Hooper Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 If Sanchez is there at 13, I wouldn't go nuts if the Skins took him. I want JC to succeed -- easy kid to root for -- but he seems to have the same problems no matter the system. But spending two firsts on a rookie qb with one year of starts is an unbelievable roll of the dice. Especially when you could have got someone like Matt Cassel for a second. I mean, Alex Smith and countless others were supposed to be great too. Seriously, trading three first round picks for Cutler would make more sense -- at least you know he can excel in the NFL. And what happens if the Skins do end up with Sanchez? Do they dump Campbell for a fifth round pick or something, then start, I don't know, Collins? If they don't dump JC and he starts, I imagine Collins would be the odd man out with Colt and Sanchez behind him. Or maybe Colt is the odd man out -- judging by their recent actions, clearly the team doesn't see him as a future star. Call it a hunch, but I think Snyder trades JC if he gets Sanchez just so he doesn't have to deal with the small possibility of JC having a great year and making him like a fool. But who knows? Another interesting off-season, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 And what do you think the first thing a good GM would do: upgrade at QB. Yah!?No, upgrade the lines. Look at how Gibbs dynasty was built. Look at how good blocking Joe Montana got. Larry Allen of the cowpukes. Look at how many probowl linemen the Pats had recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Look at how many probowl linemen the Pats had recently. And how many sacks did they give up last year? The QB can help make the line. Look at Arizona's inability (for the most part) to consistently run block. Or Pitt's struggles. You won't get HoFers at every line position anymore. We have Carter and Haynesworth on D-line and some good rotational dudes. We DO need help on Offensive line but some teams have the LUXURY of building lines first because they already somehow got their QB. Also, Baltimore's line wasn't that good previously but they had to be given time to work together and develop cohesion. So, YES, build the lines but don't do so because you think the line itself is going to win you a SB. QB matters more than whether you are 15 or 10th best offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins:Victory_or_Death Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 If only that could happen....if only.:helmet:I know this guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnb123 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 The comparisons between the modern NFL and all of our 80's-90's teams need to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 And how many sacks did they give up last year?The QB can help make the line. Look at Arizona's inability (for the most part) to consistently run block. Or Pitt's struggles. You won't get HoFers at every line position anymore. We have Carter and Haynesworth on D-line and some good rotational dudes. We DO need help on Offensive line but some teams have the LUXURY of building lines first because they already somehow got their QB. Also, Baltimore's line wasn't that good previously but they had to be given time to work together and develop cohesion. So, YES, build the lines but don't do so because you think the line itself is going to win you a SB. QB matters more than whether you are 15 or 10th best offensive line. Ghost, that's my point. When the Pats were good, they went *almost* 19-0. They got just a little older, Brady then Cassel started taking hits, they aren't world beaters now.Warner, not a scrambler, needed a good o-line to throw anything long. Big Ben holds the ball a long time, and makes it work, and considering the Steelers lost Parker awhile and didn't miss a step, I'd say Pitt's run blocking is severely underrated. The only problem I have with Hayneworth is the $, unless the cap goes away and Danny can pay all of our good players like that. I hope Carter, Monty, and Co. improve, 'cause one man does not a pass rush make. Lines win SBs, period. We became dominant in the 80's with a guy who got on our team as a punt returner. Young and Aikman didn't get their rings by scrambling or dink-and-dunk, they got them by taking advantage of good blocking. In the last Superbowl, the better QB didn't win. QB is the most important single position on the field, but the O-Line is more important than the QB. I'd argue the D Line ought to be ranked about as high. edit- Well maybe Young did, but the Niners had a good Oline then too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 The comparisons between the modern NFL and all of our 80's-90's teams need to stop.Aw, c'mon, they're the fondest memories of the Skins I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titus3 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Vinnie needs one more year to prove himself: - He's been through 4 different coaches in the past 10 years - This is only his second year as a full-time starting GM - He needs the qb, coach, wr, etc...to step-up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcarey032 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Exactly. He wants to win. But the big problem is he wants to win his way with his guys. And the truth is he just doesn't seem to get the NFL