Potential To Add 5 Picks

[No_Pressure]

I would also like to point out that having a lot of picks one year isn't the key to building a team. Who remembers when the Cowboys had a lot of picks in 2007 or so and they had many of them end up getting cut?

You need to keep all 7 picks and hopefully find a way to add 1 or 2 every season IMO. If you have 8 draft picks, and you have 1,2,3, and 4, I think you are in a very solid position.

[method man]

In my opinion, tight ends are one of the easier positions to fill next to RB on offense, and we have two of them so it isn't exactly a big bargaining chip. Of course he made the pro bowl and he has great stats but he's coming off an injury. I don't think any team would give up a 2nd round pick to acquire him. I may be wrong but thats just what I think.

Moss has little to no trade value. He's a 30 year old small speed WR who hasn't really produced in an outstanding fashion since 2005. How many years does he really have left? A team would have to be insane to trade a 3rd rounder for him. I see a 5th being his value.

LaRon Landry, in spite of his terrible play is worth a late 2nd to 3rd round pick. Safeties aren't hard to find but he is still young and very physically gifted. I think he would be highly valued by other franchises in spite of his many issues.

I think Carlos walks next year doesn't he? I thought this was the last year of his deal just like Campbell. He doesn't want to be here so he isn't going to be back, on top of that only in Madden can you sign the best players to your team and trade them to other teams so I don't think he would even be available for that. Carlos is another player who is given a bum rep here. He has made mistakes but every corner does, even Darrell Green had some games where he got beat badly. It wasn't often but it happened. Carlos is generally very solid in his coverage and while he doesn't pick off passes which is awful, he is a sure tackler and a physical player. I think he is worth a 2nd to 3rd rather than a 4th.

Campbell is in a contract year as well. A. He won't sign and be traded like I said. B. If he was signed to the roster, you would have maybe 3-5 teams interested in trading for him. C. None of those teams are interested to the point of giving up a 4th round pick for a guy that they probably don't want to be building any long term goals around. D. He is only worth a 6th to 7th pick in my opinion. No good teams trade picks for backup quarterbacks. He will be one of three things: a backup for a very good team, a starter for a very bad team that isn't the Redskins, or a starter for the very bad team the Redskins who tried to **** him over last off season, don't have any long term commitments to him, and where the city in general isn't very kind to him.

In my opinion he gives the franchise and this city the finger and boards that plane to Buffalo, Cleveland, Oakland, Carolina, St. Louis, etc. I wouldn't blame him.

So what you really have here is :

Cooley: 3rd or 4th

Moss: 5th

Landry: Late 2nd or 3rd

Rogers: If not FA, 2nd or 3rd

Campbell: No chance of obtaining draft picks.

I think you are uninformed.

As someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, both Winslow and Shockey fetched a 2nd and a 5th. If Cooley tore a ligament, then yeah, we'd be in trouble, trade-wise. However, he only broke a bone and this is not considered a big deal. If anything, I'm undervaluing him. Bargaining position? We are not an immediate need to dump either guy, which ups our position. Furthermore, I'd expect half the league to place a bid for this guy.

Moss may not fetch a 3rd but at the minimum he should fetch a 4th. He still remains one of the better deep threats in the game and these types of players are more rare than possession guys.

Landry won't get you a 2nd. The guy has never made a Pro Bowl and does not have a track record of big plays. I think a 3rd may be possible, though. You have to remember safety is one of the least valued positions in the league.

If uncapped, Rogers and Campbell would be RFAs. On the surface, Campbell appears to be the best QB available in the market. He should at the minimum fetch a 4th from a team like Carolina or Buffalo. Good teams don't trade for backups? What about the Patriots making an offer for Collins this season, which we rebuffed?

[method man]

I'm all for building through the draft, but what exactly is the point of letting go of productive players an replacing them with lesser ones.

There's no way you're going to replace the production of Cooley, Moss, Campbell, Rogers and Landry with a bunch of rookies, and certainly not 3rd of 4th rounders.

Talent wins in this league, and judging by the last few weeks we're starting to finally uncover some of it at the skill positions.

Most teams dream of having even one guy like Cooley in their lineup, with Davis coming along nicely we could potentially feature two!

You build on that if you want to win, not tear it down.

