ES: Haynesworth sends a clear message

[ThomasRoane]

Great take on the situation Murf. I see it the same as you. He only cares about himself.

[Annonymous Source]

not a lack of effort as much as it is a lack of conditioning. Proven by the fact that they had to darn-near cart him off the field like every 4 plays.

Yeah, the cart thing was ridiculous. Especially considering that he would then come back into the game a few plays later. I dunno if it was lack of conditioning or if it was the double teams. What I do know is that at the pro level in any sport you are responsible for knowing the limitations of your own body and making sure that you are not playing beyond those limits. To do otherwise is an embarrasment. I would rather have Haynesworth on the field for 50% of snaps at 100% effort than Haynesworth on the field for 100% of snaps at 50% effort.

[KDawg]

I'm going to leave personal feeling out of this (Remember, I'm a football coach AND the strength and conditioning coach at my high school) and just say that if he's going to do this, he better damn well come into the season in ridiculously great shape.

[authentic]

He was out of shape, but to be honest the workouts in July before training camp are usually done away from the team (since the off-season team workouts are done by then). Recall last year how some of the offensive linemen went to Arizona in July to finish off their workout regiments. That is when Mike Williams lost the last of his weight.

My point being that what Albert did in the month of July does not reflect the rest of his off-season workouts which were with the Redskins. So a month with his trainers is not really enough to off-set the bad work our trainers did with Al the preceeding months.

according to this CES promotional video, he (Big Al) testifies what the workout did for him. Watch it for your self.

[Annonymous Source]

Let me put it this way, by the end of last season, I had players like Phillip Daniels and Cornelius Griffin telling me, "Some guys need to learn to play hurt. They need to realize that them at 80 percent is better than a backup at 100 percent." That's the basic message I got from two of his peers on the defensive line.

That's not me questioning his effort. That's the guys who line up next to him on Sundays. So yeah, I have a hard time sitting quietly when he wants to go off and do his own thing. Why should I be okay with him skipping team events or blowing off the new head coach without ever giving the man a chance?

Shanahan has two rings. How many does Haynesworth have?

That I hadn't heard up until now...wow

That completely changes my take on the situation. All of those late game "injuries" were Haynesworth's fault as well because he was playing in a situation where he couldn't function properly because of fatigue. If this is a factor this season the only solution that I can see is that he not be allowed to play as many snaps at the start of games so that he can be fresh down the stretch.

Sort of like a baseball pitch count, a Haynesworth running count.

[KingGibbs]

if Shanahan has an issue with it he will make it known.

According to Haynesworth, Shanny has already told him he would prefer he be with the team. What more do you want?

[Annonymous Source]

I'm going to leave personal feeling out of this (Remember, I'm a football coach AND the strength and conditioning coach at my high school) and just say that if he's going to do this, he better damn well come into the season in ridiculously great shape.

Agreed. From the description of what he does with his trainer he works almost solely on fast-twitch muscle groups. He needs to just spend 30-40 minutes a day on the elliptical. Build up his slow twitch a little bit.

Never knew you were also a strength and conditioning coach, that really cool.:cool:

[KDawg]

Agreed. From the description of what he does with his trainer he works almost solely on fast-twitch muscle groups. He needs to just spend 30-40 minutes a day on the elliptical. Build up his slow twitch a little bit.

Normally, I'd probably say the aerobic activity isn't necessary for football... But when you're as big as Albert is, you need some cardiovascular work. I condition all of my athletes year round, but that's more so because they're high school kids and need the conditioning work.

Never knew you were also a strength and conditioning coach, that really cool.:cool:

Yes sir.

[Warpath11]

according to this CES promotional video, he (Big Al) testifies what the workout did for him. Watch it for your self.

Not sure I see the point since it is a promotional video (what is he suppose to say?). My main point was that if he worked out with this guys for the whole off-season, not just July, he may have been more dominant and in better overall physical condition as with his days in Tennessee (he mentiones as much in his interview yesterday).

For the record I would rather have him at Redskin Park but I am just playing devils adovocate here.

[SKOALSKIN]

the message is clear. He took a page from Stubblefields book. Cashed the checks and took a knee. Albert is heartless.

[authentic]

Not sure I see the point since it is a promotional video (what is he suppose to say?). My main point was that if he worked out with this guys for the whole off-season, not just July, he may have been more dominant and in better overall physical condition as with his days in Tennessee (he mentiones as much in his interview yesterday).

For the record I would rather have him at Redskin Park but I am just playing devils adovocate here.

I realize its a promotional video. But the point is that whether he used them for a month, 3 months, or 1 week. Fact remains is that he was a client and took his own initiative to get in shape as he saw fit.

