PFT/CSN Washington: Mike Shanahan has made the Redskins older

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

People have clung to the idea that getting younger = getting better. Which it absolutely does not. In-fact, and I've said this time and time again, getting younger simply for the sake of getting younger is just a irresponsible as valuing older high-priced vets over draft picks/younger hoemgrown players.

The fact of the matter is that we didn't have many options for getting younger this year anyway, free agency was an old man's game, and we had fewer draft picks to rely on for getting any younger, so really the idea of getting younger this season was more of a pipedream than anything. Also we did cut a lot of older dead weight/bloated contracts by getting rid of guys like Ladell, Griff, Smoot, Rock, Randy Thomas, Samuels (retiring). The contracts we have brought in have been low risk/high reward potential, we haven't put a ton of money out there, meaning that if we need to cut ties with a guy at the end of the season it wont be that bad.

Really there is no telling what Shanahan and Allen's plans are for building the team due to the instability of the CBA and the changes in that caused in Free Agency. The following season(s) will be the true measure of how they are working. There is nothing wrong with veterans, nor is there anything wrong with trading for player, as long as you have a longterm contingency plan, and don't rely solely on those avenues for building your team. That was the biggest problem with the previous FO: overpaying for older guys, lack of depth (due to overpayment) and no real plan for the future.

[NewCliche21]

Spoken like the fan of a team that doesn't build through the draft.

Bringing in veterans and building through the draft are not mutually exclusive, though, especially in the first year of a new coach and GM. It's like when you get out of college and go to your first apartment or house: You bring a lot of crap with beer labels on it, a lot of stupid clothes, furniture with "I don't even want to know" stains on it, and dishes from your parents. Why? Because you couldn't possibly go out and get everything that you need all at once, and the stuff that you have works. You get settled for a bit and then go out and get things that can be broken in and deemed worthwhile investments.

This really is a non-story.

[MattFancy]

Which is all fine... but you can't avoid reality. Trading picks gets you higher paid older players for a shorter period of time. Do it for long enough and you end up with a team with less depth, no up and coming talent, that holds up less well to the rigors of a long season.

At some point you have to draft the next generation of players.

We have gotten picks back in the trades we've made. We basically swapped 5th round pick with the Rams to get Carriker. We'll also get a pick back next draft in the Jamaal Brown trade. So yeah we've traded picks, but we've gotten picks back in return in those trades.

[MustangSteve]

McNabb 1976 Campbell 1981

Hicks 1978 Heyer 1984

Wade 1984 Kelly 1986

Final 53 have not been chosen just guessed and does anyone believe we will be a 4 win season?

I think we will have 4 wins by at least week 7. I'm drinking the koolaid hard this season, and if we can stay healthy, I truly believe this team will make the playoffs.

I don't know who the final 53 man roster will be, but you can believe it will be the hardest workers and best players on this team. Nobody will get a free ride this season, you will produce in this system, or you will be gone, period!

[MustangSteve]

Redskins are proud to announce their new Qb...

Details at 11:00

I seen this guy play, he's a beast on the field with a very bad attitude. If he's not jabbing ya with his cane, he's throwing his teeth at ya. This can only mean one thing, Championship!

[ressecup1987]

Also, we didn't have many choices to sign young free agents because of the CBA agreement. Most of the players available were 30+ because the younger players were restricted in combination with us having few draft picks.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Bringing in veterans and building through the draft are not mutually exclusive, though, especially in the first year of a new coach and GM. It's like when you get out of college and go to your first apartment or house: You bring a lot of crap with beer labels on it, a lot of stupid clothes, furniture with "I don't even want to know" stains on it, and dishes from your parents. Why? Because you couldn't possibly go out and get everything that you need all at once, and the stuff that you have works. You get settled for a bit and then go out and get things that can be broken in and deemed worthwhile investments.

This really is a non-story.

Holy crap....that is one of the best analogys I have heard in a while.

I heard they were able to get the "I don't even want to know" stain off of DM5 also. Score!

[GenMgr]

This is the NFC East..not the AFC West..at this point I care more about competency,savvy, and experience. How many other teams have to open with either the NY Giants, Cowboys, or Eagles right off the bat.

[theTruthTeller]

I love Shanahan as a coach, but I was a bit worried he'd come in with a "win immediately" attitude, which goes back to Al Davis pulling the rug out from under him. The McNabb trade was a mistake in my opinion. The chances of being a real contender are not good during the time McNabb is here. When the Skins are ready, McNabb will be gone and the picks that would be ready to start will be starting for Philadelphia. The other oldies but goodies aren't as big a problem because they didn't cost anything, but at some point you need to fill out the roster with prospects and get a good look at them.

[MustangSteve]

The McNabb trade was a mistake in my opinion. The chances of being a real contender are not good during the time McNabb is here.

I 100% disagree, we were never going to win anything with Jason Campbell leading this team. McNabb is a proven winner, and a QB who will make a blitzing defense pay, he's not afraid to lay a bomb on them. No more of that 5 yard dump off garbage we suffered the last 2 years.

