CSM: Ecological risk grows as Deepwater Horizon oil rig sinks in Gulf

[twa]

there are times when I read these threads that wonder if some of those on the "no harm" side are just another variation of birther. In this very thread, you have several articles detailing 1000's if gallons of oil spilling and contaminating the ocean and yet the response from several seem to be that "rigs don't leak" or extremist posits like the one you have just given. I know you are much more reasonable than the post above. I know that you have concerns for your children about the degree to which we are polluting and poisoning our homes and air.

Sure, there has to be a balance and we all decide that certain risks are within tolerance, but one should not deny that we are consciously compromising and that those compromises could end worse (or better) than we fear.

I'm curious if you would support emergency relief well drilling to stop/reduce a known oil leak of 2,000-3,000 barrels of oil a day?

What if I told you the state knew about it and did nothing about it for yrs? :evilg:

http://oils.gpa.unep.org/facts/natural-sources.htm

NOAA describe a natural seepage area in California: "One of the best-known areas where this happens is Coal Oil Point along the California Coast near Santa Barbara. An estimated 2,000 to 3,000 gallons of crude oil is released naturally from the ocean bottom every day just a few miles offshore from this beach".

OMG where's a cliff to run off when ya need one ?

Does this provide a bit of perspective?...I aim to serve

[Jumbo]

Finally clicked on this to see episode #24,576 of...

VS.

"What did one lemming say to the other?"

"Lemmings!!!!!"

:ols::ols:

[Burgold]

I've got a really bad pun about a relief effort and if you've got to many lemmings you might as well make some lemming-aid, but even in my fever induced state I fear that the pun may be too painful.

This dang bug won't break. argh.

[PeterMP]

I'm curious if you would support emergency relief well drilling to stop/reduce a known oil leak of 2,000-3,000 barrels of oil a day?

What if I told you the state knew about it and did nothing about it for yrs?

http://oils.gpa.unep.org/facts/natural-sources.htm

NOAA describe a natural seepage area in California: "One of the best-known areas where this happens is Coal Oil Point along the California Coast near Santa Barbara. An estimated 2,000 to 3,000 gallons of crude oil is released naturally from the ocean bottom every day just a few miles offshore from this beach".

OMG where's a cliff to run off when ya need one ?

Does this provide a bit of perspective?...I aim to serve

We've discussed this before. I thought we agreed the comparision between an artificial leak as compared to a long standing natural leak was intellectually dishonest and would only be attempted by somebody like Watts who's page is full of intellectually dishonest garbage?

[twa]

This dang bug won't break. argh.

Drown it in liquor

Tequila and lime is a great source of vitamin C

[Jumbo]

I usually use the term on those posters who are flailing at me in self-destruct mode as part of some "conflict with perceived authority" issues. I'll suggest to them they're channeling their "inner lemming" and then post a visual aid:

[twa]

We've discussed this before. I thought we agreed the comparision between an artificial leak as compared to a long standing natural leak was intellectually dishonest and would only be attempted by somebody like Watts who's page is full of intellectually dishonest garbage?

That's what thinking gets ya:ols:

But if I recall correctly your objection was over the gradual release variation as related to the totals vs a single catastrophic event.

The daily releases are very comparable in this case(with the Cali one mentioned being greater by a factor of 3),of course that is going by a guesstimate on the Gulf one.

Are you saying the oil has a different effect/composition if it comes from a well?

added

There is one clear difference in that the one in the Gulf is having millions thrown at stopping it

[Seabee1973]

Too many NIMBY's for that.

Lemmings :beatdeadhorse:

Reminds me of Diane fienstein lets go Solar power but not put them in the desert

[zoony]

I guess I'm wondering why there isn't similar outrage at this Swiss company as there was against the WV coal mine owner.

[twa]

I guess I'm wondering why there isn't similar outrage at this Swiss company as there was against the WV coal mine owner.

Give them time,we have a environmental crisis on our hands to be outraged over first.

The parties involved have naturally already filed suit

[PeterMP]

I'm curious if you would support emergency relief well drilling to stop/reduce a known oil leak of 2,000-3,000 barrels of oil a day?

What if I told you the state knew about it and did nothing about it for yrs?

http://oils.gpa.unep.org/facts/natural-sources.htm

NOAA describe a natural seepage area in California: "One of the best-known areas where this happens is Coal Oil Point along the California Coast near Santa Barbara. An estimated 2,000 to 3,000 gallons of crude oil is released naturally from the ocean bottom every day just a few miles offshore from this beach".

OMG where's a cliff to run off when ya need one ?

