NBS: Time’s Klein: Beck, Palin Potentially Committing Sedition

[Special K]

Wow. This is so stupid. Can't wait to get back home where I can hear this bullcrap day in and day out on the news. Not.

[Larry]

I don't think Obama is a liberal. America hasn't had a liberal in Office since Johnson...... We had FDR, Truman, and Johnson... that was our modern liberal run..

Agreed. Anybody who claims Obama is a flaming liberal doesn't remember LBJ.

[Jumbo]

Liberals make me laugh.

Me too. Just not as much as conservatives the last two years. But tis the nature of things. Groups, like most individuals, take their turns at the top of Idiot Peak and the bottom of Lake Ignorance. But I do love and support our national park system.

[JMS]

Me too. Just not as much as conservatives the last two years. But tis the nature of things. Groups, like most individuals, take their turns at the top of Idiot Peak and the bottom of Lake Ignorance. But I do love and support our national park system.

I agree with that.

Fundimentally the difference between a conservative and a liberal is how they approach issues. I don't think anybody consistantly aproaches ever issue using either philosophy, and I think it's common for the accepted approach to change depending upon the time and cercumstances.

It's pointless to deamonize the other party, cause they might be you a few years down the road...

I never voted for a Democrate before Kerry in my life. Now I've sworn off Republicans for at least a decade after GW Bush.

[Predicto]

.

Frankly I think in normal times the danger of action overshaddows inaction. Viewing current events, and noting our unadjusted unemployment rate of nearly 18%, and two wars; I don't think we are living in normal times.

I think the opposite is true. In difficult times is when we have to be the most vigilant about holding true to our constitutional valuse, because difficult times is when those values really get tested.

The Japanese internment camps didn't happen during easy times. They happened when people were scared, and it suddenly seemed to dangerous to provide all Americans with due process and equal protection of the law anymore.

The same thing is true of free speech. You have to protect those rights when theings get heated, because it is when things get most heated that those rights are most likely to be lost.

[Veretax]

Listen I like what Tucker Carlson said like that. The election process is filled with metaphors, I mean Campaign? Targetted (as in Tax Cuts) etc. I think the left just don't like that the right actually has a grass roots movement now, and it scares them brickless.

[Teller]

they also rule over you at the moment. LoL

I'm glad to see a liberal finally say it, in an honest way.

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think the opposite is true. In difficult times is when we have to be the most vigilant about holding true to our constitutional valuse, because difficult times is when those values really get tested.

The Japanese internment camps didn't happen during easy times. They happened when people were scared, and it suddenly seemed to dangerous to provide all Americans with due process and equal protection of the law anymore.

The same thing is true of free speech. You have to protect those rights when theings get heated, because it is when things get most heated that those rights are most likely to be lost.

Very good post. I agree.

[JMS]

duplicate post.

[JMS]

I hope you are right. Sadly from a historical perspective I think you are being naive. Historically we have always curtailed political freedoms in the face of adversity; the only question is how far. Washington, Madison, Jackson, Lincoln, T. Roosevelt, Wilson, FDR, and Truman, all asked us to curtail our personal freedoms for the greater good.

Again what we face today is a pretty much gutted constitution. We have totally changed our law enforcement, judicial system, detention, and have a new and reduced understanding of personal freedoms under Bush. Not a peep out of the political supporters of these policies. But they find it outrageous to mandate civility in the face of political opposition? Seems like a small price to pay to me when trying to avert the looming crisis.

[Larry]

I never voted for a Democrate before Kerry in my life. Now I've sworn off Republicans for at least a decade after GW Bush.

You sound like me. First Democrat I voted for was Clinton.

[Larry]

I think the opposite is true. In difficult times is when we have to be the most vigilant about holding true to our constitutional valuse, because difficult times is when those values really get tested.

The Japanese internment camps didn't happen during easy times. They happened when people were scared, and it suddenly seemed to dangerous to provide all Americans with due process and equal protection of the law anymore.

The same thing is true of free speech. You have to protect those rights when theings get heated, because it is when things get most heated that those rights are most likely to be lost.

Also agreed.

Remembering a line from 2010: Whenever a President's gonna get us into serious :pooh:, they always use Lincoln.

[Destino]

I'm glad to see a liberal finally say it, in an honest way.

and I bet you think conservative impacts are less harshly felt in personal lives. I wonder if brown skinned Arizona residents will agree with you a year from now.

[Teller]

and I bet you think conservative impacts are less harshly felt in personal lives. I wonder if brown skinned Arizona residents will agree with you a year from now.

What in the world are you talking about?

My point was that "rule over" is FAR more accurate than "represent" right now.

[Destino]

What in the world are you talking about?

If the governor signs it I'll educate the board on it.

My point was that "rule over" is FAR more accurate than "represent" right now.

That's the feeling every person in a minority feels. You think anyone leaning left felt represented for 6 years?

[JimboDaMan]

What in the world are you talking about?

My point was that "rule over" is FAR more accurate than "represent" right now.

Please.