Our offense is already better just having a real QB, then add the Shanahan's. I think this is going to be a fun offense and team to watch this year and many more to come. Gawd I hope I'm right

[BurgundyBlog]

Bringing in veterans and building through the draft are not mutually exclusive, though, especially in the first year of a new coach and GM. It's like when you get out of college and go to your first apartment or house: You bring a lot of crap with beer labels on it, a lot of stupid clothes, furniture with "I don't even want to know" stains on it, and dishes from your parents. Why? Because you couldn't possibly go out and get everything that you need all at once, and the stuff that you have works. You get settled for a bit and then go out and get things that can be broken in and deemed worthwhile investments.

This really is a non-story.

this analogy is absolutely brilliant. the children of america should be educated by thinkers of this caliber.

[chipwhich]

Bringing in veterans and building through the draft are not mutually exclusive

You are right, and as of right now there is no evidence we have any intent to do the latter.

As of right now we don't have all of our picks for next year.

Consistently trading high picks for vets is a sign of mutual exclusion.

I will give Danny one more offseason to prove otherwise, but as it looks now. We, just like all of our regimes, despise the draft.

[ATLredskin]

What positions are we old at anyway? I mean people act like we can't easily correct these problems.

QB - Sign McNabb to a 4-5 year contract and draft a rookie QB his 2nd-3rd year to develop for the long run

RB - RB's come a dime a dozen...really no problem here

WR - Wait and see who make the roster, but I wouldn't be suprised to see Eddie Royal on the roster in a few years or possibly Vincent Jackson

OL - This is the only real one we should be worrying about. We need to invest most of our money into building this part up...

Defense - Wait and see who make the roster along the defensive line, but if you guys want a good nose tackle then we have to are draft one with your first pick. Other than that we are young everywhere else (besides I guess now ILB, but its best to have a solid veteran starter at that spot so we may replace Fletcher with someone like him like a Larry Foote)

[hoskins]

The McNabb trade was a mistake in my opinion. The chances of being a real contender are not good during the time McNabb is here.

I disagree. How can players grow in an offense without a QB who can actually get them the ball? Or how would we even know when what we have at various positions?

I would agree with you if we had a pretty good (but not quite franchise) QB already. But we didn't have that at all. Our 3 QBs were so questionable that they left question marks all over the rest of the offense as well. And Shanahan saw that pretty quickly.

I'm also a big believer in the adage that you win first and then get good. The team needs to learn how to win and find the pride that good teams have. Then that breeds success and further improvement. In that sense, not having an NFL QB on the roster would really have retarded our growth and made it difficult for Shanahan to even establish himself here and get guys to "buy in".

So we needed a QB, and the price on McNabb was very reasonable for a good (admittedly not great) QB.

[chipwhich]

I'm also a big believer in the adage that you win first and then get good.

/thread.

Until you get the mentality of a winner, you are a loser. We have had a loser mentality and nobody has cared.

Teach winning, and goodness follows.

[mistertim]

I 100% disagree, we were never going to win anything with Jason Campbell leading this team. McNabb is a proven winner, and a QB who will make a blitzing defense pay, he's not afraid to lay a bomb on them. No more of that 5 yard dump off garbage we suffered the last 2 years.

Our offense is already better just having a real QB, then add the Shanahan's. I think this is going to be a fun offense and team to watch this year and many more to come. Gawd I hope I'm right

I think McNabb was an upgrade, but the biggest concern about him I have is his injury history. He has only played all 16 games, what, once...twice, in the past 6 or 7 years? If he goes down we might be in trouble unless Sexy Rexy can keep the ball out of opposing players hands or Brennan or Bartel end up legit.

[theTruthTeller]

I 100% disagree, we were never going to win anything with Jason Campbell leading this team. McNabb is a proven winner, and a QB who will make a blitzing defense pay, he's not afraid to lay a bomb on them. No more of that 5 yard dump off garbage we suffered the last 2 years.

Our offense is already better just having a real QB, then add the Shanahan's. I think this is going to be a fun offense and team to watch this year and many more to come. Gawd I hope I'm right

I never said that McNabb doesn't make the team better. He'll make the team better and, as you say, a lot more fun to watch. I said he doesn't make it Super Bowl contender and he's at the end of his career. What did the Skins give up two picks for - the ability to go 8-8 or 9-7? Get a journeyman QB for now, take your lumps, and improve with youth and speed. Loading up with players on the downside of their careers in key positions only makes sense if you are content moving up to mediocrity. I'm not.

[aussieskin]

we may be older but i believe we are a whole lot better, and hopefully wiser, as someone said i am going to sit back and watch the skins kick some tuckes this year

[Geoff_K]

just lovely ... old men ... short career with the skins .... GET YOUTH .. i can take losing IF i think our young men are progressing .. i do NOT want a SB then 10 years of suckage

[NewCliche21]

You are right, and as of right now there is no evidence we have any intent to do the latter.

