NBC: DC Legalizing Medical Marijuana

[Soup]

Ok, so let me get this straight, D.C. already legalized medical use and they are currently building "Clinics" that would prescribe it?

[Mooka]

Yeah, haven't subsequent federal raids been about other things - like massive underground dealings to "non-medical" users - rather than the medicinal marijuana approach? I mean, let's not kid ourselves, virtually every "medicinal" marijuana dispensary is going to be connected to some non-medical dealings that are very lucrative, but I thought that Obama/Holder had basically been going after the worst and letting the operations that were truly medical in nature, perhaps with some shady agreements on the side, go on with their daily business.

Dispensaries still break the law all the time, both the State and the Federal government raid the same places. They probably race each other to seize the property.

But lets be serious here. In January, Oakland opened a potgrowing store the size of a Home Depot. This has a chance of passing this Nov:

CHANGES CALIFORNIA LAW TO LEGALIZE MARIJUANA AND ALLOW IT TO BE REGULATED AND TAXED. INITIATIVE STATUTE.

[Hubbs]

Smoking marijuana and using Adderall is not gonna give you the same feeling. Close but Adderall is not as good. But ya using Adderall will build up a toerance for marijuana so you will just have to smoke a little more.

Can you explain the chemical interactions behind that?

[Chopper Dave]

Can you explain the chemical interactions behind that?

Adderall does not make it harder to get high, not universally, at least. The cross-effects are ambiguous; I don't think there are any shared receptors. Generally, as it is with mixing any substances, it depends on the person. I personally would get absolutely twisted when I would mix adderall and marijuana, though I could study like a total beast. I guess it's possible that it could create a tolerance, like what sometimes happens when people mix cocaine and alcohol, but in my experience I haven't seen it that many times.

Off the record, I've heard ketamine mixed with adderall and weed throws the whole thing for a loop. Supposedly.

[Skinz101]

I assume you'd be hard pressed to find many other crops that bring over $4000 a pound on the open market. *******.

4k a pound ??? Really?? You need to find a new dealer!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Chopper Dave]

4k a pound ??? Really?? You need to find a new dealer!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

It's an estimated average. Prices vary widely at that level. You're probably thinking of brick weed if $4000 seems that outrageous. Either that or you're spoiled by having a really, really good connection and you just don't realize it. I wouldn't pay $4k for average bud, but I've seen good **** go for as much as $4800/lb, and I live in Florida. It's not like I'm in Wyoming. Around here, it's cheap, it's plentiful, and it's awesome.

[HoggLife]

don't federal rules still override this?

I'm pretty sure in california you can still break federal laws while adhering to cali laws

may be mistaken an dmay have just misheard/misread a commerce clause case or something though

Like I posted before yes Fed law overrides State law but Feds wont mess with it unless you are growing 99 or more plants. So in Cali we grow what we need but make sure to stay under 99 plants. Also here in Northern Cali we have the growers and the best weed in the whole world. Yes even better than Amsertdam!!!!

[Renegade7]

Ok, so let me get this straight, D.C. already legalized medical use and they are currently building "Clinics" that would prescribe it?

Yep, possibly five of them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/23/AR2010032303249_pf.html

D.C. looks to state programs for answers on medical marijuana

By Ann E. Marimow

Washington Post Staff Writer

Wednesday, March 24, 2010; B01

Los Angeles imposed strict limits on medical marijuana shops this year after hundreds of them popped up with little government oversight. Colorado is still wrestling with how to ensure legitimate doctor-patient relationships after the number of people applying to use medical marijuana surged dramatically in a six-month period.

And in the District, elected officials are trying to learn from what they consider cautionary tales from other jurisdictions as they try to create a program that strikes a delicate balance: allowing safe access to the drug for those who need it, while avoiding the kind of abuse by recreational users that would attract a backlash from Congress.

Adding to the pressure, the D.C. Council has been inundated with calls -- from a Netherlands company offering indoor-growing technology to a California dispensary proposing a new franchise to the Drug Enforcement Administration asking for the latest legislative language -- reminding members of the need to get this right.

