"Gather your armies" (Update: Barber fails to gather an army, loses primary)

[Dan T.]

In his next ad, he's sitting with guys who are supposed to be the Real Easy Company from Band of Brothers where they talk about the gulf spill and how BP shouldn't have to pay for earnings lost and damages.

Then Hitler pops out, says he loves Obama and Pelosi. Then George Washington and Abe Lincoln come out and challenge Hitler to a handicapped match at Summer Slam.

Did anyone else notice in the last scene that the other Alabama politician with the wacky ad is in the scene... Dale Peterson, candidate for Ag. Commissioner, carrying his Winchester rifle.

[mistertim]

Did anyone else notice in the last scene that the other Alabama politician with the wacky ad is in the scene... Dale Peterson, candidate for Ag. Commissioner, carrying his Winchester rifle.

Yeah I noticed that. "So I have someone stroking a pistol while I'm raving like a madman about impeachment and how the gov't is a tyranny, a guy in the commercial playing George Washington says 'gather your armies', and then in the next ad I have people carrying guns start walking behind me...I don't get how anyone could construe that as anything but a pure metaphor and completely non-violent"

[Bang]

Yeah I noticed that. "So I have someone stroking a pistol while I'm raving like a madman about impeachment and how the gov't is a tyranny, a guy in the commercial playing George Washington says 'gather your armies', and then in the next ad I have people carrying guns start walking behind me...I don't get how anyone could construe that as anything but a pure metaphor and completely non-violent"

Jeffrey Dahmer was just a misunderstood gourmet with exotic tastes.

~Bang

[@DCGoldPants]

I can't tell if you're joking or not.

HFF pal!

I've been hired to write and produce his next ad.

I'm thinking of the Statue of Liberty getting pissed about immigrants coming to take our jobs.

[Bang]

HFF pal!

I've been hired to write and produce his next ad.

I'm thinking of the Statue of Liberty getting pissed about immigrants coming to take our jobs.

Impale a few Mexicans on her crown and we've got a winner!

(Of course, that would just be a metaphor on how it seems like a lot of spiky headwear is outsourced to be manufactured in Mexico, thus taking the jobs of hard working American spiky headwear factory workers.)

~Bang

[Dan T.]

Here's a kindred spirit, Pamela Gorman, candidate for Arizona U.S. congress. She gets a little wild with that pistol, nearby airplanes were in peril:

GqnjzONrPiA

[dfitzo53]

Finally a candidate with the skill we really need in Congress: the ability to handle a tommy gun on full auto!

Edit: Not that I'm advocating killing immigrants or political opponents or anything.

[brianm23]

This is Alabama we're talking about here.

Remember this?:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU7fhIO7DG0&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU7fhIO7DG0&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

This guy would definitely get my vote.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This is an ad being run by a Congressional candidate in Alabama.

Did you know you could be arrested in Alabama for being Pakistani without a license?

[Sandman69]

Most of the misquotes are covered here.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Washington

My point is that I hate it when people misquote or totally fabricate quotes of famous people to further a political agenda and I am just doing my part to combat it. (not saying you are doing that, just that it happens) Sorry if I came across as a dick but it just bothers me when people mis attribute quotes or misquote people.

Fair enough. Trust me I was not pulling quotes topush any agenda I have. However, I do believe the Founding Fathers would have been disappointed in how some things are done now adays. Which is why I pulled those quotes.

I will also add, that even from the link you posted some of the quotes that are stated to not be documented. They do say he may have said something similiar, but since it wasn't documented it isn't valid.

I may have grabbed a bad "Pro Gun" George Washington quote. However, there are many a that are documented that show he was very much for the right to bear arms. For the record, I am not a gun fanatic and do not own one. But I do believe it is every person's constitutional right to have them if they choose.

Also, the quote "Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation. It is better be alone than in bad company." Is even stated in the link you posted that GW wrote those words down as a school boy. So maybe he didn't coin the phrase, however, he may have believed it.

It is obvious I didn't research the quotes to all be factual, and I apologize for that. It was getting late. However, there are many quotes and proclamations with sources that show George was a Religious man and believed we should give reverence to God for all of our blessings as a country when declaring Thanksgiving Day to be recognized.

[Chicken Fried]

Have you been attention to the language used by some on the Right over the last year? Do you think people talking about secession -- over health care reform -- was a "metaphor" as well?

The guy in the T.V. ad tapped a pistol: Is that a metaphor as well?

It's literal if you want it to be or a metaphor if you want it to be. Ask Rick Barber what he really means.

George Washington was leading an army to crush the Whiskey rebellion -- do you think that was "overreach"?