yet. Perfectly stated. Every time they whip out those Lombardi trophies, they should be looking and thinking the offensive line was probably the biggest contributing factor as to why we have those three. Until he realizes that, it won't happen here. I would just hope that he would sell the team and give someone else a shot because he has only won one division title since taking the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Uh, even in 2005 when our line was pretty good (though Thomas got hurt) it didn't matter. Because of QB play. You really think there aren't other good offensive lines out there that don't win championships? Hell, the Eagles O-Line has been up and down but with Westy and McNabb (and at one point TO) it was not as big an issue. Not that the line was BAD but it was sometimes mediocre like ours. The reason the Eagles haven't won a SB (just one) has probably because they never had a TO for McNabb to go to year-in/out. Give McNabb a Santana Moss going deep or getting passes in stride across the field? *shudder* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 The more I think back, the Redskins of today are reminding me of the Bullets of my childhood. I get the feeling that Danny is more concerned with loyalty to Vinny than to building a successful franchise. I get the impression that he wants us to win, but isn't willing to do the work necessary. Its kinda like he's more in search of finding the names the fans will get excited about ala, Wes Unseld, Michael Adams, Tom Gugliotta, Chris Webber, and Jawian Howard than to building a consistent franchise. I think its a bit of the opposite extreme though cause back then the word was that Abe didn't want to spend. The word on Snyder is that he's willing to spend too much and thinks that all it takes is a fat check to solve all our problems. Thinking Skins I agree with you. Remember during the Bullets years how loyal Abe was to Wes Unseld and yet Wes could not get the job done as General Manager at all. Snyder is loyal to a fault to Vinny and they both think they know a lot about football. They can talk a good game but they can't pick the right talent to go on the field. Our fans and our players deserve a professional General Manager. Look at the NY Giants. They got George Young and when George retired he had mentored his replacement. The Skins had Beathard and Beathard mentored Casserly and the day Casserly left all semblances of professional management walked out the door with him. What came in the door? Well we all know what we got from that point on!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECU-ALUM Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 I know this guy... All-right get Papashango on the phone let's give it a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newera Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Vinny and Danny know it starts with a quartrback. They will continue to try unil they get it right -- and that's obtaining a "franchise quarterback." Eventually they will. He may even already be on the team. Hint . . . hint. They will then build around that guy and the west coast offense for the next ten years. (See Shanahan if Zorn does not work out). Bank on that with the Vinny's relationship with Mike. Unil then, this organization will continue to be hit or miss. When you have the quarterback in place, drafting around him because easy both offensively and defensively. See Patriots, Colts, Eagles, Giants, Steelers, and now Atlanta. See why the inconsistent Bears went after Cutler. Average quarterback play was killing them from being a consistent elite team. Plus, Jason is not 'truly' coveted around the NFL and this is after four years. He's okay. He's average. He has limitations. Probably seen more as a solid back up then a perenial pro bowler. Too many things have to be in place for him and your team to succeed. Danny and Vinny don't feel secure having to 'count on him' and are looking for more insurance. With the way Vinny and Danny operate as general managers they are probably more dependent on having a "Franchise Quarterback" then your average 'normal' GM. Here's the tally the last seven years -- Tony Banks, Shane Mathews, Danny W., Patrick Ramsey, Brunnell, Campbell, Collins -- and that is since 2002. That's crazy. In fact, the Redskins have easily had more different quarterbacks start for them the last eighteen years then any team in the league I can think of. It has to stop. Plus, when you get that quarteback "Danny and Vinny Know" it can set you up for the next ten years. To me Sanchez does seem to be better suited for the west coast offense then Jason. And, appears to have a higher upside for the west coast offense. I think if they don't get Sanchez, then Colt will be the alternative if Jason falters. I do think they are trying to force fit Jason into an offense that does not realy suit his skill set, and that is not Jason's fault. Danny's tryng. Geez, he brought back Gibbs who opted out early after taking us to the playoffs two out of four years. We got Haynesworth. We need a quarterback that is the Shizzle. It will be either Sanchez, Tebo, McCoy, Bradford, or Brennan. And probably the least likey, Campbell. That's per management, with their behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCDiesel44 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 If only this franchise had