"We are not an island unto ourselves," said council member David A. Catania (I-At Large), the leading sponsor of the legislation that is a starting point for debate this month. "We have to be careful that we don't have a system that creates more mischief than benefit."

More than a decade has passed since District voters approved a ballot initiative to legalize marijuana for medical treatment. But it was not until December, with Democrats controlling Congress and the White House, that city lawmakers considered converting voter intent into reality. It helped that the Obama administration had urged federal prosecutors last fall not to interfere with local medical-marijuana laws.

Catania's bill, backed by most of his council colleagues, proposes five retail-style dispensaries throughout the city and prevents the shops from locating near schools or youth centers. If the measure is approved, District residents with a doctor's recommendation could legally purchase the drug as early as the fall. However, District officials must decide whether five is the right number of dispensaries for a city of 600,000 residents, where the seeds would be planted, what requirements to set for doctors who recommend medical marijuana, and which conditions would qualify for the treatment beyond illnesses such as AIDS, cancer and multiple sclerosis.

Council members are looking to the 14 states where the use of medical marijuana is legal for answers. Steph Sherer, executive director of Americans for Safe Access, which supports legalizing pot for medical reasons, said that once policymakers become more familiar with regulating marijuana dispensaries, it becomes a routine part of governing.

"It's a boring clinic. It just maybe smells different than anything you've been in before," said Sherer, a D.C. resident who uses a marijuana spray four times a day for neck spasms.

In California, home of the nation's first program, medical marijuana was initially so loosely regulated -- without limits on the number of dispensaries -- that nearly 1,000 shops sprang up in Los Angeles, creating a booming business and leading elected officials to quip that there were more pot shops than Starbucks stores. The Los Angeles City Council responded in January, capping the number of dispensaries at 70 and placing limits on locations and employee compensation.

The landscape in Colorado was transformed last summer when a state health board scrapped the patient limit for caregivers. The decision essentially remade the system from one in which patients grew their own marijuana or were supplied by caregivers into a dispensary model with scores of shops. Now, public health officials say they can't keep up with the 500 patient applications that arrive by mail each day. The number of people on the state registry has exploded from 8,900 last June, according to a health department spokesman, to an estimated 63,000 last month, and perhaps as many as 100,000, according to advocates.

"We're looking at the label of pot capital of the world, competing with California," said Colorado Attorney General John Suthers, who is pressing the legislature to restore the patient-caregiver limit. "It's totally out of control."

Ned Calonge, the state's chief medical officer, said he is troubled by reports of doctors signing off on hundreds of forms on the fly and by the small number treating the majority of patients. As of December, his office reported that 820 physicians had authorized medical marijuana for 15,800 patients and that of those doctors, just 15 were responsible for 73 percent of patients.

Calonge also is concerned that the most common condition under which patients qualify is "severe pain," a category that he said has "no objective measurement."

"Because of the vagueness of the wording and the lack of specificity in oversight, we're facing a program that has clearly expanded beyond what was envisioned," Calonge said.

Importance of rules

Matthew Brown, executive director of the pro-dispensary Coloradans for Medical Marijuana Regulation, said the physician numbers are outdated and reflect the previously small pool of doctors who were comfortable even discussing the possibility of marijuana use for medical treatment. Brown cautioned that defining the relationship too narrowly would harm low-income patients, for instance, who may not have a primary-care physician. Access would also be limited, advocates said, by creating an arbitrary, limited list of qualifying medical conditions.

"The first year or two will probably not be perfect," Brown said of the District's plans, but "if the law and regulations are written to encourage responsible patients and responsible providers, then a lot of the issues will be taken care of."

The District's program is likely to resemble the highly regulated model in Oakland, Calif., which serves about 400,000 residents. After a rocky start that included armed robberies and resale troubles, Oakland officials in 2004 limited the number of dispensaries to four and created a rigorous permit and annual renewal system. The process assigns points for security, financing and criminal background checks, tests an applicant's knowledge of medical marijuana laws and interviews for finalists.

After the first year of stricter standards, city officials shut down two of the four dispensaries. Since then, the city has not received complaints from neighbors or other merchants, according to Barbara Killey, the recently retired assistant to the city administrator who oversaw the program.