Yes, I do. George Washington is not the end all and be all of American government. I don't think he was nearly the demi-God he is made out to be.

The world is complex -- they would probably be pleased with our successes and displeased with our failures. I can certainly think of things that can fall into both categories, some of which is unrelated to "government overreach."

And with that in mind, do you think the BP spill was due to overreach, or perhaps not enough "reach"?

I think it was due to an accidental burst pipe. I can only imagine how much worse this would be with direct government involvement. Nothing ever goes right when the feds step in and try to fix something.

Did I somehow miss the Obama administration's military coup? Because, otherwise, I would like to hear more about your stance on this.

Also, with the War on Drugs and the War on Terror, we do have some issues with civil liberties, but those were already in place when Obama came into office, and, as far as I know, he hasn't done anything to worsen this (and nor has he done enough to improve it, either). Otherwise, can you cite some examples to support your POV?

My concern is his blatant decision to go against the Constitution. Here's a pretty self-explanatory list of some of the things I have against his administration. http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/10/how-unconstitutional-is-barack-obama-let-me-count-the-ways/

To a LESSER degree? What? It has been right-winger in the GOP who have PUSHED for programs that have affected our democracy, to the determinant of our Bill of Rights. (Case in point, the previously mentioned War on Drugs and War on Terror.)

Do you think the Cheney Energy Task Force was an open meeting? Why do you think BP were able to get away with laxly regulated drilling efforts? Halliburton was also working on the rig when the accident happened -- now, who do you think had a relationship with this company?

And do you know how many Republicans have been indicted for "backroom deals" and "bribes"? This isn't just a one party problem, by any means, but you appear to oblivious to the high number of Republicans who have been involved with shady dealings.

And photo ops . . . oh, like all the Republicans who had photo ops at state programs funded by the spending stimulus . . . after they voted against it, and calling the stimulus "generational theft"?

Hey, I admit the Republicans have many, many problems in this area. That's a reason I'm gravitating more toward a combination of Republican and libertarian. It seems like everyone wants to keep growing the government at the expense of Constitutional processes. I still believe, however, that the Republicans aren't as bad as the Democrats because at least many of the Republicans advocate smaller government while very, very few Dems do so.

The guy in this T.V. ad doesn't exactly strike me as a good alternative. I have heard the solutions from the Right, and that doesn't fill me with confidence, either.

Ron Paul.

[Predicto]

However, there are many quotes and proclamations with sources that show George was a Religious man and believed we should give reverence to God for all of our blessings as a country when declaring Thanksgiving Day to be recognized.

Most of those quotes are false, and most of those proclamations we done for political effect. Parson Weems made a huge effort after Washington's death to portray him as a pious Christian, and people have seized upon that myth every since.

Washington was a master politician, and if you wanted to get anywhere in Colonial society, you had to participate in church activities. But the real historical evidence actually tends to show that Washington was a Deist at best, and may even have been an agnostic. The rector of his own church, James Abercrombie, said he never took communion and concluded that he was a Deist. Thomas Jefferson and Governour Morris thought he was an athiest. His granddaughter, who lived with him, had no idea.

Basically, Washington was a private man who played his cards close to his chest and let people assume whatever they wanted to. Ever since, evangelical christians have assumed that he was one of theirs.

[Bang]

I think it was due to an accidental burst pipe. I can only imagine how much worse this would be with direct government involvement. Nothing ever goes right when the feds step in and try to fix something.

You are aware that this accident occured after the failsafe devices failed, and the BP site manager ordered them to continue rather than pay for the delay to repair it, right?

It was an accident like a person purposely driving on a broken axle has an accident.

You further realize that the rig itself is registered with the Marshall Islands ? Technically it isn't the US's responsibility or right to inspect a vessel flagged under another nation in international waters. In fact, it's against international law.

BP did this so they specifically could skirt our inspection process, which takes about 30 days. The Marshall Islands safety inspection takes a few hours.

Sorry to derail the thread, but I figured I'd try to pull your head out of the sand on this. This was no little accidental "oopsie". It was plain carelessness and a complete disregard anything but the bottom line that caused the problems that led to the accident.

It's OK to blame who was responsible. No one will question your loyalty because you know who F'd up.

Anyway, now back to the loony candidates with guns hinting at armed insurrection thread.

I do like the chick from Arizona. What a great campaign idea.

~Bang

[Sandman69]

Most of those quotes are false, and most of those proclamations we done for political effect. Parson Weems made a huge effort after Washington's death to portray him as a pious Christian, and people have seized upon that myth every since.

