CNN: US Missionaries Charged with Kidnapping in Haiti

[Special K]

We just had a very similar conversation with someone from the DR who is working with pastors in Haiti. He's worked all over Latin America, Africa, and Asia and he he's seen some bad stuff. Haiti shocks him.

He's convinced that the best way to make change is in very small situations that might fly under the radar. Over the past several years, they've built relationships with less than a dozen pastors of small/poor churches and they're working with these guys to direct very small scale initiatives. Basically, he thinks its going to take thousands of small initiatives rather than larger more organized campaigns in order to work under the government radar.

And he says that the Haitian government is working overtime to take control of all the aide money pouring into their country. :mad:

Interesting to hear this from another source too. The NGO Country Director for Madagascar that I talked with has been all over too. Born and raised in Malawi, worked in at least 6 countries in Africa, worked in Southeast Asia, Haiti, then back to Africa. When I asked him what the worst conditions were that he had been in, the immediate answer was Haiti, "by far." I guess our NGO asked him to go back to head its Haiti operations after the earthquake and he declined, said he'd already put his family through enough living there for 3 years.

It's interesting what your guy said about the small initiatives. That sounds probably like the only way things could get turned around there. Problem is making that many local connections and having that many small operations is a logistical nightmare.

And, for anything to be sustainable in a developing country, you have to have the support of the people. People must be willing to put in some effort to change their way of life. From what the director told me, he didn't get the sense that the general population even wanted to do that. There were several people he talked to during his time there who had substantial land outside Port-Au-Prince. But they did nothing with the land at all. They didn't plan any type of crops to ensure food security. Nothing. We he asked many of them why, a lot of them said they had relatives in the US or whatnot sending them enough money to get by each month and they were content with that. Obviously that doesn't encompass the entire Haitian population, but he said he ran into that type of sentiment way moreso there than anywhere else he's ever worked.

[Special K]

Looks like they may have been innocent all along, interesting how excited some get when they think they may have something on Christians.

I am actually still not okay with aid workers or missionaries or whoever taking children away from their families, voluntarily or not.

I think it is very likely in these types of situations, particularly in rushed situations, parents don't fully understand the implications of sending their children away to "live a better life." Distraught and frustrated parents can be coerced in these types of situations, details can be lost in translation, lots of things can go wrong and be misunderstood.

I guess I'm just not okay with children being removed from their natural environment if their parents/nuclear family are still alive.

[mardi gras skin]

It's interesting what your guy said about the small initiatives. That sounds probably like the only way things could get turned around there. Problem is making that many local connections and having that many small operations is a logistical nightmare.

And, for anything to be sustainable in a developing country, you have to have the support of the people. People must be willing to put in some effort to change their way of life.

Their plan is to find as many solid churches as they can and match up a church from the Dominican with a church in Haiti they can trust. Churches here in the states are supporting the churches in the DR with resources and personnel. But its a DR church driven initiative. Those churches in the DR have lots of experience with Haitian illegals, and a clearer understanding of the needs and limitations of the Haitian environment. They're the experts, we're there to help where they need it.

I think its a very good strategy but there are probably only enough contacts in this network between the US, the DR, and Haiti to reach about 30 different communities. Its going to take hundreds of other organizations doing similar things in Haiti to turn things around.

[JMS]

I am actually still not okay with aid workers or missionaries or whoever taking children away from their families, voluntarily or not.

I think it is very likely in these types of situations, particularly in rushed situations, parents don't fully understand the implications of sending their children away to "live a better life." Distraught and frustrated parents can be coerced in these types of situations, details can be lost in translation, lots of things can go wrong and be misunderstood.

I guess I'm just not okay with children being removed from their natural environment if their parents/nuclear family are still alive.

I think you are giving up too quickly on this one. I heard the eight guys released from Hati are still facing charges in the United States for kidnapping. The Hatian judge just decided they didn't have the infrastructure to punish them so he's allowing the US to punish them...

"One (8-year-old) girl was crying, and saying, 'I am not an orphan. I still have my parents.' And she thought she was going on a summer camp or a boarding school or something like that," George Willeit, a spokesman for SOS Children's Villages, said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/02/01/crimesider/entry6162491.shtml

That's freaking heartbreaking.

Also the Hatian judge is still holding two of the "Baptists". Two women who traveled to Hati before the quake and tried to set up "adoptions".... It doesn't help the "Baptists" case any that their lawyer himself is wanted in El Salvador for human trafficing either.... (Jorge Puello) http://www.myurbanhangout.com/showthread.php?t=31509

It does seem to me "a better life for the kids" was not the primary motivation of the organizers of this group. Most missionaries when informed of the law, wouldn't flout it like these folks did. Most missionaries wouldn't represent kids with parrents, as orphans in order to justify their transportation...

Anybody know if these are real Baptists or just a loose group calling themselves Baptists like those knuckle heads who show up at the funerals for our fallen troops?

[DRSmith]

Looks like they may have been innocent all along, interesting how excited some get when they think they may have something on Christians.

Full Link

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,586522,00.html

You mean like the fact their legal advisor is wanted for traficing women?

And I believe Christians try to keep famalies together not kidnap the kids for their own feeling of self worth.

[JMS]

And I believe Christians try to keep famalies together not kidnap the kids for their own feeling of self worth.

I think you are bing kind. It's my understanding that these guys have already built an orphanage in the Dominican Republic. That takes a lot of fund raising. Pictures of Hatian orphans in their orphanage was probable worth a lot of money in increased charatable support to these folks...

I don't think "feeling of self worth" was their motivation. It might have been part of their justification; but I think their motivation was much more controversial.

[Zguy28]

Anybody know if these are real Baptists or just a loose group calling themselves Baptists like those knuckle heads who show up at the funerals for our fallen troops?

I know the mother of their Pastor in Idaho. I don't know her son Pastor Drew Ham personally, but I know several people who do, who I trust as forthright, honest, and law-abiding people. They say nothing but good things about him and his congregation. I know his mother helped us get our clean water mission started in Moldova. They are Southern Baptists as far as I know. :whoknows:

[Special K]

I don't think "feeling of self worth" was their motivation. It might have been part of their justification; but I think their motivation was much more controversial.

Meh, I doubt that. At least for the large majority of the group.

I think they were ignorant, misguided and acted incredibly foolishly, but no matter how much I disagree with their actions, I highly doubt these church members had any malevolent intent.