As of right now we don't have all of our picks for next year.

Consistently trading high picks for vets is a sign of mutual exclusion.

I will give Danny one more offseason to prove otherwise, but as it looks now. We, just like all of our regimes, despise the draft.

Huh?

It's been one offseason, so, given what you've said that I'm right about, how could you have "evidence of the latter" without ignoring the draft picks that we've already picked up?

Shanahan hasn't consistently done anything but replace terrible players with ones he likes, just like the analogy states.

I also don't know why you brought Snyder up. Snyder has done nothing but introduce Shanahan and then sit down. Literally.

Sorry, guys, but the broken record of previous seasons can't be played for 2010.

[BurgundyBlog]

i do NOT want a SB then 10 years of suckage

first of all, those two conditions are NOT a packaged deal. but even if they were, i would happily take a single super bowl win in the next 10 years. it's been almost 20 since our last one.

[HailGreen28]

Huh?

It's been one offseason, so, given what you've said that I'm right about, how could you have "evidence of the latter" without ignoring the draft picks that we've already picked up?

Shanahan hasn't consistently done anything but replace terrible players with ones he likes, just like the analogy states.

I also don't know why you brought Snyder up. Snyder has done nothing but introduce Shanahan and then sit down. Literally.

Sorry, guys, but the broken record of previous seasons can't be played for 2010.

So far, Shanahallen has gone MORE towards trading picks for veterans than even Gibbs 2.0 did. I'd say "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" is appropriate to say at this time.

Shamelessly copied exchange below, where Tris laid it out.

Well, the difference is that Shanny has thus far traded 3 picks for 2 players. A 33 year old QB and a 29 year old T. We'll see if his pace can keep up with Gibbs', but he has a ways to go. I don't expect McNabb to last more than four years, and it remains to be seen what role Brown will have long term, but you can not compare 2 signings to Gibbs multiple draft picks for vets trades.

EDIT: From Dan Steinberg today (6/23), picks for veterans past decade:

Gibbs:

August 2007: Traded a fourth-round pick for G Pete Kendall.

August 2006: Traded a third-round pick and a fourth-round pick for RB T.J. Duckett.

March 2006: Traded a third-round pick and a fourth-round pick for WR Brandon Lloyd.

March 2004: Traded a fifth-round pick for WR James Thrash.

March 2004: Traded CB Champ Bailey and a second-round pick for RB Clinton Portis.

March 2004: Traded a third-round pick for QB Mark Brunell.

Shanahan:

June 2010: Traded either a third- or fourth-round pick for OT Jammal Brown.

April 2010: Traded a second-round pick and either a third- or fourth-round pick for QB Donovan McNabb.

Not counting Carriker, where we just swapped picks, by your count Shanny has EXCEEDED Gibbs' rate so far. (I'm surprised myself)

Gibbs in 4 Years: 7 picks traded, 5 agents signed (seeing CP-CB as a swap)

Shanny in 1 Year: 3 picks traded, 2 agents signed.

[TheGreatBuzz]

I think McNabb was an upgrade, but the biggest concern about him I have is his injury history. He has only played all 16 games, what, once...twice, in the past 6 or 7 years? If he goes down we might be in trouble unless Sexy Rexy can keep the ball out of opposing players hands or Brennan or Bartel end up legit.

This is my major concern. I'm not a fan of Rex, even as a second stringer. I know everyone is going to flame me for a variety of reasons for this, but I had hoped we would keep JC as a second stringer. We could have explained to him that DM5 isn't going to be able to play every snap of every play so he could show something behind him get his value up for a possible trade the next year.

just lovely ... old men ... short career with the skins .... GET YOUTH .. i can take losing IF i think our young men are progressing .. i do NOT want a SB then 10 years of suckage

Everyone keeps wanting to GET YOUTH. Who is going to teach all these young kids? The coaching staff isn't big enough to teach a team full of 1st and 2nd year players. Thats why you need veterans showing the kids the ropes. I think they are bringing in the best vets they can find, make them gel, and then you'll start seeing more youth trickle in to learn from them. At least I hope this is the case.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

So far, Shanahallen has gone MORE towards trading picks for veterans than even Gibbs 2.0 did. I'd say "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" is appropriate to say at this time.

Shamelessly copied exchange below, where Tris laid it out.

Not counting Carriker, where we just swapped picks, by your count Shanny has EXCEEDED Gibbs' rate so far. (I'm surprised myself)

Gibbs in 4 Years: 7 picks traded, 5 agents signed (seeing CP-CB as a swap)

Shanny in 1 Year: 3 picks traded, 2 agents signed.

Wasn't the Jamaal Brown trade a trade were we "just swapped picks" as well?

[TheGreatBuzz]

Wasn't the Jamaal Brown trade a trade were we "just swapped picks" as well?

I don't really see how CB for CP was just a swap. Didn't we send CB and a pick for CP? How is that a swap? Is there something I'm forgetting?