NBS: Time’s Klein: Beck, Palin Potentially Committing Sedition

[JMS]

Couldn't fit the entire Headline..

It's pretty interesting. When does political dessent become sedition. Clearly we want to protect even encourage political dessent. But by the definition of the word, many are crossing the line into sedition. Many who cloak themselves in the flag and profess to be ubber patriots, are actively advocating rebellion and inciting discontent. Most are getting well paid for it too.

Sedition

1. incitement of discontent or rebellion against a government.

2. any action, esp. in speech or writing, promoting such discontent or rebellion.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sedition

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2010/04/18/time-s-klein-beck-palin-potentially-committing-sedition-against-u-s-gover

Time’s Klein: Beck, Palin Potentially Committing Sedition against U.S. Government; Heilemann Adds Limbaugh

Liberals are all too often eager to charge conservative personalities of using hyperbole to gain a political advantage, especially when it contradicts their world view - whether it's suggesting the Obama administration is taking the country down the path of socialism, fascism or any other -ism.

However, it could be argued there's a different set of standards for those same people when they want to make strong charges. On NBC's April 18 "The Chris Matthews Show," Time columnist Joe Klein all but accused former GOP vice-presidential nominee and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, along with Fox News host Glenn Beck of sedition.

"I did a little bit of research just before this show - it's on this little napkin here. I looked up the definition of sedition which is conduct or language inciting rebellion against the authority of the state. And a lot of these statements, especially the ones coming from people like Glenn Beck and to a certain extent Sarah Palin, rub right up close to being seditious."

One last thought... The TV Network which is most responsible for promoting discontent is the foreign owned (Merdock was naturalized to get around FCC rules) Fox News. Is this an argument to disallow foreign ownership of networks, or ti disallow newly minted citizens from owning networks?

[Kilmer17]

When does political desent become sedition?

When one political hack cries about what another political hack is doing.

[greenspandan]

beck/palin would have to advocate violence before i'd even consider curtailing their right to say what they have to say.

[JMS]

When does political desent become sedition?

When one political hack cries about what another political hack is doing.

I think When you deamonize / attack the opposition personally, rather than their policies. When you start advocating and alluding to violence against that opposition.

[AsburySkinsFan]

:yawnee:

Pathetic blog piece used to rev up the "Waterboarding Instrustor" t-shirt wearing crowd.

Please of please do not imprison Sarah Palin, she needs to be the 2012 nominee.

[Madison Redskin]

Palin and Beck are two of the biggest ******* idiots on the planet, but I'd represent both for free if the government charged them with sedition based on what they've said and done to date.

[JMS]

beck/palin would have to advocate violence before i'd even consider curtailing their right to say what they have to say.

That's pretty much what we are talking about..

Here are some Quotes from Sarah Palin, which both are untrue, and cross the bar.

Barack Obama "palled around with terrorists" adding,"I am just so fearful that this is not a man who sees America the way you and I see America."

Upon hearing the Republican VP candidate's concern that Sen. Obama might be a terrorist, a voice in the crowd cried out 'Kill him!'

"Now it turns out, one of his earliest supporters is a man named Bill Ayers...And, according to the New York Times, he was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, 'launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and our U.S. Capitol,'" she continued.

"Boooo!" the crowd repeated.

"Kill him!" proposed one man in the audience.

Palin went on to say that "Obama held one of the first meetings of his political career in Bill Ayers's living room, and they've worked together on various projects in Chicago." Here, Palin began to connect the dots. "These are the same guys who think that patriotism is paying higher taxes -- remember that's what Joe Biden had said. "And" -- she paused and sighed -- "I am just so fearful that this is not a man who sees America the way you and I see America, as the greatest force for good in the world. I'm afraid this is someone who sees America as 'imperfect enough' to work with a former domestic terrorist who had targeted his own country."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/10/06/in_fla_palin_goes_for_the_roug.html

Palin poured on more fuel Tuesday in Jacksonville, telling lies to a pumped up crowd bearing “No communists!” and “Palin’s Pitbulls” signs, “Our opponent voted to cut off funding for our troops. He did this even after saying that he wouldn’t do such a thing. And he said, too, that our troops in Afghanistan are just, quote, ‘air-raiding villages and killing civilians.’ I hope Americans know that is not what our brave men and women are doing in Afghanistan.”