Furthermore, the point that he makes about being in better shape in Tenn than in Wash. is BS. Thats on him not anyone else. The reason why i brought up the article and the vid is because he seemed to place the blame on others and not himself, as a way to make excuses and justify not wanting to be here with his teammates. Therefore i conclude that he's full of :pooh:.

[John Lydon]

This isn't about the fans and has nothing to do with a workout program. It's about rebuilding the franchise from the ground up. The Redskins, as an organization, have cut corners and tried the quick fix for years. Now, when a two-time Super Bowl winning head coach comes in and tries to establish the same fundamentals and systems that enabled him to take home the Lombardi Trophy twice, his highest-paid player turns his back on him.

Haynesworth is letting his coaches and teammates know that he's not a team player. He only cares about himself. Maybe my time in the Army is clouding my opinion on this because we truly did care about the uniform we wore, but you don't have to be a soldier to make personal sacrifices for the good of the team. That's something anyone can do.

I spent time in the military as well and you are correct, the word team means more to veterans than the common person. But in combat, not going along witht he team costs someone their life. In football it's not such a big deal.

I do see your point about what Haynesworth's actions could do to what Shanny is trying to build. In the 80's I would say this is a shame. Every since free agency has become what it is though, I have no problems with players putting their best interests over a team. Do you think Washington would hesitate to trade AH for the right price, regardless of it was the right thing to do or not?

I look at players like Jerry Rice who embodied what it meant to be a team player. Did what the coaches asked, didn't blab to the media, carried his team when they needed it, and was a great locker room leader. However, when his usefullness for the team had run its course, they traded him away. Even though he expressed his desire to reitre with San Fran, and had by anyone's exoectations earned that right, they traded him away.

If Big Al wants to cash in and go on his way then so be it. He's under no more obligation to buy into the coaches vision then the team is to retain him.

[Chicken Fried]

This isn't about the fans and has nothing to do with a workout program. It's about rebuilding the franchise from the ground up. The Redskins, as an organization, have cut corners and tried the quick fix for years. Now, when a two-time Super Bowl winning head coach comes in and tries to establish the same fundamentals and systems that enabled him to take home the Lombardi Trophy twice, his highest-paid player turns his back on him.

Haynesworth is letting his coaches and teammates know that he's not a team player. He only cares about himself. Maybe my time in the Army is clouding my opinion on this because we truly did care about the uniform we wore, but you don't have to be a soldier to make personal sacrifices for the good of the team. That's something anyone can do.

I completely disagree. You can't say he doesn't care about the team because he wants to work out with another trainer. That trainergot him to where he is. So what if he had a little off year last season. It happens to the best. Looking at the poor conditioning of the team last year, I would say the Skins training program is bad. This is a make or break year for him, so why risk the chance the team got another terrible strength coach when he can work out with a known commodity?

[KingGibbs]

I completely disagree. You can't say he doesn't care about the team because he wants to work out with another trainer. That trainergot him to where he is. So what if he had a little off year last season. It happens to the best. Looking at the poor conditioning of the team last year, I would say the Skins training program is bad. This is a make or break year for him, so why risk the chance the team got another terrible strength coach when he can work out with a known commodity?

You don't pay a guy a forty-one million dollar bonus for him to have a "make or break" year in year TWO of his contract. That's ludicrous.

[angel2]

(photo by Brian Murphy)

The big topic this week, as most fans of the Washington Redskins known by now, is Albert Haynesworth.

Click here for the full article.

Well, my take on this is that Big Al knows his body and what it takes to get himself in shape. It's my understanding that he trained with the Redskins last season and was not happy with his performance before and during the season. So he committed himself to his personal trainer of past years that was successful with him during good years.

What makes his decision legit is that he is paid by the Skins some huge bucks and that sum of monies in itself sets the tone for Haynesworth to dance to his own tune. The Redskins brought this on themselves by making him unique as a player. Remember, this is a voluntary workout.

If Big Al does the same as last season with regards to his on-field performance, then the remarks about team first will be legit.

[darrelgreenie]

And that’s where the disconnect is. Haynesworth is only here to collect that paycheck. He doesn’t care about being a member of a team or doing what’s best for the organization. He’s only concerned about taking care of him and if that doesn’t work for anyone else, he couldn’t care less.

Click here for the full article.

I disagree.

Haynesworth is here to dominate and that's what he does.

What's best for the organization is for Haynseworth to come in stomp on peoples faces (metaphorically)

Should Haynseworth be there for the voluntary workouts? Yes.

But, c'mon people lets not lose sight of the truth.

Big Al is a freakin beast.

Teamplayer?

