CNN: US Missionaries Charged with Kidnapping in Haiti

[AsburySkinsFan]

I've been hearing about this since it happened and I'm totally not sure where I'm at on this. What say you all?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/02/04/haiti.arrests/index.html?hpt=C1

Ten Americans detained last week while trying to take 33 Haitian children out of the country were charged Thursday with kidnapping children and criminal association, a government official said. Information Minister Marie Laurence Lassegue's announcement came shortly after the five men and five women left a hearing at the prosecutor's office.

Under Haitian law, anyone accused of kidnapping a child is not eligible for bail, the attorney general's office said.

Conviction on the kidnapping charge carries a maximum penalty of life in prison; the criminal association charge carries a penalty of three to nine years, according to a former justice minister.

Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive told CNN's "Larry King Live" on Thursday night that the judge in the case has three months to decide whether to prosecute.

"We hope that he will decide long before those three months," he said. "He can release them, he can ask to prosecute them."

If a decision is made to prosecute, the case would be heard before a jury, he said.

Told that the families of the detained Americans had pleaded for him to intervene, Bellerive said he could not.

"Those people are not in the hands of the government; they are in the hands of justice," he said. "We have to respect the law. It is clear that the people violated the law. What we have to understand is if they did it in good faith."

Bellerive said the Haitian government was open to the possibility of the case being transferred to a U.S. court but said the request would have to come from the United States. "Until now, I was not asked," he said.

He expressed gratitude for the work of the vast majority of Americans who have helped in the aftermath of the January 12 earthquake that he said killed at least 212,000 people.

The Americans were turned back Friday as they tried to take the children across the border into the Dominican Republic without proper documentation. They said they were going to house them in a converted hotel in that country and later move them to an orphanage they were building there.

"We can confirm that the 10 American citizens remain in custody in Haiti," said State Department deputy spokesman Gordon Duguid. "We continue to provide appropriate consular assistance and to monitor developments in the legal case."

The Americans have said they were just trying to help the children leave the earthquake-stricken country.

Some of the detained Americans have said they thought they were helping orphans, but their interpreters said Wednesday that they were present when group members spoke with the children's parents. Some parents in a village outside Port-au-Prince said they had willingly given their children over to the Americans, who promised them a better life and who said they could see their children whenever they wanted to.

Government approval is needed for any Haitian child to leave the country, and the group acknowledged that the children had no passports.

Some members of the group belong to the Central Valley Baptist Church in Meridian, Idaho. One of the church's ministers asked for privacy and would not discuss the matter.

"I know you have many questions but we don't have answers right now," Drew Ham, assistant pastor, said in a note to reporters.

P.J. Crowley, a spokesman for the U.S. State Department, has said that U.S. officials have been given unlimited consular access to the Americans and that U.S. and Haitian authorities are "working to try to ascertain what happened [and] the motive behind these people.

"Clearly, there are questions about procedure as to whether they had the appropriate paperwork to move the children," he said Wednesday.

[twa]

I'd go with guilty but not prosecuted if it was a option.

They violated the law,but prosecution is a waste of time and resources

Settle out of court

[The 12th Commandment]

I find them naively arrogant. There was a component to this involving "saving" these kids. It follows, at least to me, that someone so sure they could "save" people would think their mission is above the law.

[sacase]

I don't know. About a week or so prior to this, there was explicit instructions about not removing hatian children from Haiti. I am sorry just because you are a missionary doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want to do in a poor country. If you want to move the children out of the country then you had better have permission form both haiti and the US. I have no problems with this idiots spending a significant amount of time in jail.

[twa]

A rather significant fine might be better for both parties.imo

Haiti cannot just let it go,but it seems a waste of resources

[mardi gras skin]

From the Central Valley Baptist website

http://www.centralvalleybaptist.net/cvbc09/splash/haiti_statement.cfm?CFID=36757542&CFTOKEN=51870033

We are anxious, fearful and concerned about our family members, especially the young people who are jailed in a foreign country. Obviously, we do not know details about what happened and didn't happen on this mission. However, we are absolutely convinced that those who were recruited to join this mission traveled to Haiti to help, not hurt, these children. We are pleading to the Haitian Prime Minister to focus his energies on the critical tasks ahead for the country and to forgive mistakes that were made by a group of Americans trying to assist Haiti's children.

[The 12th Commandment]

From the Central Valley Baptist website...

That's the thing though, some peoples idea of help, and I grant that they feel it very strongly and sincerely, is not universally recognized as help. Asking terrified parents, in the throes of dealing with a catastrophe like the earthquake, if they want to give up their kids so they can have a better life (never mind they'll be given a better after life too) is beyond questionable.

Edit: I'm sure this situation is why they made the rules preventing kids from being moved till things settle down some.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Is it against the rules to say that I agree with everyone so far?

I know that as a pastor I would be writing something very similar to what was on the church's web site. But also as a pastor I would have tried to impress upon them to obey the laws and the wishes of the Haitian government. They went there to help that's a given, and I think they thought they were helping, but they also knew that they were not supposed to take the children out without government approval (http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/02/04/haiti.border.arrests/index.html?iref=allsearch) and so their continued action suggested that they were above Haitian law.

I think that KAOSkins when he said this team was naively arrogant pretty much hits the nail on the head for me. Now as for jail time, I'm tempted to think that the Haitian government is setting an example here and will hold them for a time before imposing a fine and then eventually releasing them to the States sans the kids, but I don't know. I heard on NPR this morning that the judge has three months to decide on his/her verdict with no open trial (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123377399). I'm wondering if they stay for that period of time before being charged guilty and sent home time served.

