CSM: Ecological risk grows as Deepwater Horizon oil rig sinks in Gulf

[AsburySkinsFan]

I know. This may be the worst case scenario, but it is the kind of thing us tree-huggers are (justifiably) worried about.

Exactly, when we heard Palin drumming on about "drill baby drill", talking about further exploration around the US, we talked about these things and we were told chided for being utopian tree huggers. Then when something does happen and we say, "see this is what we were talking about" we're told "meh, its not that big of a deal." After all the rounds of excuse making and rationalizations some of us IMO justifiably begin to develop the opinion that some just don't give a rats arse.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Big Oil Fought Off New Safety Rules Before Rig Disaster

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/26/big-oil-fought-off-new-sa_n_552575.html

[twa]

You got any idea how many accidents/leaks/blowouts/spills there have been? I only showed a few but there were many to choose from.

Your claim that spills from rigs are so unlikely as to be a nonfactor is absurd.

Yes I have a pretty good idea since I follow oil topics

And yet all those spills add up to a fraction of spills shipping oil causes.

Unless you are simply concerned with worker safety..if so I commend you

I have never claimed it is a non-factor,simply that it is much less risk than shipping it in from others.(like Pemex,Venezuela or Brazil where safety standards are less than strict)

What different response will you see if there is a accident from one of those off Cuba or Mexico?

[nonniey]

Exactly, when we heard Palin drumming on about "drill baby drill", talking about further exploration around the US, we talked about these things and we were told chided for being utopian tree huggers. Then when something does happen and we say, "see this is what we were talking about" we're told "meh, its not that big of a deal." After all the rounds of excuse making and rationalizations some of us IMO justifiably begin to develop the opinion that some just don't give a rats arse.

I've got to admit I have a lot of disdain for those who are opposed to offshore drilling for environmental reasons given the fact the more oil produced here the fewer miles tankers are required to transport oil. In effect they would choose a more polluted ocean if given the choice on this issue.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I've got to admit I have a lot of disdain for those who are opposed to offshore drilling for environmental reasons given the fact the more oil produced here the fewer miles tankers are required to transport oil. In effect they would choose a more polluted ocean if given the choice on this issue.

In my past experience with your opinions you have a lot of disdain for anyone who disagrees with you.

BTW, the picture you paint might be true IF and ONLY IF drilling off the US coast line meant that we weren't STILL receiving those tankers from overseas, as it is REALITY shows that drilling off US coast lines is just MORE.

[Midnight Judges]

I've got to admit I have a lot of disdain for those who are opposed to offshore drilling for environmental reasons given the fact the more oil produced here the fewer miles tankers are required to transport oil. In effect they would choose a more polluted ocean if given the choice on this issue.

Your data is faulty at best. Pollution statistics from oil rigs rely heavily on oil companies reporting it. You and TWA have no problem getting your information on this topic directly from the Oil companies and people who are funded by the oil companies. Personally, I think that is a massive conflict of interest and I don't trust those sources.

4 million gallons of oil went into the gulf of Mexico after Katrina, not because of tankers, but because of rigs. That's 75% as much oil as was spilled from the largest American tanker spill ever (the Valdez). Seems to me the Valdez accident was easily preventable. These oil rig leaks are routine after a Hurricane. And there will always be Hurricanes in the Gulf. Less likely on the East Coast but when you consider some of these rigs are 30 years old, oil spills from rigs are inevitable. Not so for tankers.

[twa]

NOAA, Woods Hole Oceanographic ect are faulty sources?

Lemmings:beatdeadhorse:

[Burgold]

NOAA, Woods Hole Oceanographic ect are faulty sources?

Lemmings:beatdeadhorse:

You don't get to use the lemmings tact this week. Not when the damage is real and not hypothetical.

You can talk about acceptable risks or even how hard it is to get oil out of tar fields, but it ain't being a lemming if it's real

[twa]

You don't get to use the lemmings tact this week. Not when the damage is real and not hypothetical.