Who was the 1st and i think only Redskins to come to D-Hall defense when he was get punked by the Falcons?

Big Al was there and layed a big hambone headslap on a couple people.

Side note-to whom it may apply

I feel like some members of our local media have turned Haynesworth being winded into Haynesworth was out of shape but a blind man can see that when he's out there he's a force and he was on the field as much or more then other DT so if he was out of shape last year i'll take that same out of shape this year.

Yeah i said it.

I almost believed the media guys too but what they were saying just didn't match-up with what i saw.

I saw a man that couldn't be budged on 3/4 and short.

I saw a defense that was weak up the middle when Haynesworth wasn't in there.

I saw Andre Carter and Orakpo each get 10+ sacks.

And here's a link to stevemqueen research regarding Haynseworth fitness:

http://www.extremeskins.com/showpost.php?p=7268455&postcount=363

But since i know that few will read it here are the highlights:

One thing I found shocking was how many snaps Albert takes compared to other players. Albert missed 3 games this year: weeks 11, 12, and 14 (or maybe PFF just didn't chart them). Yet he still played 573 snaps or well over 50% of our total snaps for the year. That averages to about 48 snaps a game. In the 12 games he did play and PFF charted, he played an astounding 72% of our defensive snaps.

He played at a high level too according to their charts: http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&lastname=Haynesworth&surn=Haynesworth&playerid=1022

.......................

For instance, I wanted to see how he compares to other 3-4 players who had good seasons to. Kelly Gregg and Haloti Ngata both had pretty impressive seasons according to this site's rankings, but both played far fewer snaps than Haynesworth did. Out of a possible 1,205 snaps (including playoff games), Gregg played 496 or about 41% of defensive snaps, or just over 28 snaps a game. Clearly this was an effective system for Gregg and the Ravens because he's PFF's second ranked defensive tackle according to their metrics.

Ngata missed weeks 9 & 10 (or wasn't charted for them), so he only has 16 games charted. In those games he played 630 of a possible 1,064 snaps or almost 60%. That averages out to about 40 snaps a game for him, and again this was a successful formula for the Ravens because Ngata garned positive ratings nearly every week and finished as the 17th overall tackle.

Some other guys to look at are Ratliff and Wilfork, both of which finished with excellent rankings for the season. Ratliff played 851 of a possible 1,321 snaps or 65% or about 47 snaps a game which is right in line with Haynesworth's numbers. I think it's notable that Ratliff is listed at 293 also, so you'd expect his condition to be a lot better.

Wilfork didn't play weeks 15, 16, and 17, so he only ended up playing 14 games total. In those games, he played a high number of snaps: 565 out of 873 or about 65% of his team's snaps on defense, or about 40 snaps a game. .

Albert is an exceptional performer and if he wants to train on his own for voluntary workouts its not ideal but its fine by me and apparently fine by Shanahan.

Here's a funny story about another exceptional free agent DL Fred Dean (now HOF) I read it in a book on Bill Walsh awhile back and had to google it to find the link.

Dean came to the 49ers from San Diego during the course of the 49ers 1981 Cinderella season. He quickly turned heads in San Francisco with his impressive play on the field, and...er...unconventional training habits off it.

Ronnie Lott once recounted an early encounter with Fred Dean for the America’s Game series. Ronnie was on his way to the workout room at the 49ers training facility (then located on Nevada St. in Redwood City) and upon entering, saw Fred Dean sitting on the weight bench, smoking a cigarette. He asked “Fred, what are you doing?” Dean replied “Well, I thought about lifting these here weights. But then I thought I would just sit here and smoke until the thought went away.”

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/360090-characters-welcome-the-top-5-strange-personalities-in-49ers-history#page/4

I hope our fans aren't swayed by the media and look to Haynseworth's actual play when they judge him.

[ntotoro]

Well, my take on this is that Big Al knows his body and what it takes to get himself in shape. It's my understanding that he trained with the Redskins last season and was not happy with his performance before and during the season. So he committed himself to his personal trainer of past years that was successful with him during good years.

Except that he said already that he used his hired trainers last year on-the-side and still flopped around like a fish every few plays.

[paloosa]

I would like to see something in writing from a credible source or from Haynesworth himself that said he worked out with his own trainer last year. As far as I know he worked out strictly with the Redskins. After all this is a “voluntary” workout schedule by the Redskins and not "MANDATORY!" If Haynesworth is in shape and comes to mini and training camps then what is the harm?