Under the District's ballot initiative, nonprofit operators would be exempt from local taxes, as are other nonprofit corporations, a plan that Killey said, "seems kind of crazy." In addition to an annual $30,000-a-year permitting fee, Oakland dispensaries pay a business tax rate that is 15 times as high as the typical rate for retailers.

Oakland City Council member Rebecca Kaplan, who is considering an increase in the number of dispensaries, recommended that the District start small, though not so small that there are huge crowds.

"There could be such a thing as too many," Kaplan said. "But the content of the rules probably matters more than the number."

CD, I looked into it for you, and couldn't find anything about whether or not Adderall and Marijuana use the same receptors. Given Adderal is a stimulant and marijuana is a depressant with some stimulant like effects, research and individual experiences back up the claim of the so called "cancelling out" with a tranquil level of stimulation that gets the job done; but in the right dose, and all people are different. Some people don't even get high in several cases, while others suffer terrible trips that turn them off from weed entirely. There's a responsible way to go about mixing the two, and I don't blame anyone for trying it. It works, especially if you don't act a fool idiot with it.

Personal experience, I used to smoke joints while studying for my ASVAP test. I paced myself over four months to relax and take in all the knowledge I had never seen before. Going for the Air Force, I scored an overall 72; 87 electrical. Trust me when I say I didn't know jack **** about the difference between DC, AC, ohms, or capacitive reactance going into to all of this. And I'm not some AP kid who didn't know what college he wanted to go to either; my GED diploma is somewhere in my big chest with other important documents.

Some people can do anything they put his or her mind to, while others simply cannot, all things considered. In a perfect world, all AIDS patients can force themselves to eat; All people getting chemotherapy can keep themselves from throwing up on a regular basis; Anyone with MS can completely tune out the pain or without assistance ward off potential exacerbations. People can ignore the facts if they want, but studies are showing significant progress with marijuana and its many cannabinoids treating everything from bi-polar disorder to seziures.

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjmbr/v39n4/6164.pdf

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000139

There are so many perscription drugs out here that are known to severly damage parts of the body, kill in overdoses, lead to depressive/suicidal behavior (not to mention the potential for others leading to serious addiction problems). If marijuana can have some of the same positive effects as other drugs minus several of the debilitating side-effects, why shouldn't some patients be able to grow it in their own backyard; or at least have some legal access to it? If it's proven to be safer, why in the world is it illegal?

If DC truely is going to keep this under control, it could end up being a model for others attempting to legalize medical marijuana in the near future. They said the dispenseries could by open as early as this coming Fall, so history could be right around the corner.

[Thiebear]

the 'only' problem i see with this is you'd have to pay people to grow crops in the midwest that require you to rotate fields... MJ doesn't leach the ground and is worth 8x as much per acre? You could grow it on every field every year....

Then again were paying people NOT to grow food right now, 1/2 of them in Congress

[Koolblue13]

Yeah, haven't subsequent federal raids been about other things - like massive underground dealings to "non-medical" users

The people I have talked to, who have been involved with them, usually say they are pretty strict.

[Koolblue13]

the 'only' problem i see with this is you'd have to pay people to grow crops in the midwest that require you to rotate fields... MJ doesn't leach the ground and is worth 8x as much per acre? You could grow it on every field every year....

You don't pay people to grow a weed.

Then again were paying people NOT to grow food right now, 1/2 of them in Congress

[visionary]

After reading this, I'm curious how many people on ES would smoke pot regularly if it were legal.

(Not asking who already does...since you probably shouldn't be telling us on here anyway.)

[Bang]

After reading this, I'm curious how many people on ES would smoke pot regularly if it were legal.

(Not asking who already does...since you probably shouldn't be telling us on here anyway.)

This is always an interesting question. There's a good contingency of people who fear that legalization will lead to a nation of stoners.

I very much doubt that would be the case. There would be a small percentage who would try it if it were legal, but most people who don't use it probably would continue to not use it.

After Prohibition 1 was repealed we didn't become a nation of drunks.

