Johnson's contact with Valencia which is what I said originally. .....

And then went on to argue that Lawrenson was a Liverpool 'homer.' Which was bizarre in itself as I'd applauded Neville for his straight-up, unbiased opinion. But hey, it allowed you to have fun with the laughing smileys so I guess it suited your point.

..... and I dont know how I re-wrote the 2007 final when Milan had 53% of possession in that match and were even more dominant in the first half. I dont think either team was better than the other, I just feel it was an even match and kind of a forgettable final. It was not a diss of Liverpool at all.

And I have no idea what Gerrard's role in the 2005 finals has to do with these posts. I dont recall what I said about Gerrard in that match except that he got overran in the first half in central midfield which forced the Didi Haman sub and had Gerrard out wide. I dont think I said Gerrard was garbage for the entirety of the match or something.

Liverpool fans are a strange bunch, I dont get it.

Gerrard's role in the '05 final is pertinent as you continue to rewrite history there. Your rewording on 2007 we'll now let slide as it's a subjective POV. Which is fair enough.

Once again, for the unwise on Istanbul:

Steven Gerrard didn't end up on the right at the Aturturk. We went to 3 at the back and 5 in midfield, sacrificing Stevie Finnan at H/T for the man that totally changed that game, Didi Hamman; who took out the influence of Kaka who'd been majestic first half. Xabi and Didi sat, Garcia was on the right, Riise on the left in more of a wing-back role, dropping back to make a 4 when needed; with Gerrard supporting the front two (which was more Smicer playing off Baros, and then Cisse) through the middle.

Then in extra time, through a combination of Carragher cramping up and struggling, and seeing the game out to penalties, Steven ended up playing at right back.

But hey, why I'm debating this with a guy who wasn't at the game and has previously vehemently argued Stevie's worth through his career as a central midfielder garnered from behind his TV/ PC screen when I've had the privilege of seeing that first hand all over England and Europe for the past 15 years is beyond me.

More fool me for enabling you.

Hail.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Gibbs Hog Heaven

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

just curious: replace the name Johnson with the name Sagna, would you still be so adamant that it was a clear penalty?

If you replaced the name with sagna, would you have said it was a penalty?

and I wouldnt be making the argument that it wasnt a penalty if it was Sagna. What I would be upset about is why he and the other defender didnt stop the danger further up the field.

[jobaga]

If you replaced the name with sagna, would you have said it was a penalty?

and I wouldnt be making the argument that it wasnt a penalty if it was Sagna. What I would be upset about is why he and the other defender didnt stop the danger further up the field.

sounds believable

[Elessar78]

GHH, sorry about the loss. Was pulling for your guys. I've been avoiding the thread because I hadn't had the chance to watch either arsenal or the l'pool matches. I didn't want the spoilers.

What a great, emotional goal by Gerrard. So hard to ignore United's frailties in midfield though as they are overly reliant on Giggs and Scholes for where those guys are in their careers. Again, hard to second guess Ferguson, he must have guys he believes are close to breaking through to the first team.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

And then went on to argue that Lawrenson was a Liverpool 'homer.' Which was bizarre in itself as I'd applauded Neville for his straight-up, unbiased opinion. But hey, it allowed you to have fun with the laughing smileys so I guess it suited your point.

more smileys

And you mentioned Neville because you were stunned an ex United player would defend the Liverpool player. Then I said Neville is about as unbiased a pundit as you will find in England because of you being stunned of Neville not being biased. I used Lawrenson to show an ex Liverpool player saying it was.

I will add a few more smileys :pfft::evilg::cool:

Gerrard's role in the '05 final is pertinent as you continue to rewrite history there. Your rewording on 2007 we'll now let slide as it's a subjective POV. Which is fair enough.

here is the issue, I never said Gerrard's role wasnt important. I never said Gerrard wast an important player in that match. What I said, and what you chose to ignore, is that he was also the big reason why they went down 3-0 in the first place. I also said Haman's substitution and marking of Kaka, and moving Gerrard away from the center is what turned the match around.

And I only cited match stats, official match stats to say what happened in the 2007 final. I dont think it was a case of either side playing the other off the park, it was an even match and Milan were just more clinical.

Steven Gerrard didn't end up on the right at the Aturturk. We went to 3 at the back and 5 in midfield, sacrificing Stevie Finnan at H/T for the man that totally changed that game, Didi Hamman; who took out the influence of Kaka who'd been majestic first half. Xabi and Didi sat, Garcia was on the right, Riise on the left in more of a wing-back role, dropping back to make a 4 when needed; with Gerrard supporting the front two (which was more Smicer playing off Baros, and then Cisse) through the middle.