A man in that crowd angrily shouted, “Treason!”

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3851.shtml

Sarah Palin gave a Nevada Tea Party Express rally some curious marching orders on Saturday, telling them to stop and harass anyone with an Obama bumper sticker. After quoting a common conservative sticker ("Government: If you think our problems are bad, wait until you see our solutions") she said, "Or that bumper sticker you see on the next Subaru driving by, an Obama bumper sticker, you should stop the driver and say, 'So, how is that hopey changey thing working out for you?"

http://www.newser.com/story/84826/palin-to-fans-stop-cars-with-obama-bumper-stickers.html

Inciting Violence with over the top rhetoric was actually McCain's last ditch strategy to turn the elction to his advantage.

http://jeffrey-feldman.typepad.com/frameshop/2008/10/frameshop-mccai.html

McCain Bets Election on Recycled Violent Rhetoric about Obama

Sen. Obama, the McCain campaign tells us, is not just the wrong choice for President--he is, they claim, a violent beast whose hatred for American can only be slaked by inflicting pain and suffering on every man woman and child in the land. It is a sick fantasy Americans know too well at this point in the election, and it is a sign of the desperation of the McCain campaign that they are returning to it in full force as the campaign enters the home stretch.

"It's a dangerous road, but we have no choice," a top McCain strategist recently admitted to the Daily News. "If we keep talking about the economic crisis, we're going to lose."

In a recent video clip from MSNBC, McCain asked a rally, "Who is the real Barack Obama?" In response to McCain's rhetorical question, a voice from the crowd can be clearly heard to shout in response, "Terrorist!"

http://www.americablog.com/2008/10/mccain-does-nothing-as-crowd-member.html

-

[@DCGoldPants]

Beck is not an idiot. I think he is a genius at making money and playing to the weak minded.

He's the type of guy who would invent Scientology and then sit back and get rich.

I'm not sure what Palin is....but I think she knows 12 mil a year is something she should take advantage of as long as she can.

[ACW]

Beck and Palin are asshats, but protected by the 1st Amendment.

[JMS]

Beck is not an idiot. I think he is a genius at making money and playing to the weak minded.

He's the type of guy who would invent Scientology and then sit back and get rich.

Rush is the same way... I listenned to Rush for years back when Bill Clinton was in office... He was pro choice back then and opennly reffered to himself as an entertainer. As an entertainer when he talked samack against President Clinton, it was irreverent and funny. Today Rush considers himself a Republican Strategist and get's insulted when Republicans call him an entertainer. Today when Rush talks about armed resistance against the governemnt it's not irreverent or funny... It's sedition.

I'm not sure what Palin is....but I think she knows 12 mil a year is something she should take advantage of as long as she can.

I think Palin is a well spoken political opprotunist (as many politicians are) who has found a message which sells to a significant segment of the American people. That message is rooted in patriotism, and in gun rights, and in individualism. It's also rooted in falshoods, fantasy, and mistruth, which Palin is getting very wealthy spreading around. The debate is whether it's also sedition.

[Mickalino]

Please of please do not imprison Sarah Palin, she needs to be the 2012 nominee.

Apparently....due to the fact that Obama could not defeat a legitimate opponent

[JMS]

Beck and Palin are asshats, but protected by the 1st Amendment.

Sedition is not protected by the first ammendment.

Not all speech is protected under the first ammendment.

The quesiton is whether or not Palin, Beck, and Rush are practicing, even cashing in on seditious statements.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Not agreeing with bailouts and the health care bill=sedition in today's America

Was "regime change starts at home" sedition back in 2003? Were Michael Moore and Howard Dean commiting acts of sedition?

[JMS]

Was "regime change starts at home" sedition back in 2003? Were Michael Moore and Howard Dean commiting acts of sedition?

I would challenge you to produce an article from any press conference or speech were Howard Deen or Michael Moore were pressent at the podium where the crowd was shouting "kill him".

Much less several..