Take Navy Dave for example. I am guessing he's never tried it in his life, and given his stance on it in this thread, I would bet my last dollar that he'd continue to abstain.

Now, most people aren't as over-the-top as he is, but I have to think that the majority of non-users would remain non-users.

~Bang

[brandymac27]

It's $62.50 (no ****, he really charges like that, always has) for an 1/8 of magazine quality herb around here.

If legal, it would be free, because it's a freaking weed and grows better than a freaking tomato plant. I grew some in my garden the year before last, between corn and zucchini. The corn barely made it, the zuches did well, but the weed was great.

Um, the weed plant, did ya do anything special to it? Or did it pretty much just take care of itself. I ask b/c I can't seem to keep house plants alive. It'd be interesting to see if I could take a few seeds and grow a MJ plant.

I mean, it's all relative. I only smoke good pot, so yeah, I can get an eighth for $30. I can probably get an ounce for $30. But it's ****. An eighth of good pot is $50 or more anywhere you go in the country. The terminology changes, I've noticed. Some parts of the country say kush or dro, we call it krip (as opposed to regs or mids, which are really just good regs), but regardless, the standard pricing is pretty much $50 or more. If you're paying less, you're either buying substandard weed, you're getting a great deal and therefore shouldn't be expecting people to getting similar deals, or you're in Canada.

And for $350 I was getting that hot fire. If I was paying that much, it was that **** that makes your eyes bleed.

You can get an ounce for $30? PM please .

Also, has anyone ever tried getting the THC honey from the plant and using it on **** weed? I'm wondering if this really does increase potency and hence, turns the $30 an ounce crap weed into decent weed? Also, is the pvc pipe/butane the best way to get the honey?

BTW: I'm all for legalizing herb. We have murderers, child molesters, rapists, etc running around out here and the cops are worried about a little bud? Makes no sense IMO.

[Drop]

$60 an 1/8th? That's a little too steep unless you're getting some real good stuff. $30 an 1/8th for regular is a lot more realistic.

what? the primo medical strains grown in cali sell out here for $70 an 1/8. That's namebrand though of course.

[Titaw]

This is always an interesting question. There's a good contingency of people who fear that legalization will lead to a nation of stoners.

I very much doubt that would be the case. There would be a small percentage who would try it if it were legal, but most people who don't use it probably would continue to not use it.

After Prohibition 1 was repealed we didn't become a nation of drunks.

Take Navy Dave for example. I am guessing he's never tried it in his life, and given his stance on it in this thread, I would bet my last dollar that he'd continue to abstain.

Now, most people aren't as over-the-top as he is, but I have to think that the majority of non-users would remain non-users.

~Bang

I have to agree with you Bang. Will the amount of stoners rise, of course, but it won't be as substantial as one may think. This was a point of contention back during the prohibition of alcohol and did we become a nation of acoholics, not at all.

My questions to those who oppose the decirimnalization of mairjuana are simple:

- Do you drink alcohol?

- Do you use tobacco?

Both of these are legal "drugs" and are more dangerous to use than marijuana. Think I am pulling this outta my ass?

http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/

All of the information on this site is pulled and cited from various credible, mostly government sites.

[Titaw]

I'd love to see this happen:

Calif. voters could legalize pot in Nov. election

By CATHY BUSSEWITZ

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) - When California voters head to the polls in November, they will decide whether the state will make history again - this time by legalizing the recreational use of marijuana for adults.

The state was the first to legalize medicinal marijuana use, with voters passing it in 1996. Since then, 14 states have followed California's lead, even though marijuana remains illegal under federal law.

"This is a watershed moment in the decades-long struggle to end failed marijuana prohibition in this country," said Stephen Gutwillig, California director for the Drug Policy Alliance. "We really can't overstate the significance of Californians being the first to have the opportunity to end this public policy disaster."

California is not alone in the push to expand legal use of marijuana. Legislators in Rhode Island, another state hit hard by the economic downturn, are considering a plan to decriminalize possession of an ounce or less by anyone 18 or older.

Link: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100325/D9ELJOL80.html

[Thiebear]

You don't pay people to grow a weed.