We're not replacing productive players with lesser ones. The ones we are replacing these players with are showing that they can be as good, if not better. For example, we replace Landry with Moore or Horton, 2 guys who are more disciplined players and very worthy of being starters. We replace Rogers with Tryon, who has been great for us this year. We replace Cooley with Davis, who I showed earlier in this thread is playing like a Pro Bowler. We replace Moss with more PT for Marko Mitchell.

By trading these proven players for top 120 rookies, yes, we are taking on a risk, but we are setting ourselves up great at a financial level by moving all these contracts during this uncapped year with rookie deals for the next 4 years.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE HAVE A LOT OF HOLES TO FILL AND WE CURRENTLY DON'T HAVE THE PICKS TO CORRECT THIS AND THE FA MARKETS ARE FROZEN THIS OFFSEASON DUE TO THE IMPENDING UNCAPPED YEAR

[DeadExField]

If uncapped,

Cooley for a 2nd

Moss for a 3rd

Landry for a 4th

Rogers for a 4th

Campbell for a 4th

This, in addition to our own 1st, 2nd, and 4th, would provide us 8 picks in the first 4 rounds with the potential to add more to rebuild this team through the draft.

With those 8 picks, you could pick up a LT, RT, SLB, DT, G, C, QB, and RB.

Would suck to lose Cooley but think about it

I would never trade Cooley. He's not only a great player, but he brings personality to the team which is a great thing. I would never trade Moss, Landry, or Rogers. No one would want Campbell anyway... I would maybe trade Rogers if we could.

the whole list is :doh:

[method man]

I would also like to point out that having a lot of picks one year isn't the key to building a team. Who remembers when the Cowboys had a lot of picks in 2007 or so and they had many of them end up getting cut?

You need to keep all 7 picks and hopefully find a way to add 1 or 2 every season IMO. If you have 8 draft picks, and you have 1,2,3, and 4, I think you are in a very solid position.

Stop making up BS. The Patriots just drafted 12 guys. Every single guy made the team (Richard counts too as a practice squad player). Chung, Brace, Bulter, Vollmer, Pryor, and Edelman have all been contributers this year.

If our new GM has a keen eye, then, yes, we can have the type of draft that can really repair key parts of this team.

[RedskinWarship]

you've all gone mad. Trade Cooley? I repeat, you are all mad.

THIS!!!!!!!!

can we have a couple career redskins every once in a while please

[flock53]

If uncapped,

Cooley for a 2nd

Moss for a 3rd

Landry for a 4th

Rogers for a 4th

Campbell for a 4th

This, in addition to our own 1st, 2nd, and 4th, would provide us 8 picks in the first 4 rounds with the potential to add more to rebuild this team through the draft.

With those 8 picks, you could pick up a LT, RT, SLB, DT, G, C, QB, and RB.

Would suck to lose Cooley but think about it

I believe Rogers and Campbell are FRA at years end, so no trade value for them.

Cooley for Jake Grove (C, Dolphins)- I like Davis enough 2 move Chris

Carter for Robert Gallery (OL, Raiders)-Move Rak to full time DE

Moss for David Baas (OG, 49ers)

Landry for Bob Sanders and a 5th- I know he cant stay healthy but #30 SUCKS so bad, I'll take a chance, #30 would fit there scheme near LOS

[No_Pressure]

I think you are uninformed.

As someone else pointed out earlier in this thread, both Winslow and Shockey fetched a 2nd and a 5th. If Cooley tore a ligament, then yeah, we'd be in trouble, trade-wise. However, he only broke a bone and this is not considered a big deal. If anything, I'm undervaluing him. Bargaining position? We are not an immediate need to dump either guy, which ups our position. Furthermore, I'd expect half the league to place a bid for this guy.

Sure, half the league might place a bid for him, but I really don't think he would go for a 2nd. I don't see him having that kind of value. I don't want to say that Shockey and Winslow are better players because they aren't, but I just don't see how a team could give up a 2nd for a player when they could just keep the pick and draft a good TE in the 2nd or 3rd themselves. I thought it was a stupid trade when the Bucs got Winslow and when the Saints got Shockey. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how tight ends would go this high.

Moss may not fetch a 3rd but at the minimum he should fetch a 4th. He still remains one of the better deep threats in the game and these types of players are more rare than possession guys.