[mardi gras skin]

That's the thing though, some peoples idea of help, and I grant that they feel it very strongly and sincerely, is not universally recognized as help. Asking terrified parents, in the throes of dealing with a catastrophe like the earthquake, if they want to give up their kids so they can have a better life (never mind they'll be given a better after life too) is beyond questionable.

KAOSkins, none of us think they went there to do harm. And I don't think anyone questions the fact that went about it the wrong way. But what should be done about it? Do you really think they should get prison sentences?

They should leave the country and they don't need to go back. That's it.

[Old Bay]

Yeah, this one is a bit tricky. I don't doubt that their hearts were in the right place, but they should've handled it better. I find it interesting that their defense lawyer will defend everyone but the leader of the group.

[Corcaigh]

They need to be punished in some form for their behavior.

I don't think prison is fruitful but a very clear message needs to be sent that they can't act outside the law like they did. They knew full well they were doing was wrong and carried it through anyway.

[Dan T.]

I read an article this morning saying the group's Haitian and Dominican lawyers expect 9 of the 10 to be released, and that only Laura Silsby, the mission leader, will face prosecution. Their Haitian attorney threw her under the proverbial bus, saying she deceived the others. "They were naive," he said. "They had no idea what was going on, and they did not know that they needed official papers to cross the border. But Silsby did."

(He also said he is still representing her! With counsel like that...)

[@DCGoldPants]

I agree with those who see this as a tough situation.

Do I think they were good intentioned? Yes

Do I think they broke the law? Yes

I think there should be a punishment. Don't know about prison. I do find them arrogant also. To just handle it that way.

I think their church should be very clear that they understand what they did was wrong. Not post excuses and wanting to help on their website.

Just say "Our people were good intentioned....but made a mistake. We understand that"

[AsburySkinsFan]

I read an article this morning saying the group's Haitian and Dominican lawyers expect 9 of the 10 to be released, and that only Laura Silsby, the mission leader, will face prosecution. Their Haitian attorney threw her under the proverbial bus, saying she deceived the others. "They were naive," he said. "They had no idea what was going on, and they did not know that they needed official papers to cross the border. But Silsby did."

(He also said he is still representing her! With counsel like that...)

Do you have a link, I'd like to read that.

[Midnight Judges]

Sounds like an honest mistake. I don't see what good it would do to throw these people in jail. They are clearly not a threat to anyone.

[Corcaigh]

Sounds like an honest mistake.

My understanding is that the group leader (at least) was warned by an official that what she was doing was illegal, but they did it anyway.

When journalists visited them in prison asking them to tell their side of the story they responded by singing hymns. It seems like they thought they were above the law here.

[AsburySkinsFan]

My understanding is that the group leader (at least) was warned by an official that what she was doing was illegal, but they did it anyway.

Yep.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/02/04/haiti.border.arrests/index.html?iref=allsearch

When journalists visited them in prison asking them to tell their side of the story they responded by singing hymns. It seems like they thought they were above the law here.

Hadn't heard that, but that's not the way to respond, but then if they were told not to talk to the press maybe that was their "no comment" still I'd not be happy as their pastor.

[Dan T.]

Do you have a link, I'd like to read that.

Here it is...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/05/AR2010020500327.html

[Hunter44]

Sounds like an honest mistake. I don't see what good it would do to throw these people in jail. They are clearly not a threat to anyone.

So if someone stole your kids because they thought they could give them a better life than you, you'd be okay with that??

These people are criminals and should be delt with as such. Stealing children and sneaking out of the country with them...:doh:

[Veretax]

I can't help feel that facts are missing in this one. THere is more to this story, so I'll reserve judgment until I know more.

[Midnight Judges]

So if someone stole your kids because they thought they could give them a better life than you, you'd be okay with that??

These people are criminals and should be delt with as such. Stealing children and sneaking out of the country with them...:doh:

I thought the article said people gave their children to these people. Kind of a big difference between that and kidnapping.

edit, from the article:

Some parents in a village outside Port-au-Prince said they had willingly given their children over to the Americans, who promised them a better life and who said they could see their children whenever they wanted to.

[Midnight Judges]

My understanding is that the group leader (at least) was warned by an official that what she was doing was illegal, but they did it anyway.

When journalists visited them in prison asking them to tell their side of the story they responded by singing hymns. It seems like they thought they were above the law here.

mmm, that does kind of change things.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Here it is...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/05/AR2010020500327.html

Silsby (group leader) ""We expect God's will be done. And we will be released," :doh: Don't say that! Dear Lord don't say that!! Now all of the sudden if the Haitian government does charge her and or the others they are now supposedly acting in opposition to God's will. :doh: Dang why don't people just keep their mouths shut.

[Dan T.]

So if someone stole your kids because they thought they could give them a better life than you, you'd be okay with that??

These people are criminals and should be delt with as such. Stealing children and sneaking out of the country with them...:doh:

Those childrens parents also looked very happy to see them returned.

From what I've read, the parents willingly let the children go. The children weren't stolen as you characterize it.

The group's offense was that they didn't go through legal channels and didn't get all the necessary paperwork. You could also argue that they took advantage of desperate parents faced with few options. But they didn't "snatch" the children away, by all accounts I've seen.

[Corcaigh]

Yep.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/02/04/haiti.border.arrests/index.html?iref=allsearch

That's full of disturbing stuff ...

A CNN reporter attempted to get reaction to Castillo's comment from the jailed Americans, but they would not discuss the matter, responding to questions by singing "Amazing Grace" and praying.

The group has no experience running an orphanage, has not registered as an international adoption agency and has not filed with the U.S. government as a nonprofit.

Church pastor Clint Henry was unfazed. "I believe that the kind of knowledge that it takes to begin an organization that works that way was in place," he told CNN. "The kind of employees that it takes to successfully run an orphanage, those were going to be hired."