"Gather your armies" (Update: Barber fails to gather an army, loses primary)

[dfitzo53]

And if they actually did mean it to be purely 100% metaphorical, then they are complete idiots.

Are you making the case that they aren't already complete idiots?

[Sandman69]

No it really isn't.

Yes, it really is. I am sorry you can't see that simply saying George Washington wasn't a true Christian, that doesn't mean this country was founded on Christian principals. Besides, you stating that a few documented that GW wasn't, doesn't mean it is true. I mean, I got slammed by others

for not showing documented quotes on what was said. Did he ever say he wasn't?

Are there not enough documented quotes by GW, and more importantly, other founding fathers, that Christianity of some sort was part of their belief system?

Just because Predicto doesn't think my argument is still valid, doesn't prove anything.

There are plenty of quotes by GW as well as other Founding fathers that show their belief in Strong Morality and Religious beliefs.

I am sure they would be very proud of some of our Presidents antics in the White House. Including but not limited to a stained dress and a famous Cigar. That is at least my opinion.

"They" would not have reacted at all the same, and it is impossible to know what they would have thought.

However, you would know they wouldn't have reacted at all the same? Pure Ironic Gold...

[Predicto]

Yes, it really is. I am sorry you can't see that simply saying George Washington wasn't a true Christian, that doesn't mean this country was founded on Christian principals.

It wasn't founded on "Christian principles." It was founded on Enlightenment principles, by people who were Christians.

Besides, you stating that a few documented that GW wasn't, doesn't mean it is true. I mean, I got slammed by others

for not showing documented quotes on what was said. Did he ever say he wasn't?

I just told you I'm not going to play the quotes game with you. It's a dead end. You can find quotes by Richard Nixon on integrity, or Bill Clinton on personal morality. Do they prove anything?

Did you read the article I linked you, or not?

Are there not enough documented quotes by GW, and more importantly, other founding fathers, that Christianity of some sort was part of their belief system?

Of course it was. But they didn't create a government based on "Christian principles." Every aspect of the government they created goes back to John Locke, Edmund Burke, Montesquieu, and other Enlightenment figures.

The whole POINT of the Enlightenment was to emphasize reason in the structuring of society and science. The government the Founders created was based on cold hard reason, in direct opposition to faith (religious or otherwise) . It was not "Christian," and it was not anti-Christian either.

Just because Predicto doesn't think my argument is still valid, doesn't prove anything.

This is kind of pulling rank, but Predicto has read many books on this subject, Predicto majored in political science in college, Predicto studied law, and Predicto still practices constitutional law working for a court.

There are plenty of quotes by GW as well as other Founding fathers that show their belief in Strong Morality and Religious beliefs.

Many of them certainly did that. Others did not. Goveneur Morris was an athiest. Franklin, Jefferson, Paine and (probably) Washington were Deists.

It is also absolutely true that they did not choose to structure their government on a religious basis. They chose to structure their government on the principles of the Enlightenment. A million quotes out of context do not change that fact.

I am sure they would be very proud of some of our Presidents antics in the White House. Including but not limited to a stained dress and a famous Cigar. That is at least my opinion.

What does that have to do with anything we are discussing?

However, you would know they wouldn't have reacted at all the same? Pure Ironic Gold...

Because I have read the debates of the Constitutional Convention, and the Federalist Papers, etc. The Founders were not a monolithic entity. Alexander Hamilton and James Madison and Thomas Jefferson and John Adams did not all feel the same way about anything, and after the Constitutional Convention was over, they all disagreed about what they had actually created and we have been fighting those battles ever since.

The great thing the Founders did was that they compromised, and finessed awkward issues, and generally did the best they could to create something greater than themselves that they thought might work. But they did not all think in lockstep, and it is not possible to determine now exactly what they thought then, because they thought all sorts of different things then.

[The Sisko]

I can't believe this ad ran on the tube.

I can, but then I live here. :laugh: Georgia politicians are pretty worthless...even by the standards of politicians. I give them one thing though, they usually manage to provide major comic relief in the process. :laugh: Besides, if I didn't laugh at them I'd have to actually be embarrassed.

The really funny thing about that ad is that it makes reference to the two primary issues that lost Barnes re-election, i.e. dissing the teacher's union and supporting the idea of getting rid of the stars and bars on the GA flag. Of course his GOP successor didn't come through on his promise to restore the stars and bars so I guess that should make Sonny more of the rat than Barnes. But then I'm quite accustomed to our folks on the right having a separate set of standards for the GOP.