Does this provide a bit of perspective?...I aim to serve

We've discussed this before. I thought we agreed the comparision between an artificial leak as compared to a long standing natural leak was intellectually dishonest and would only be attempted by somebody like Watts who's page is full of intellectually dishonest garbage?

[twa]

We've discussed this before. I thought we agreed the comparision between an artificial leak as compared to a long standing natural leak was intellectually dishonest and would only be attempted by somebody like Watts who's page is full of intellectually dishonest garbage?

Deja vu

But if I recall correctly your objection was over the gradual release variation as related to the totals vs a single catastrophic event.

The daily releases are very comparable in this case(with the Cali one mentioned being greater by a factor of 3),of course that is going by a guesstimate on the Gulf one.

Are you saying the oil has a different effect/composition if it comes from a well?

added

There is one clear difference in that the one in the Gulf is having millions thrown at stopping it

yet another addition

Do you consider these intellectually dishonest?

new research by scientists from UC Santa Barbara and the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI),

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090513130944.htm

[AsburySkinsFan]

42,000 gallons a day, good grief, I guess the statements about there being no leak were...well let's just say premature.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/25/AR2010042500240.html?hpid=artslot

NEW ORLEANS -- It could take hours or it could take months to stop a 42,000-gallon-a-day oil leak polluting the Gulf of Mexico at the site of a wrecked drilling platform. Whether the environmental threat grows many times bigger depends on whether the oil company can turn the well completely off.

Crews are using robot submarines to activate valves at the well head in hopes of cutting off the leak, which threatens the Gulf Coast's fragile ecosystem of shrimp, fish, birds and coral. If the effort fails, they'll have to start drilling again.

The submarine work will take 24 to 36 hours, Doug Suttles, chief operating officer for BP Exploration and Production, said Sunday afternoon.

"I should emphasize this is a highly complex operation being performed at 5,000 feet below the surface and it may not be successful," he said.

Oil continued to leak nearly a mile underwater Sunday at the site where the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded on Tuesday. Eleven workers are missing and presumed dead.

For the second consecutive day, high waves prevented boats and equipment from going out to clean the spill. Airplanes sprayed chemicals to break up the oil.

The spill initially appeared to be easily manageable after the oil rig sank Thursday about 50 miles off the Louisiana coast, but it has turned into a more serious environmental problem. Officials on Saturday discovered the leak, which is spewing as much as 1,000 barrels - or 42,000 gallons - of oil each day.

The oil spill has been growing - officials said the oily sheen on the surface of the gulf covered about 600 square miles Sunday. The environmental damage would be especially serious if it reaches land.

The spill was still about 70 miles from the mainland, but only about 30 miles from an important chain of barrier islands known as the Chandeleurs.

The islands, part of a national wildlife refuge, are an important nesting ground for pelicans and other sea birds. They have been under serious threat since Hurricane Katrina washed out much of the sand there.

"Katrina did kick it pretty good, but they have been growing back," said Greg Thornton, the 52-year-old owner of Horn Island and Due South Charters in Biloxi. He takes fishing parties out to the islands.

Looking at wind patterns on his computer, which showed favorable conditions until Thursday, Thornton held out hope that the oil could be contained.

"We might have some trouble if they don't get the boom around it and stop it from spreading," he said.

The spill so far appears to be small relative to some major oil accidents. The Exxon Valdez spilled 11 million gallons in Alaska's Prince William Sound in 1989 - the worst oil spill in U.S. history.

"It has the potential to be pretty serious, but at 1,000 barrels a day, if it comes to the surface they'll probably be able to contain it and vacuum it up," said James Cowan, an oceanography and coastal sciences professor at Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge.

The company is planning to collect leaking oil on the ocean bottom by lowering a large dome to capture the oil and using pipes and hoses to pump it into a vessel on the surface, said Suttles, the BP executive.

"That system has been deployed in shallower water," he said, "but it has never been deployed at 5,000 feet of water, so we have to be careful."

The robot submarines are attempting to close off the flow of oil by activating a shutoff device at the well head known as a blowout preventer.

In case that doesn't work, BP PLC, which leased the Deepwater, moved another deepwater rig, the DD3, toward the explosion site. If necessary, the new rig would drill relief wells into the damaged well underneath the ocean floor. That could take several months.

Benton F. Baugh, who holds patents for blowout preventer parts, said the subs should be able to do the job.

"If they can't get it closed off, something really unusual happened," said Baugh, president of Radoil Inc. in Houston and a National Academy of Engineering member.

Kenneth E. Arnold, an offshore production facility expert and another member of the engineering academy, said drilling a relief well is not an easy task.