You can talk about acceptable risks or even how hard it is to get oil out of tar fields, but it ain't being a lemming if it's real

Why not?

If you wish to rush to conclusions or over a cliff it seems only fitting.

Strange that massive influx of evil oil from Katrina did not destroy the environment.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Strange that massive influx of evil oil from Katrina did not destroy the environment.

This smacks of arrogance twa. You can't put that much oil out there without it having a severe impact, just because you don't see it like with the Valdez doesn't mean it isn't having a severe impact.

BTW, "evil oil" & "destroy the environment" Your rhetoric needs work.

[Burgold]

Can you really authoritatively say this? How was the sea life effected? There was so much damage who knows what came from where and there was so much human loss and loss in general from the storm that all the mess got lumped together. No one focused on the damage of this or that. It was all Katrina damage.

[twa]

A impact certainly,the severity is to be determined and nothing good comes of wild speculation....or ignoring facts.

Arrogant? :evilg:

[AsburySkinsFan]

It was all Katrina damage.

And it will take decades to be able to gauge the full breadth of the damage caused.

[twa]

Bur there were numerous studies

enjoy

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=katrina+oil+spill+impact+studies&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

[AsburySkinsFan]

Bur there were numerous studies

enjoy

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=katrina+oil+spill+impact+studies&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

Just so you know that citing a google search that came up with the key words "katrina" "oil spill" and "study" proves nothing, especially considering that some of the hits are names of women, others have to do with the city etc. Find the studies that show that the oil being pumped and or controlled by humans (that would not have ordinarily been around) hasn't caused serious environmental damage.

[twa]

Just so you know that citing a google search that came up with the key words "katrina" "oil spill" and "study" proves nothing, especially considering that some of the hits are names of women, others have to do with the city etc. Find the studies that show that the oil being pumped and or controlled by humans (that would not have ordinarily been around) hasn't caused serious environmental damage.

He asked specific to Katrina,I have already linked to studies on effect of oil in our oceans(both natural and that man discharges) and breakdowns of known sources

Your lawn fertilizer causes serious environmental damage...as does many things including oil

And as long as we are being technical,Katrina ain't a city;)

[Drockvb]

This is turning into a nightmare. And yeah, i still think drilling in the ocean is ridiculous.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36800673/ns/us_news-environment/

Quoting from the AP via MSNBC

NEW ORLEANS - Crews will begin drilling by Thursday as part of a $100 million effort to take the pressure off of a blown-out well that is spewing an estimated 42,000 gallons of crude oil a day into the Gulf of Mexico, BP said Tuesday.

The drilling, which is expected to take two or three months, is part of a two-track strategy. The second part has crews building a dome to be placed atop the leaking pipe as an interim step.

Robotic subs sent down to try to activate a switch to stop the flow have so far failed.

here's the fun part

If the well cannot be closed, almost 100,000 barrels of oil, or 4.2 million gallons, could spill into the gulf before the relief well is operating. The worst oil spill in U.S. history was when the Exxon Valdez spilled 11 million gallons in Alaska's Prince William Sound in 1989.

[sjinhan]

This is turning into a nightmare. And yeah, i still think drilling in the ocean is ridiculous.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36800673/ns/us_news-environment/

Quoting from the AP via MSNBC

here's the fun part

for all the people that thinking that drilling offshore is too risky... you have three options

1) let us know if you have a way to providing an alternative way to provide for all of world's energy needs that we can use RIGHT NOW.

2) well its is much less riskier to drill onshore so then open up more of the "protected" areas for new drilling

3) just do your part by going off the power grid, stop driving, and go live your life in an amish village

otherwise, please keep your "OMG Oil companies are EVIL" comments to yourself.

[Burgold]

That's a pretty weak argument. There are a myriad of options.

There's wind, solar, hydro, geothermal, and nuclear just for starters. Add to that the ability to get oil from land, from tarpits, etc.

But more importantly, that you have such a flippant attitude about such a horrific man-made disaster is just sad.