Washington was a master politician, and if you wanted to get anywhere in Colonial society, you had to participate in church activities. But the real historical evidence actually tends to show that Washington was a Deist at best, and may even have been an agnostic. The rector of his own church, James Abercrombie, said he never took communion and concluded that he was a Deist. Thomas Jefferson and Governour Morris thought he was an athiest. His granddaughter, who lived with him, had no idea.

Basically, Washington was a private man who played his cards close to his chest and let people assume whatever they wanted to. Ever since, evangelical christians have assumed that he was one of theirs.

For the record, Most would not equal three Washington quotes. I have updated my post with the quotes and added others that were documented.

His Proclamations at Thanksgiving don't sound like a Deist or an Athiest.

[Predicto]

For the record, Most would not equal three Washington quotes. I have updated my post with the quotes and added others that were documented.

His Proclamations at Thanksgiving don't sound like a Deist or an Athiest.

Well, you don't know very many politicians then.

I won't go quote for quote with you because it is annoying, but if you really are interested, here's a short read on the subject that you might enjoy.

http://www.virginiaplaces.org/religion/religiongw.html

[Sandman69]

Well, you don't know very many politicians then.

I won't go quote for quote with you because it is annoying, but if you really are interested, here's a short read on the subject that you might enjoy.

http://www.virginiaplaces.org/religion/religiongw.html

If that is the case, there are still other Founding Fathers that are. My point is still valid.

So are you saying if the Founding Fathers witnessed how the US is now, they would be 100% for everything we stand for and have done? You don't think they would have some issues?

Listen I am not for the tool in the video, however, I don't think what he is doing or saying is 100% wrong.

[The Evil Genius]

So are you saying if the Founding Fathers witnessed how the US is now, they would be 100% for everything we stand for and have done? You don't think they would have some issues?

I suspect, nearly 100% of them would have problems with women and non-whites being treated equally with white males.

Lot of good romanticizing these guys does, huh?

[Bang]

If that is the case, there are still other Founding Fathers that are. My point is still valid.

So are you saying if the Founding Fathers witnessed how the US is now, they would be 100% for everything we stand for and have done? You don't think they would have some issues?

Listen I am not for the tool in the video, however, I don't think what he is doing or saying is 100% wrong.

Well, evolution isn't perfect.

After all, look at this:

~Bang

[SkinsHokieFan]

Did you know you could be arrested in Alabama for being Pakistani without a license?

I think they mistook me for being Italian when I was there with gf back in December

[Baculus]

It's literal if you want it to be or a metaphor if you want it to be. Ask Rick Barber what he really means.

That is a problem with his ad: Someone can look at it and see it as an inciting for violence.

It's a bit spineless, if you ask me. "Oh, I REALLY didn't mean to suggest armed violence." A person needs to say what they mean -- don't beat around the bush with wishy-washy stuff.

Yes, I do. George Washington is not the end all and be all of American government. I don't think he was nearly the demi-God he is made out to be.

None of the Founding Fathers were demigods or infallible, which is the problem with this candidates ad.

I think it was due to an accidental burst pipe. I can only imagine how much worse this would be with direct government involvement. Nothing ever goes right when the feds step in and try to fix something.

It was a burst pipe from BP cutting corners in an attempt to save money. Do you realize that "accidents" happen when shoddy work is performed?

Let me ask you this -- how is LESS government intervention going to make a positive difference? Can you please explain how a smaller government role actually helped the Gulf of Mexico BP spill?

Your reply is puzzling, because this "accident" happened from a LACK of government oversight. i.e., a lack of government "intervention." BP is also responsible for a number of problems in other states, including a number of spills in Alaska. Why? Because BP, as one of their workers has reported, will not replace parts of make repairs until something is worn out, which results in cracked pipes, joints, seepage and oil spills.

I fail to see why you would trust this entity more than the government. The role of BP is to make a profit -- if that means cutting corners, then so be it, even if it harms American citizens. The role of a government institution is to benefit the public -- us . . . We the People. To me, your opinion seems more determined by ideology as opposed to practical reality; that is, an anarcho-capitalist view of government vs. a capitalist entity.

Even more ironically, the right-wing have now attacked the Obama administration for not reacting quickly enough, while basically echoing your views, that we need LESS regulation.

My concern is his blatant decision to go against the Constitution. Here's a pretty self-explanatory list of some of the things I have against his administration. http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/06/10/how-unconstitutional-is-barack-obama-let-me-count-the-ways/

That link is really reaching for it.

(1) TARP was pushed by the administration and passed in 2008, when Bush was President, but your link is trying to pin it on President Obama.

It's disingenuous.