I disagree that even a good deep threat would get a 4th. Those types of players are rare, and ones that can do it for very long past 30 are even more rare aren't they? I don't think he has that kind of value.

Landry won't get you a 2nd. The guy has never made a Pro Bowl and does not have a track record of big plays. I think a 3rd may be possible, though. You have to remember safety is one of the least valued positions in the league.

He hasn't made the pro bowl and he makes a lot of mistakes in coverage, but when he was playing his natural position nobody seemed to be complaining. I know safety isn't valued very highly but he has been rising in value over the past few years. I think his raw physical abilities and the fact that he's 25 would be important to some teams. I think he's one of those players that would surprise you by how interested other teams are in him.

If uncapped, Rogers and Campbell would be RFAs. On the surface, Campbell appears to be the best QB available in the market. He should at the minimum fetch a 4th from a team like Carolina or Buffalo. Good teams don't trade for backups? What about the Patriots making an offer for Collins this season, which we rebuffed?

I don't know how RFA works but isn't the draft pick compensation based on the offer from our team vs. the other team's? Who is to say Campbell would be valued as a 4th round draft choice? Also, name a team that has traded a 4th round draft pick for a backup QB in the off season in the past 10 years. Not one that tried to or was rumored to have tried to, I mean one that actually did it.

You didn't comment on Rogers either. Corners are highly valued, are they not? I think a 2nd or 3rd for Rogers would make sense.

[soljaofjesus]

How about we just run alot of 2 TE formations?

[OU_skins]

All salary cap ramifications aside, I'd cut landry. He is a moron and an embarrassment. If we could get something for him I would be cool with that. I don't know who would want him though.

[SkinsMaster88]

I think Davis has played great, but also he might not receive the constant attention of D-coordinators that Cooley has earned over his career. In the past, defenses could just shut down Moss and Cooley, and then our passing game would be stagnant. The emergence of the young trio allows us to build a more varied offense.

Moving players for draft picks can allow for a complete rebuilding that has been a long time coming, but what knowledge do you have that having 8-10 draft picks will result in guys sticking on the 53 man roster? You look at the great drafting teams around the league, they still don't hold on to all their rookies. Yes, more picks allows you greater chances to getting the next steal, but I wouldn't put too many eggs in one basket in that case. Trading proven veterans for unknown later round rookies doesn't necessarily improve the team.

Cooley to me would still be too valuable, even if it could be seen as a luxury with 2 pass catching TEs. Moss for a 3rd would be fine, but who's gonna trade for a 31 year old receiver with only 3 1000-yd seasons and 1 double-digit TD set. Moss has been a gamechanger in the past for us, but I agree that the youth at WR could take that spot. The question is, who will be willing to part with a 3rd rounder for that?

Landry and Rogers are guys that are just inconsistent. Both of them could be parts of maintaining a strong secondary. They just have to stop biting on double moves. Rogers would almost never get burned before this season (his stone hands are another matter). Landry at least brings an intimidating presence to the defense. Yes, his athleticism allows him the range to be a FS, but honestly, his entire mentality is that of a SS. We would be much better served having another guy as our primary coverage safety, or change up the scheme from the deep cover 1 with Landry as the sole guy back. He's too aggressive to have that responsibility. Getting 4th round picks for both players would yield guys with much less talent. You open up more holes as well. Smoot is in his 30s. Tryon has played well, but we all thought he was a bust last year. Barnes has been active for only 2 games. Horton, Moore, and Doughty are solid, but pure talent doesn't reach Landry's level, and a 4th rounder won't be much else.

Campbell as a 4th comes from a decision to let him go. Yes, that's been likely since the offseason when the front office tried to get anyone besides him. The fact remains, that given time, he can make the throws. Remarkably enough, he's seemed to get better against the harder competition this season against a complete makeshift OL. Who do you end up replacing Campbell with? The OL concerns are the most important factor. It's naiive to think that we could end up with a player like Brees, Brady, or Manning through FA/draft. Can you really get a significant upgrade at the QB position? Even with the highly hyped college QBs, each of them have plenty of their own question marks.

Consideration of these trades is fine, but in the end, I don't know anymore if it would help the team. I was among those who felt we should reconstruct the whole roster. However, I'd rather start with getting rid of the overpriced vets than trading away the younger talent.