[abdcskins]

Mankind cannot harm our environment. The Republican Party has proved this over and over again and I fully believe everything they say about it.

I guffawed.

This is so horrible. That many tons of oil being leaked into the ocean is just unbelievebly bad. We were able to avoid a disaster at the Great Barrier Reef a few weeks ago, thankfully, now this crap. Just leave nature alone geez.

[sjinhan]

That's a pretty weak argument. There are a myriad of options.

There's wind, solar, hydro, geothermal, and nuclear just for starters. Add to that the ability to get oil from land, from tarpits, etc.

But more importantly, that you have such a flippant attitude about such a horrific man-made disaster is just sad.

no I dont take that accident lightly. What I find even more sad is that there are guys out there in my industry who in the day in and day out putting our life at risk and spending 60-100 hrs a week away from the family to produce the energy that the world needs. But we are always the bad guys who dont give a @#$@ about the environment when thats probably farthest from the truth.

Even if we were so greedy and evil like some of you guys might want to think, these type of accidents or even small spills are something that we want to avoid at all cost because they hurt the bottom line of these companies as much as it hurts the environments...

you say there is myraid of alternative energy option but is any of them or even ALL of them combined provide enough to take the world off of oil? Right now they are just lab experiments relative to the world energy demands... Like i said if offshore drilling is so offensive then let us drill on land but people complain about that too...

At the end of the day, we have 11-12 guys who died on that rig trying to get the oil that world needs and the industry as a whole is hurting over what happened. If you dont believe me thats fine but I know thats a fact as one of the guys who actually have gone through the daily grind of the oilfield.

What I can't stand is how my industry is always vilified when the people who complain how industry's extraordinary efforts to produce the oil and gas that world needs to function when they are also the first to complain when the energy prices go up!

[Burgold]

The thing is it's not an all or nothing scenario. We need to get better at all of it. Our refineries aren't efficient enough. We waste a tremendous ammount. We need to improve how we develop, how we refine, and transport oil. We need to work on alternatives. And we need to do so minimizing risk as much as possible.

[sjinhan]

The thing is it's not an all or nothing scenario. We need to get better at all of it. Our refineries aren't efficient enough. We waste a tremendous ammount. We need to improve how we develop, how we refine, and transport oil. We need to work on alternatives. And we need to do so minimizing risk as much as possible.

well of course we need all options at our disposal when trying to figure out the energy supply problems out in the future. But seriously in the oilfield and especially in the offshore environment, the industry takes safety AND environment concerns more seriously than most realize.

I might have gotten little sensitive when I felt that some in this thread of attacking the industry as whole over this incident thinking that we dont give a crap about this when in fact it actually pains alot of us in the industry.

[Teller]

That's a pretty weak argument. There are a myriad of options.

There's wind, solar, hydro, geothermal, and nuclear just for starters. Add to that the ability to get oil from land, from tarpits, etc.

But more importantly, that you have such a flippant attitude about such a horrific man-made disaster is just sad.

I personally can't wait to drive my nuclear-powered Ford Focus.

[Burgold]

well of course we need all options at our disposal when trying to figure out the energy supply problems out in the future. But seriously in the oilfield and especially in the offshore environment, the industry takes safety AND environment concerns more seriously than most realize.

I might have gotten little sensitive when I felt that some in this thread of attacking the industry as whole over this incident thinking that we dont give a crap about this when in fact it actually pains alot of us in the industry.

I get that. I sometimes get revved up when I hear people say that the media is a bunch of lazy biased bums out to serve their evil masters. As a free lance journalist, I know how hard I work and others do to get it right. As in your field, that doesn't mean there aren't mistakes and that the mistakes can't be disatrous, but most of the time there is a great effort to be honest and tell the story as well as is possible... at least in the NPR universe I know best.

Still, when I think about what could happen in offshore drilling it makes me skittish because I know that accidents are likely to happen because humans can't be perfect and when accidents do happen in that environment they're likely to be really bad.