(2) The auto-bailouts were voted upon by Congress. (HR 7321 was the bill, I believe). Which, BTW, also took place during the Bush administration. Your link keeps trying to imply that Pres. Obama simply wrote a check to Big Auto, when that isn't true.

Hey, I admit the Republicans have many, many problems in this area.

The Bush administration more than doubled the national debt, from five trillion to twelve trillion dollars. The spending deficit was $1.2 trillion dollars when Obama came into office. They don't just have "many, many problems" -- they ARE the problem.

And they continue to be a problem. Take, for example, Tea Party Republican Marco Rubio who wants to continue the Bush tax cuts, even thought these trillion dollar, trickle-down tax cuts for the wealth have added billions to the debt and haven't shown any job growth benefits.

Less taxes and less government regulation has to show its benefits. Right now, between the BP spill and the economic situation, such benefits have to be demonstrated.

That's a reason I'm gravitating more toward a combination of Republican and libertarian. It seems like everyone wants to keep growing the government at the expense of Constitutional processes.

The Republicans have been involved with Constitutional oversteps, so I have no idea why you would be interested in a Republican-libertarian fusionism, if that is your ideological interest.

I still believe, however, that the Republicans aren't as bad as the Democrats because at least many of the Republicans advocate smaller government while very, very few Dems do so.

The Republicans are hypocrites. Since the 80s, the greatest growth in the federal government has come from the Republicans: 75% of the national debt is from Republican administrations. In short, they are hypocrites who aren't worthy of your trust.

Democrats, for good or bad, tell you what they want to do. They aren't a perfect party, but they tend to be citizen-oriented, working to benefit the American public (which earns them the label of "socialists"). Republicans talk about "small government," but then expand social conservatism via government interventionism and increasing corporate welfare and the DOD budget via crony capitalism and the Iron Triangle.

[Predicto]

If that is the case, there are still other Founding Fathers that are.

Sure. They were a cross-section of the elite from that time. Lots of different views, many great minds.

My point is still valid.

No it really isn't.

So are you saying if the Founding Fathers witnessed how the US is now, they would be 100% for everything we stand for and have done? You don't think they would have some issues?

The Founding Fathers were not a monolithic entity. "They" would not have reacted at all the same, and it is impossible to know what they would have thought. The fact that the nation was still here and had not been reabsorbed by England or conquered by native Americans or disease would have made them happy, I suspect. Other than that, no valid generalizations are possible.

Listen I am not for the tool in the video, however, I don't think what he is doing or saying is 100% wrong.

No one is 100 percent wrong. But he is more wrong than most, and more simplistic and stupid than our elected officials should ever be.

[luckydevil]

Democrats, for good or bad, tell you what they want to do. They aren't a perfect party, but they tend to be citizen-oriented, working to benefit the American public (which earns them the label of "socialists").

LOL, I bet you honestly believe that

[dfitzo53]

I suspect, nearly 100% of them would have problems with women and non-whites being treated equally with white males.

Lot of good romanticizing these guys does, huh?

Not to mention the outrage of whites who don't own land voting.

And MTV. I don't think they'd get MTV.

[Bang]

Not to mention the outrage of whites who don't own land voting.

And MTV. I don't think they'd get MTV.

Hell I don't get MTV.

Give me a powdered wig and I'll solve everything!

~Bang

[mistertim]

It's literal if you want it to be or a metaphor if you want it to be. Ask Rick Barber what he really means.

I think you know better than that. Language and imagery are very powerful things, especially when used in certain ways. The people who make those sort of commercials are quite aware of that. By using certain types of language along with certain imagery (for example yelling about the American people being under "tyranny", "slavery", etc...and showing people with guns in various settings along with people dressed up as the founding fathers saying things like 'gather your armies' in response to his words and anger) the essential aim (and it is quite often successful) is to intentionally bypass the reasoning part of the brain and go straight for the fear and anger centers. Those parts of the brain are much older and are usually quite powerful in overwhelming rational, questioning thought and pulling people into a state of fear and anger without having to worry too much about them actually thinking it through.

I'm pretty sure that if he wanted to convey his beliefs they could have come up with a less crazy ass way of showing it. But they knew perfectly well that those commercials would appeal to certain people and would have a very visceral reaction. Why talk about issues when you can just yell about how the gov't is a tyranny and imply armed revolt? And if they actually did mean it to be purely 100% metaphorical, then they are complete idiots. You would think that, were that the case, they might look at it and say "hmm...you know, we're saying stuff metaphorically here and all...but I could see how some people could get the wrong impression and decide that a violence and armed revolts are actually the best way to deal with these issues..."