[TotalRecall]

If uncapped,

Cooley for a 2nd

Moss for a 3rd

Landry for a 4th

Rogers for a 4th

Campbell for a 4th

This, in addition to our own 1st, 2nd, and 4th, would provide us 8 picks in the first 4 rounds with the potential to add more to rebuild this team through the draft.

With those 8 picks, you could pick up a LT, RT, SLB, DT, G, C, QB, and RB.

Would suck to lose Cooley but think about it

Trading Cooley for a second would be fine. I think Fred Davis is ready.

I would like to get rid of Moss. He can't run routes and he can't catch. And we don't need both Moss and Randle El (who can run routes and catch from the slot WR). We're not getting a 3rd-rounder for him though because of his age...probably a 5th rounder.

We could get a 1st or 2nd for Landry. I bet the Saints would love him as SS. I'd rather have Doughty as SS.

We possibly could sucker somebody into a 3rd rounder for Rogers. Not every team knows how bad he is.

Campbell is fine as a 4th rounder. Teams don't respect him.

Defensively, we would need to look for young DEs...unless we move Orakpo to DE, then we need another SLB. By trading LL, we would need a FS. Probably need to look for another CB.

Offensively, we need 2 QBs (maybe a veteran like Vick as a backup), RB, 2 tackles, and another WR if Kelly or Mitchell can't start.

Special Teams, we need a FG kicker and PR.

[method man]

Sure, half the league might place a bid for him, but I really don't think he would go for a 2nd. I don't see him having that kind of value. I don't want to say that Shockey and Winslow are better players because they aren't, but I just don't see how a team could give up a 2nd for a player when they could just keep the pick and draft a good TE in the 2nd or 3rd themselves. I thought it was a stupid trade when the Bucs got Winslow and when the Saints got Shockey. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see how tight ends would go this high.

I disagree that even a good deep threat would get a 4th. Those types of players are rare, and ones that can do it for very long past 30 are even more rare aren't they? I don't think he has that kind of value.

He hasn't made the pro bowl and he makes a lot of mistakes in coverage, but when he was playing his natural position nobody seemed to be complaining. I know safety isn't valued very highly but he has been rising in value over the past few years. I think his raw physical abilities and the fact that he's 25 would be important to some teams. I think he's one of those players that would surprise you by how interested other teams are in him.

I don't know how RFA works but isn't the draft pick compensation based on the offer from our team vs. the other team's? Who is to say Campbell would be valued as a 4th round draft choice? Also, name a team that has traded a 4th round draft pick for a backup QB in the off season in the past 10 years. Not one that tried to or was rumored to have tried to, I mean one that actually did it.

You didn't comment on Rogers either. Corners are highly valued, are they not? I think a 2nd or 3rd for Rogers would make sense.

If anything, the fact that this offseason is uncapped makes Cooley's trade value even higher for 2 reasons. One, it will be harder to procure a TE via FA. Two, because we are trading Cooley, we are eating his signing bonus so the cap hit (in future seasons after this uncapped year) will be less. There is also one known stud TE in this draft (Gresham) and he is going in the first round. For these bad teams, acquiring a Pro Bowler for a 2nd round pick is great publicity.

As you pointed out earlier, there are some trades which might not make sense to you. Among all the dumb GMs out there, I am confident that at least one would give up a 3rd or a 4th for Moss. The Browns, for example, have Massaquoi as their #1 WR. Given Mangini's suckiness as a personnel guy and propensity to trade picks for players, I think he'd fork over a 4th for Moss.

The only thing Landry has going for him are those raw physical abilities and that he is young. Teams have film and what they see are missed tackles, a lack of big plays, blown coverages, and character issues (personal fouls and excess showboating). Considering all these negatives, I think if we could get a 3rd, great. However, I more realistically expect a 4th.

RFAs don't have to be signed to get compensation but they can also be traded. That is how we got Lloyd. We traded a 3rd and 4th for him instead of giving up a 1st round pick, which is what we would have given up if we had just signed him. You also seem fixated on the idea that Campbell is a backup QB, but I think it is fair to say some teams out there don't agree with you. While many NFL people see Campbell as a backup, there are many out there who disagree on that.