"Kill him!" proposed one man in the audience.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/10/06/in_fla_palin_goes_for_the_roug.html

The Secret Service is following up on media reports today that someone in the crowd at a McCain/Palin event suggested killing Barack Obama, according to Secret Service spokesman Malcolm Wiley. The shout of "kill him" followed a Sarah Palin rant on Obama's relationship with radical Chicagoan Bill Ayers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/06/mccain-does-nothing-as-cr_n_132366.html

As seen at recent McCain events, this afternoon's crowd was vocal in their support for McCain and their anger with Senator Obama. At one point one man could be heard yelling, "Off with his head," when McCain spoke about Obama's tax plan. That enthusiasm was even more present during Palin's remarks, and as other observers have reported in the past, today there was a sizeable number of people making their way towards the exit after McCain's running mate left the podium.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/more-hatred-at-rallies-of_n_133115.html

Yesterday, a member of the crowd at a Palin rally in Jacksonville, Florida yelled "treason!" after Palin accused Obama of criticizing U.S. troops in Afghanistan.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/more-hatred-at-rallies-of_n_133115.html

And on Monday, a supporter shouted "Kill him!" when Sarah Palin started attacking Obama's association with William Ayers at a rally in Clearwater, Florida.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/more-hatred-at-rallies-of_n_133115.html

[Zguy28]

I would challenge you to produce an article from any press conference or speech were Howard Deen or Michael Moore were pressent at the podium where the crowd was shouting "kill him".

One guy = crowd?

[Predicto]

beck/palin would have to advocate violence before i'd even consider curtailing their right to say what they have to say.

This.

[Rocky21]

We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it ~Edward R. Murrow

[JimboDaMan]

Palin and especially Beck are rabble-rousing asshats. They've surely crossed the line of reason and civility, but nothing even close to illegal.

[JMS]

One guy = crowd?

They aren't isolated events. It's happenned several times. It's been happening since the campagne..

• Trader
  
• Terrorist
  
• Treason
  
• kill him
  
• off with his head
  
• Moslem
  
• Barak Husien Obama
  
• Communist
  
• It's not negativity, it's the truth..
  

Here is a vidio of some of the bad moments from the Palin and McCain campaign rallies.

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name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

[JMS]

We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it ~Edward R. Murrow

Edward R. Murrow wasn't defending people who implemented a campagne strategy to personally and irroniously attack his political foe, in an atmosphere where such verbal assults regularly resulted in calls of violence from their supporters.

[Zguy28]

Edward R. Murrow wasn't defending people who implemented a campagne strategy to personally and irroniously attack his political foe, in an atmosphere where such verbal assults regularly resulted in calls of violence from their supporters.

Well then, President Andrew Jackson was the most seditious son of a gun there ever was.

[JMS]

This.

So Palin would have to say something like "don't retreat reload"?

"Obama is a terrorist who planned his political career with someone who planted bombs in the Pentagon?" "He's a terrorist", "a trader", and "communist".

Sedition isn't about telling people to go kill somebody. It's about whipping up the crowd to go do something.

[JMS]

Well then, President Andrew Jackson was the most seditious son of a gun there ever was.

How so?

Actually Thomas Jefferson wrote things in the newspaper annonoumously which in latter years would have gotten him shot. Not for sedition, but for treason. Thomas Jefferson is cheifly responsible for the law changing in how the VP is selected. They used to give the VP job to the second largest vote getter for President. After Jefferson's was VP 1796 election, that was change largely because of Jefferson.

[Henry]

Beck and Palin are exercising their first amendment rights to ***** about the government. Calling them seditious is like calling Obama a communist.

It's hyperbole, which I personally find rather distasteful.

And hopefully, this will be the only time I EVER find myself defending either of them.

[JMS]

Beck and Palin are exercising their first amendment rights to ***** about the government. Calling them seditious is like calling Obama a communist.

It's hyperbole, which I personally find rather distasteful.

Sedition is not protected by the first ammendment, any more than yelling fire in a crowded movie theatre is.

Sedition is a crime in the United States. Beck, Palin, and Limbaugh are very very well paid private citizens who are spewing and often times making up falsehoods in order to continue to get their huge paychecks...

I think their political rhetoric has crossed new ground in American politics. It's not uncommon to see or hear open calls for violence against our elected leaders at their rallies and events. The question is do these folks actions dip into sedition... creating discontent, creating this atmosphere of violence; or are these peoples careers merely a bi product of this atmosphere...

I would argue the former. I would also argue Fox News is another institution actively promoting and financially benifiting from creating this atmosphere of fear.