Then in extra time, through a combination of Carragher cramping up and struggling, and seeing the game out to penalties, Steven ended up playing at right back.

Gerrard moved to an inside right attacking position, but it was probably just a free role to remove him from central midfield duties. The real point is that Gerrard was moved out of central midfield due his bad positioning giving Kaka and Pirlo the lay of the land.

But hey, why I'm debating this with a guy who wasn't at the game and has previously vehemently argued Stevie's worth through his career as a central midfielder garnered from behind his TV/ PC screen when I've had the privilege of seeing that first hand all over England and Europe for the past 15 years is beyond me.

More fool me for enabling you.

Hail.

he hasnt. And I am not the only one who has stated this. Jonathan Wilson has been critical about Gerrard's central midfield role for years, but of course he doesnt know anything due to him watching on TV or on his PC. Arigo Sacchi has been the biggest critic of Gerrard, if only he could see Gerrard in the Kop End instead of on his TV or PC. Rafa Benitez recognized this with Gerrard too, and moved him away from central midfield as well, but what does he know sitting behind his TV or PC.

I guess only Liverpool fans know this, and I get it. He is the hero, and you guys wont want anything else.

and honestly the reason I am so critical of Gerrard in a CM role is because I saw Cesc do the same things at Arsenal and it infuriated me that Arsenal fans blamed everyone else for him not defending and being a tactical mess in attack. And It made me happy that Wenger took him away from CM and played him almost as a striker. That was Cesc's best season at Arsenal when he played right off the striker.

FWIW, I actually think Gerrard had a great game against United on Sunday. Those hollywood passes connected at a high rate against them United and he was good at pinning United back with his runs forward. It was probably his best match that I have seen from him in a good 2 years.

---------- Post added September-25th-2012 at 04:35 PM ----------

sounds believable

it is, im not one of those types that dont think my team can do no wrong. You should try it sometime, it makes matches easier watch.

you also didnt answer my question, if it was Sagna who committed that foul on Sterling, would you be claiming it wasnt a penalty?

Edited September 25, 2012 by AsiaticSkinsFan

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Head. Wall. Bang.

Hail.

[FrFan]

Croatian football side gets female touch

Edited September 25, 2012 by FrFan

[jobaga]

it is, im not one of those types that dont think my team can do no wrong. You should try it sometime, it makes matches easier watch.

you also didnt answer my question, if it was Sagna who committed that foul on Sterling, would you be claiming it wasnt a penalty?

ahh the first purely altruistic fan...must be nice to be such a great fan...

I didn't answer your question, because I did not see where you asked it (I still don't see where you asked it)

I always want my team to get the calls. I would have wanted Sterling to get the call. I am not from Liverpool, I do not live and die with every decision. Like most people on this site this football is not my first love (American football is) I watch Suarez both get fouled and dive in most games. I understand that these type of calls are very subjective and depending on who you are pulling for effects who you see things. My point is simple, I do not see how anyone can watch the game (especially someone as objective as you ) and not think Liverpool were on the wrong end of most to all of the calls...

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

FrF,

You ROCK man! Just as I'd given up hope for this this thread today to be anything less than frustratingly stupid, you change the pace completely and put a big ass smile on my face. :pfft:

Hail.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Head. Wall. Bang.

Hail.

describing how I feel. Maybe best that you dont bring up Gerrard in central midfield again (and again, YOU brought him up).

---------- Post added September-25th-2012 at 06:08 PM ----------

My point is simple, I do not see how anyone can watch the game (especially someone as objective as you ) and not think Liverpool were on the wrong end of most to all of the calls...

ah, I get it. You misunderstood the point.

I never made a statement that Liverpool werent on the wrong end of most calls or that United were on the wrong end or vice versa, my point was solely about THAT call and that call alone. I referred to the decision between Shelvy/Evans, but I said I dont think it should have been a red.

What I said is that Johnson fouled Valencia, and Johnson knew he fouled Valencia by not protesting afterward. I also said that Liverpool werent clinical in front of goal, which is why they lost the match. I never made a statement about one team gaining more calls over the other because I think Liverpool should have buried that match must earlier but didnt.

and yeah, I am actually pretty fair about my teams. For instance, I think Koscielny should have been called for a penalty on Sunday against City when he took down Aguero in the area. It was close, and if the ref called it I would not have protested the call.

Edited September 25, 2012 by AsiaticSkinsFan

[FrFan]

FrF,

You ROCK man! Just as I'd given up hope for this this thread today to be anything less than frustratingly stupid, you change the pace completely and put a big ass smile on my face. :pfft:

Hail.

Since your favorite team is in turmoil, I felt I had to do something for you man.