CB is a premium position, but Rogers is a guy who has been benched twice (once last year and once this year), has shown character issues (comments to the press), and lacks big play ability. Again, if we can snag a 3rd for him, great, but I more realistically expect a 4th.

[Smoot Point Really]

Rumors are that he outplayed Cassel in preseason but the Chiefs stuck with Cassel, of course, because they gave him the contract. Another guy I'd want to give a shot is Brian Hoyer. There must be a reason the Patriots have kept this guy, an undrafted rookie, as the #2 QB, given Brady's injury issues.

Outside of luck in drafting Tom Brady... The Patriots haven't been all that impressive. They certainly don't win Super Bowls without him. One franchise QB makes all the difference, and they passed on him at least 4 or 5 times themselves. Without Brady, they probably don't land Moss. Cassel benefitted from having system and players like Welker & Moss in place. Hoyer is there because there isn't anyone else.

I'm convinced that Tom Brady revived/created a bunch of careers of men who probably wouldn't be labeled "genius" without him starting with Belichek, Weiss, Pioli, Kraft, Mangini, & McDaniels. I'm sure their are others...

That being said... I believe anyone who leaves the team Brady built would probably be over-rated wherever they land.

[Smoot Point Really]

You shouldn't trade Rogers or Campbell... I'd argue more, but I'm using logic that only applies to them. In an uncapped year they are RFA and you tender them offers equal to what you want to receive in compensation. Campbell is looking like a very high pick at this point, even if I am disappointed in his decision making at times.

[Veretax]

If uncapped,

Cooley for a 2nd

Moss for a 3rd

Landry for a 4th

Rogers for a 4th

Campbell for a 4th

This, in addition to our own 1st, 2nd, and 4th, would provide us 8 picks in the first 4 rounds with the potential to add more to rebuild this team through the draft.

With those 8 picks, you could pick up a LT, RT, SLB, DT, G, C, QB, and RB.

Would suck to lose Cooley but think about it

So you would trade 5 players for five rookies. There is no guarantee that all five that you get will be able to fill the wholes we have, and what's worse, yo might replace a RB, and some line man, but now we've got problems in our secondary. Doesn't make sense to me. And why the heck do we need a DT?

[PlayAction]

Trading Cooley for a second would be fine. I think Fred Davis is ready.I'm glad to see that Davis has finally gotten the opportunities on the field. The team needs to decide whether both players will be able to have sufficient playing time next season. Otherwise, the Skins are just wasting talent on the bench. Of course, this was the concern when the Skins drafted Davis in the first place. I'm of the opinion that Skins need to keep as many play-makers as possible. So I'd like to see the WCO tweaked to allow 2 TE or Cooley as HB. The other alternative that should be explored by a GM would be to trade Cooley and use the draft pick(s) to solidify the team in other areas. I'm sure the Skins would do just fine with one pass catching TE + blocking TEs that can ocassionally catch the ball, e.g., Yoder.

I would like to get rid of Moss. He can't run routes and he can't catch. And we don't need both Moss and Randle El (who can run routes and catch from the slot WR). We're not getting a 3rd-rounder for him though because of his age...probably a 5th rounder. Too harsh on Moss IMO. He was the second most productive receiver in the NO game. However, I agree that a competent GM would need to evaluate whether he's worth the Snyder contract he has and whether the $$$ could be more productively used in other areas. I'd don't know if he's tall enough for Campbell to be productive as a slot WR. But he's as shifty as Wes Welker so that might be an option.

We could get a 1st or 2nd for Landry. I bet the Saints would love him as SS. I'd rather have Doughty as SS.

OK - well I've never been a real fan of using very high first round picks (two!) on safeties. I just think a team can get more bang for the buck using those high draft picks on other positions. Doughty has turned out to be a decent SS and he was a cheap draft pick. However, Landry is probably a better SS and is a faster blitzer (he got to Brees). For a first round pick I might be willing to trade Landry as he's not really been productive at FS. But I'd like to see if he could become a game-changer at SS. I wouldn't mind Doughty as backup SS. I don't know what we'd do with Horton/Moore. We'd need a true FS on the team.