I just want to point out that at least a few of your quotes are fakes....

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=33357

Clearly more liber-al media propoganda. I have it on very good authority that ole G. Wash. was a card carrying member of the moral majority. So there!

I've been hired to write and produce his next ad.

I'm thinking of the Statue of Liberty getting pissed about immigrants coming to take our jobs.

Maybe they could hire some of these guys for the shoot. They'd be perfect.

LOL, I bet you honestly believe that

Just one question. Which party still has a strong, vocal and functioning component of the opposite side of the aisle that keeps it somewhere close to the political center? *Hint: It's not the side currently running hard to the political extreme while cleansing itself of "RINOs".

[SnyderShrugged]

Just one question. Which party still has a strong, vocal and functioning component of the opposite side of the aisle that keeps it somewhere close to the political center? *Hint: It's not the side currently running hard to the political extreme while cleansing itself of "RINOs".

I believe both major parties have member organizations like those you mention.

http://www.rlc.org/

this is an example within the GOP and I know there is one similar in the Democrat party.

Take off your party glasses for awhile and you will see both R and D have good and bad within.

[luckydevil]

Just one question. Which party still has a strong, vocal and functioning component of the opposite side of the aisle that keeps it somewhere close to the political center? *Hint: It's not the side currently running hard to the political extreme while cleansing itself of "RINOs".

As much as I despise the republican party and it's base ( other wise known as the tea party), the real problem in this country is the political center. The side that gave us two failed wars and unlimited corporatism.

[The Sisko]

I believe both major parties have member organizations like those you mention.

http://www.rlc.org/

this is an example within the GOP and I know there is one similar in the Democrat party.

Take off your party glasses for awhile and you will see both R and D have good and bad within.

I never said they don't, merely that the GOP seems dead set on cleansing itself of moderates. I personally got the message and finally abandoned ship a few months ago. Call me a RINO or whatever you want. However what you won't be able to call me is someone who voted GOP and you damned sure won't be calling me a donor or part of your grassroots support again anytime soon...not until the pandering to the Tea Party wingnuts phase is over and some sanity comes back to the party.

Now perhaps the GOP can still win elections without voters like me and instead rely on pandering solely to idiots like the gather your armies, zombie Lincoln nutjob. I'm betting they can't...certainly not over the long haul. After all, how long can one incorrectly predict the end of the world (i.e. U.N. takeovers, slavery, etc.) before people start to drift away? And when the Birch Society, 'er Tea Party peters out after the midterm elections or after Obama's re-election, perhaps then the GOP will be willing to disavow the wingnuts and well meaning simpletons that make up the majority of the Birch Society, 'er Tea Party and return to some semblance of sanity.

In the meantime, I'll continue my active support for independent issues like open primaries and instant runoff voting, and most importantly, keep my fingers crossed for a Sarah Palin GOP POTUS nomination in 2012.

[Baculus]

Take off your party glasses for awhile and you will see both R and D have good and bad within.

That is true, but the Republicans appear on getting rid of much of their "good" base, in the moderates and traditional liberal elements of their party.

I don't recall you being a huge fan of Palin -- would you prefer that the GOP became more like her base, or more like the Ron Paul Republican/libertarian base?

I think I know the answer to that one!

[SkinsHokieFan]

Well it looks like poor Mr. Barber lost his race for the nomination

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/governors/bentley-clinches-republican-no.html

In the 2nd district runoff, establishment Republicans saw their preferred candidate, Montgomery Councilor Martha Roby, cruise to a victory over tea-party supported businessman Rick Barber.

Roby, who placed first in the June primary with 49 percent, was the heavy favorite going into the runoff but Barber sought to mobilize his tea party supporters with controversial ads in which he urged voters to "gather your armies" and equated the administration's economic policies to slavery. Roby will face freshman Rep. Bobby Bright (D) in the fall; a poll conducted for Bright's campaign in February showed him leading Roby 54 percent to 30 percent in a general election match-up

[Dan T.]

Well it looks like poor Mr. Barber lost his race for the nomination

"Disband Your Armies"

[@DCGoldPants]

Gather your Community College History Classes.......came come with me!