Trust me, GWB did not represent me. Committing a trillion dollars when all is done on an idiotic elective war that killed thousands of our country's bravest while accomplishing little other than trashing the name USA worldwide. I'm not about to argue the merits of Iraq. I'm saying that war was shoved down my throat, as was the domestic spying, torture of POWs, and any number of other things.

It infuriated me when Bush thumbed his nose at laws he signed by immediately issuing signing statements. It infuriated me when he shopped for legal opinions that allowed him to do things past presidents considered unconstitutional. What did people like me do? Did we make not-so-veiled threats of armed insurrection? No, we worked within the system, found a candidate we liked, and elected him.

That's how it works. There's no "ruling over" going on.

[Teller]

That's the feeling every person in a minority feels. You think anyone leaning left felt represented for 6 years?

The majority of AMERICANS were opposed to the healthcare bill. Are we one giant minority?

[Prosperity]

I really wish the reactionary conservatives would stop pretending like they are angry enough to "take back the country" or "fight big government" or whatever other bull**** they say to pretend like they are going to stand up to the Fed using violence.

Pulllleeease, they're not going to do anything of the kind. They just end up sounding like a bunch of posers pretending to be gangsters or guerilla fighters.

I wouldn't say sedition because they are obviously wind bags with nothing but bluster.

[10fttall]

I'm quoting the washington post, ny times, time magazine and cnn...

No, you quoted them AND you repeated over and over your little list of things that have allegedly been shouted at Tea Party rallies. Now yesterday, when I first read your thread, I had not read about the infiltrating groups that are actively trying to sabotage Tea Party rallies. I guessed that was the case, but since then I have seen stories about Jason Levin and the "Crash the Tea Party" website. If there was a group that was widely advertised to try these tactics, there are most certainly others.

So: your understanding and application of sedition is clearly ignorant, if not downright fraudulent just to gain attention. And the sources of these random crazy phrases being shouted, is not even remotely encouraged by the speaker, and in fact, is likely as not to be infiltrators acting stupid. I'm still waiting for you to call for a massive sting to arrest virtually every Democrat out there for stirring up "discontent" with Bush's government. Not just say, "Oh, both sides are hypocritical!" I mean put your money where your mouth is and call for sedition charges on all these Democrats that caused discontent with the government. I don't think we're past the statute of limitations yet.

[Teller]

That's how it works. There's no "ruling over" going on.

Well, then I apologize on Destino's behalf.

[ABQCOWBOY]

If the governor signs it I'll educate the board on it.

That's the feeling every person in a minority feels. You think anyone leaning left felt represented for 6 years?

I do think that many Liberals felt that way the last 8 years but I must confess, I do not completely understand why. I always felt as if GWB was pretty left leaning on a great many issues.

[Predicto]

I do think that many Liberals felt that way the last 8 years but I must confess, I do not completely understand why. I always felt as if GWB was pretty left leaning on a great many issues.

That's because you define "Left" as whatever you don't agree with, and "Right" as whatever you do agree with.

You can't get rid of Bush as easily as saying "oh, he's not a REAL conservative." (Go look up the "No Real Scotsman" logical fallacy). He ran as a conservative, conservatives voted for him, he put conservatives in poisitons of power all throughout his administation, neocons and religious conservative together ran that administration completely.

Sorry, Bush is your tarbaby, and he's stuck to your shoe.

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's because you define "Left" as whatever you don't agree with, and "Right" as whatever you do agree with.

You can't get rid of Bush as easily as saying "oh, he's not a REAL conservative." (Go look up the "No Real Scotsman" logical fallacy). He ran as a conservative, conservatives voted for him, he put conservatives in poisitons of power all throughout his administation, neocons and religious conservative together ran that administration completely.

Sorry, Bush is your tarbaby, and he's stuck to your shoe.

Your first statement is speculation.

I would say to you that I would not want to get rid of Bush, per say. I would take him over our current President right now. However, that is not why don't understand.

Bush did many things that were not Conservative from my point of view. I saw them as very Left leaning decisions at times. It didn't buy him any consideration from the Left though. They still hated him.

[Veretax]

That's because you define "Left" as whatever you don't agree with, and "Right" as whatever you do agree with.

You can't get rid of Bush as easily as saying "oh, he's not a REAL conservative." (Go look up the "No Real Scotsman" logical fallacy). He ran as a conservative, conservatives voted for him, he put conservatives in poisitons of power all throughout his administation, neocons and religious conservative together ran that administration completely.

Sorry, Bush is your tarbaby, and he's stuck to your shoe.

Easy, I'm a republican and I didn't cast a single vote for bush in 2000's primary. I had concerns about him not being conservative enough (because his father really wasn't all that conservative), and I had trust issues.

Unfortunately instead of nominating a candidate I could consider without laughing, the Dems put up Hug a Tree Al Gore. I just could not seriously vote for him, and what's worse Kerry as a 'cut and run' democrat et. al. didn't seem to be the best fit at that time either. I hated casting either vote. This is why I've resolved to try and make sure I'm involved earlier in the process rather than waiting till primaries roll around.

Honestly I don't know why noone ran against bush in 2004. Might have made the race more interesting

[herb mul-key]

Beck and Palin are bad for Amerika