Sorry, what i meant to say was: you'd have to pay them to grow corn/wheat and other food items that leach the ground and require rotational crops that barely cover costs.

If you grow weed like a weed... you get a weed.. Put some effort into it and get quality.:cloud9:

[Skin'Em84]

After reading this, I'm curious how many people on ES would smoke pot regularly if it were legal.

(Not asking who already does...since you probably shouldn't be telling us on here anyway.)

I would. Not that I haven't before, I used to on a pretty regular basis, but jobs started testing, so I had to stop. If it were legal, and jobs stopped testing (or if they just stopped testing), I would start back up probably. I enjoy it much more than alcohol.

[HoggLife]

I have to agree with you Bang. Will the amount of stoners rise, of course, but it won't be as substantial as one may think. This was a point of contention back during the prohibition of alcohol and did we become a nation of acoholics, not at all.

My questions to those who oppose the decirimnalization of mairjuana are simple:

- Do you drink alcohol?

- Do you use tobacco?

Both of these are legal "drugs" and are more dangerous to use than marijuana. Think I am pulling this outta my ass?

http://www.saferchoice.org/content/view/24/53/

All of the information on this site is pulled and cited from various credible, mostly government sites.

Not only is marijuana not deadly like alcohol and tobacco but it is easier for kids to buy marijuana than alcohol. If marijuana was legal then kids would have just as hard of a time buying marijuana as they do alcohol. In fact it would be harder cause kids can steal alcohol but marijuana would be behind the counter with cigarettes so it would be impossible to steal.

You are also right about back during the prohibition of alcohol. There were actually more people drinking before it then after it. If marijuana becomes legal it doesnt mean more and more people are gonna smoke. In fact less will cause sometimes it is exciting to do stuff you cant do. It is illegal right now but those that wanna smoke do so. When you get hundreds of people drinking together then you start to see people get roudy and fights start happening. When you get hundreds of people smoking together it is way different. People start asking each other what kind they got and just wanna smoke out together and have fun.

[HoggLife]

what? the primo medical strains grown in cali sell out here for $70 an 1/8. That's namebrand though of course.

Maybe 5 years ago. You must be in Southern Cal. Down there I have seen grams go for $40 for the top grade. Up north here top grade you can get an 1/8 for 40. 50 at most. Prices have dropped A LOT in the past 2 years.

And to the ones asking about growing. First off it isnt as easy as having a house plant. You have to invest a few thousand dollars just to get the right grow room. Then there are a million other factors like the temp and humidity in your room and what to feed your plants. Also if you will grow in soil or hydro? Then you have to know how to deal with so many different kinds of pest (bugs) that eat your plants and molds/powdery mildew. Then you need to spend many many hours timming off all the leafs off your buds and you need to know how to dry them and cure them right. On top of all this you have to know how to do it with neighbors not knowing so you dont risk getting robbed. So it isnt just putting a seed in the ground or in a pot and watching it grow but once you do learn how to grow you will be a master at growing anything and your house and yards will be full of beautiful plants and flowers.

And to the person wondering how many people on ES smoke. Well pesonally I have smoked with a few and it will be around the same average of how many people in the US smoke. And even the people here at ES that dont smoke, if you are the one that asks them if they wanna smoke and if they dont, all the ones I have did that too were totally cool about it and didnt judge me. Of course there are some of those people like NavyDave that would be a prick about it but most americans are now pretty open about marijuana uses and know us smokers are laid back and fun to be around

[visionary]

Titaw;7398427]

My questions to those who oppose the decirimnalization of mairjuana are simple:

- Do you drink alcohol?

- Do you use tobacco?

I don't oppose it, but I'm pretty sure I won't use it either.

I don't use tobacco and don't drink enough to get drunk (although I have gotten dehydrated or really tired from it at times)

Now that I think about it however, I hope I wouldn't be constantly exposed to pot smoke or people smoking it.

(As long as they have similar laws to what we have for smoking tobacco in Montgomery County, I probably wouldn't mind.

Although it does piss me off when I'm at work and someone comes in and hangs around me, stinking of tobacco. Even more so when my supervisor used to do that...ugh. )