We possibly could sucker somebody into a 3rd rounder for Rogers. Not every team knows how bad he is. I don't think Rogers is bad in coverage. He gets beat twice on double moves and gets benched. Landry is beaten 3 times on double moves (for TDs) and still plays. Rogers has hands of stone but he tackles well and during the Williams tenure he did really well in blitz packages.

Campbell is fine as a 4th rounder. Teams don't respect him.I'd rather have Campbell than a 4th rounder. Think of it this way...would you rather have Campbell as backup QB or an unknown 4th round QB as backup?

Defensively, we would need to look for young DEs...unless we move Orakpo to DE, then we need another SLB. By trading LL, we would need a FS. Probably need to look for another CB. DEs = Carter, Orakpo, Jarmon, Wilson. I don't know whether Daniels will still be on the team next year. I'd rather get a SLB than another DE. I'd get another DT before a DE

Offensively, we need 2 QBs (maybe a veteran like Vick as a backup), RB, 2 tackles, and another WR if Kelly or Mitchell can't start. Vick? Are you kidding me? He would be lousy in a WCO. I agree that the Skins need to start replacing RBs but that should be low on the priority list given the other needs IMO. If the Skins run 2 TE sets then there will be less playing time for the full complement of WRs. A low draft pick on a WR would be okay if the WR has the highest value but otherwise try to steal one off of some other team's practice squad. 2 Tackles? Perhaps. Levi Jones is a short term solution. Skins need to build the OL for the long-term. Heyer is fine as a backup and hopefully Williams can continue to improve at RG. But the line overall is still old. So I'd like to see two quality guys come in to compete. I'd take whatever is available including Gs and Cs.

Special Teams, we need a FG kicker and PR.

[Burgold]

Landry is getting near Archuletta territory. Pretty soon asking a fourth for him may be asking for too much. The guy has potential, but his execution, angles, and tackling are so bad.

[Darth Tater]

I believe Rogers and Campbell are FRA at years end, so no trade value for them.

Cooley for Jake Grove (C, Dolphins)- I like Davis enough 2 move Chris

Carter for Robert Gallery (OL, Raiders)-Move Rak to full time DE

Moss for David Baas (OG, 49ers)

Landry for Bob Sanders and a 5th- I know he cant stay healthy but #30 SUCKS so bad, I'll take a chance, #30 would fit there scheme near LOS

The OP is assuming uncapped, so, no Rogers and Campbell are not UFAs.

[hobbie8046]

Rogers can walk cause he's a free agent and Moss can be had for a 2nd rounder to the Phins, Ravens or Titans

I'm really getting sick of these "let's trade xxxx for a x pick" threads.

You would not get a 2nd round pick for Moss from any team in the NFL. Randy Moss was traded for a 4th round pick. He was coming off some bad times in Oakland, but he has more talent in his pinky finger than Santana has ever dreamed of having. We would not get a 2nd for him. We could not trade Landry. We could not trade Rogers. Nobody would take them. There are comparable players that show up in FA pools every year that teams can grab without sacrificing draft picks.

I'm also sick of this trade Cooley nonsense. What short memories Redskins fans have. He is the man. Having two pass catching TEs is a luxury; it is something we should savor and build our offense around, not something we should squander away for a 2nd round pick that would probably be used on another TE (knowing the Redskins).

[GibbsFactor]

I don't see how we can lose Rogers AND Landry. One of them will do, preferably Landry.

I'd hate to trade Campbell unless we can get a high two for him.

[RaspberryRumble]

I don't want to trade Cooley. I know Fred Davis has proven he can play, but we should keep both of them. We can line up in two TE sets and really keep teams off their guard by being able to run and pass with two very good TE's on the field at the same time. Run TE screens and keep them guessing which one will get it.

[Probos]

I am ok with trading Cooley for a 2nd and maybe rogers but for a 3rd..BUT NO WAY IM trading landry for a 4th or Moss..

I'd take anything I can get for Landry. What a waste of a 1st round pick.

[DiscoBob]

There are exactly 31 teams that would offer a 4th rounder for Landry, and probably about 15 that would offer a 3rd rounder. I think you are way underestimating his trade value (which happens here after every loss).

[DiscoBob]

I'd take anything I can get for Landry. What a waste of a 1st round pick.

And that is exactly why the team gets fleeced in trades - near sighted decision making...