"You have to intersect the well," he said. "Sometimes you have to drill through the steel, and that's what happened in Australia. It took them three times before they were successful."

He was referring to a blowout on the West Atlas rig in the Timor Sea last August. It wasn't until November that mud could be pumped through a relief well to shut off the deepwater spigot. The oil spill has resulted in major environmental damage along the coast of East Timor and Indonesia.

Coast Guard officials said weather conditions for the next three days would help keep the Gulf spill away from the coast.

Mark Schexnayder, a regional coastal adviser at the Louisiana Sea Grant, said the oil spill had the potential to do long-term damage to the coastal environment. The location of the spill is crisscrossed by marine species, including sperm whales, whale sharks, sea turtles, grouper and porpoises, he said.

"We're a month away from opening up the inshore shrimp season, crab season is just getting underway," he said. "It could close oyster beds."

BP said it has activated an extensive oil spill response, including the robot submarines, 700 workers, four planes and 32 vessels to mop up the spill and spray chemicals that will disperse the oil.

The Marine Spill Response Corp., an energy industry cleanup consortium, also brought in equipment. So far, crews have retrieved about 1,143 barrels of oily water.

Complicating efforts to stop the leak is the well head's depth at 5,000 feet underwater, said Lars Herbst, the regional director for the U.S. Minerals Management Service, which regulates oil rigs. Leaks have been fixed at similar depths before, but the process is difficult, he said.

The explosion appeared to be a blowout, in which natural gas or oil forces its way up a well pipe and smashes the equipment. But precisely what went wrong is under investigation.

[Midnight Judges]

*ahem* for the folks who claim this happens so infrequently as to not even be a factor, this was a mere 5 Months ago in the Timor Sea.

[twa]

Ahem,for those that sensationalize the risks...look at the numbers:beatdeadhorse:

You want to give up on oil w/o a viable alternative feel free

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2009-summer/original-alternative-energy-market.asp

Energy at the Speed of Thought:

The Original Alternative Energy Market

Alex Epstein

[AsburySkinsFan]

Ahem,for those that sensationalize the risks...look at the numbers:beatdeadhorse:

You want to give up on oil w/o a viable alternative feel free

Danggit twa who said we're giving up oil without a viable alternative. For crying out loud that strawman will burn faster than that oil rig.

What I called for is a stop to oil exploration, there is enough oil being pumped right now for the next hundred years, and if these companies and the world public finally start to feel the pressure, the WILL create an alternative the sheer demand will demand it. IMO the sooner the better.

[Midnight Judges]

2007 in the Gulf of Mexico:

[Midnight Judges]

2001 Gulf of Mexico:

[twa]

What I called for is a stop to oil exploration, there is enough oil being pumped right now for the next hundred years, and if these companies and the world public finally start to feel the pressure, the WILL create an alternative the sheer demand will demand it. IMO the sooner the better.

Uh, No there is not:),about three decades maybe

Alternatives are always possible...if you can afford it.:evilg:

We can do it now if you wish.

MJ you got any idea how many rigs are in the Gulf?

[Burgold]

getting away from all the political blather & excuse making...

What a horrible tragedy. I wonder if what will be lost can ever be recovered

[twa]

They are sucking up all the oil they can;)

If you are referring to the environment...yes ,nature is rather resilient

[Burgold]

I hope so. The guy I just heard being interviewed about the impact on the wetlands seemed pretty despondent.

[twa]

I hope so. The guy I just heard being interviewed about the impact on the wetlands seemed pretty despondent.

I'm sure he was.

There is a massive effort underway by professionals to mitigate any serious damage,and as long as the flow can be controlled there should be no major issues.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/6975535.html

The event has spawned one of the largest response efforts in the Gulf in decades. More than 1,000 people are on scene to assist in the efforts to contain and clean the spill — 700 of them with BP, according to the company.

The slick should remain at least 30 miles off shore for the next three days, based on weather forecasts. As of Sunday, 48,324 gallons of oily water had been collected by surface skimmers. Planes dropped 7,715 gallons of chemicals on Sunday to break up the oil and more than 100,000 gallons of the chemicals are available for use in the Gulf — one third of the world's supply, BP said.

..

[Burgold]

I know. This may be the worst case scenario, but it is the kind of thing us tree-huggers are (justifiably) worried about.

[Midnight Judges]

MJ you got any idea how many rigs are in the Gulf?

You got any idea how many accidents/leaks/blowouts/spills there have been? I only showed a few but there were many to choose from.

Your claim that spills from rigs are so unlikely as to be a nonfactor is absurd.