I was in the military myself and I don't know of anyone that would just call someone up and cancel anything that would cost them a boat load of money just for the team. Personal trainers are not cheap especially if they are good at what they do. Until they make these "Voluntary" offseason workouts "Mandatory" you will get guys doing there own thing. Unless you fine them or suspended them it will keep being a problem with certain players even though I don't see it as a problem. If the guy he hired to train him during the offseason is that good then why not hire him to train Haynesworth at Redskins park and train the rest of the defensive line?

[rick1796]

what a l oad of crap. in a time when ever tom dick and harry is complaining about the government forcing them to do this or that. Albert Haynesworth is not free to decide what is best for his carrier without this kind of needless rabble-rousing and scrutiny. He feels the way for him to be the best player he can be is to work one-on-one with a personal trainer/motivator. He came and paid respect to the coach and even said he would regularly be around redskins park, and that still isn't good enough to soothe the seething minds of off-season fanatics. They do pay him to play football, but they pay him to be the very best at what he does. if he thinks that training with his guy, again one-on-one is what makes him his very best then that is EXACTLY what he should so. Murf is so far off base and so far into accusation mode that he can't hear or see anything but his own diatribe about teamwork. I was in the military. i worked out on my own so that when i was called on to do my duty i could do at my highest level. THAT is not letting your teams down. doing what you are supposed to do, the best you can do it. I believe THAT is what Albert is planning on.

[hogluv4life]

Sounds to me like we should be hiring big Al's personal trainer. We want Al there with the rest and Al wants his trainer. Apparently, he has some good references.

[ntotoro]

I would like to see something in writing from a credible source or from Haynesworth himself that said he worked out with his own trainer last year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-haynesworth072409&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

The sweat pouring off Haynesworth’s body has long since changed the gray Redskins T-shirt he’s wearing from light to dark during his three-hour workout inside the University of Tennessee field house in early July. Haynesworth goes from one drill to the next under the supervision of trainers Tripp Smith, Dominick Flora and J.D. Cherry, who Haynesworth has hired from Competitive Edge Sports.

[TV aka TeeVeli aka BAMBAM30]

Ok...then what if Orakpo wanted to do it? Also, what if Carter, Fletcher, Portis, Landry, Cooley, Moss, and Hall wanted to go off and train without the team? Would it still be ok?

Why is it ok for Haynesworth? Is it just because it's one player?

Well obviously if ALL of those players didn't participate...yeah...that would be a problem.

But the topic is about fat al...and as of right now he's the only player.

Just in my opinion I just don't think haynesworth is a guy that NEEDS to be here.

Point is, is I just don't see albert not being here, having an effect on our season at all.

[authentic]

Sounds to me like we should be hiring big Al's personal trainer. We want Al there with the rest and Al wants his trainer. Apparently, he has some good references.

sounds to me like Big Al is full of :pooh: and a bunch of excuses.

[authentic]

Well obviously if ALL of those players didn't participate...yeah...that would be a problem.

But the topic is about fat al...and as of right now he's the only player.

Just in my opinion I just don't think haynesworth is a guy that NEEDS to be here.

Point is, is I just don't see albert not being here, having an effect on our season at all.

I would agree had he been in tiptop condition last season and went to the probowl. But the fact that he finds every excuse (outside of himself) under the sun as to why he was out of shape, is why i think he needs to check his self.

[angel2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by themurf

This isn't about the fans and has nothing to do with a workout program. It's about rebuilding the franchise from the ground up. The Redskins, as an organization, have cut corners and tried the quick fix for years. Now, when a two-time Super Bowl winning head coach comes in and tries to establish the same fundamentals and systems that enabled him to take home the Lombardi Trophy twice, his highest-paid player turns his back on him.

Haynesworth is letting his coaches and teammates know that he's not a team player. He only cares about himself. Maybe my time in the Army is clouding my opinion on this because we truly did care about the uniform we wore, but you don't have to be a soldier to make personal sacrifices for the good of the team. That's something anyone can do.

Totally disagree with this, in fact sounds as if we live in a controlling society that says if you don't do what we say then you are subject to disbandment.

Dan Snyder and the Redskins organization created what you view as special treatment players. Just maybe Haynesworth has legitimate reasons for not participating in this regiment of exercise. It could be that his body does not do well in recovering from the aerobic training. To force, if they could, Al to participate might bring harm to Haynesworth.

Your argument is adding to the dissension that was prevalent last season for the players that went in their own directions. The fans want results during the season. If Haynesworth thinks he can do what it takes to make his play better on the field, then the fans will rejoice.

The bottom line is that the Redskins created this situation by paying that much for a player so you would assume that they will tolerate whatever in order to keep him happy and playing up to their standards. The Redskins gave him that latitude when they set his salary plateau. Just maybe after this season, Haynesworth will involve the current training staff with his current workout regiment.