a GM, a smart and wise GM that knew how to use and judge talent. The things we'd see, the places we'd go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Vinny and Danny know it starts with a quartrback. They will continue to try unil they get ... a "franchise quarterback." Eventually they will. He may even already be on the team. /Great post Newera .... I take back all those terrible things I said about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 The only thing I want to see is a stable team, stable environment, just some consistency, us fans don't know what we are going to get one year to the next, hell we could go 5-11 this year, or 11-5 WTF lol. Regardless after this year, 3 guys will either be gone, or they will stay, those three guys are Zorn, Jason, Vinny. If you happen to be a guy who wants those guys gone, you should hope we don't play well this season, I happen to be one of those guys, but I still would love to see my Skins win, being a constant laughing stock of the league aint cool at all. So cheers to another season, hopefully the Skins finally live up to their potential GO SKINS!!!!!!!! I go back and forth on this. I do want stability, but do I want to be stable like we ere in Washington in the 90's? With a coach we know can't take us all the way, and a GM who either can't make good draft picks or who can't convince the owner to stop letting the head coach to make bad choices? That was a stable team, but it was always hovering around the .500 record. Even with Gibbs, many of us felt that we weren't going to go anywhere with Gibbs 2.0. He took us to the playoffs twice (and maybe we actually could have won something if not for injuries), but we lost both times. Compare this to the Wizards of 2 years back. We were the new Minnesota Timberwolves, the team that would always compete for a playoff spot, and maybe get in, but never really be a threat to win it all. We need direction, and without direction people will think we're running in a million different directions because their own thoughts will take them in a million different directions. Snyder says he's learned patience. I hope so. But I'd like to see that patience balanced with a bit of the vigor he's shown in the past. I don't think its a mistake to go after a QB or a WR or any of these moves that Snyder's done in the past when looked at individually. But when one team, or one guy develops a history of doing these types of movesit really becomes a situation where the chaotic crazy move becomes the expected and the simple patient thing becomes the impossible. And so now as a fan I find myself dreaming for the impossible. Not that we don't make a Cutler or a Sanchez or even a Colt move. But even if we make such a move and it works, that we're able to be patient enough to let it develop. No team will ever be perfect. Even super bowl champs have their flaws. But part of being a winning team is knowing that we have the talent to overcome those flaws. So then we don't scream fire at the first spark of a flame. We just patiently grab the fire extinguisher and keep things moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted April 19, 2009 Author Share Posted April 19, 2009 Danny's tryng. Geez, he brought back Gibbs who opted out early after taking us to the playoffs two out of four years. We got Haynesworth. We need a quarterback that is the Shizzle. It will be either Sanchez, Tebo, McCoy, Bradford, or Brennan. But he reminds me of a kid taking a test, but who's so unsure of himself that he keeps erasing his answers and writing new ones in there. Yeah, he's trying but eventually he's got to learn to fill out a test and wait for the results. He seems to be expecting immediate returns on his investments. I know he got to being a billionare by getting this in the past, but this isn't always what happens in the rest of the world. Sometimes we've got to plant a seed and sit back and watch it grow, and instead of just ripping it apart from the roots, maybe it needs to be watered, or fertilized, or have the weeds picked from around it that are choking the life out of it. This is how the fans, or at least this fan, is judging Snyder. I have no problem with his will to spend, I actually appreciate it. But I despise that he thinks thats the solution to EVERY problem. It seems though that he has learned some things from Gibbs. I was happy to hear about the workout clauses in contracts to get players to attend voluntary workouts. That helps build chemistry. But the same way that helps build chemistry, things like a QB controversy or consistant coaching changes are things that help to destroy chemistry. We don't need half the locker room cheering behind one guy and half behind the other. And when Snyder does things like this, its what makes fans think that he doesn't care about the team or the chemistry on the team, but that he just wants to play with his new toy and show it off to the other owners and rob the fans of their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 GM's around the league are saying this isn't a great QB class and Sanchez is the biggest risk because he's only started 16 games. To get him, we would probably have to use next year's first as well. I just don't know, fellas. Seems like a massive risk. For one thing, if we spend two firsts on a qb who is at least a year from playing, where do we find our right tackle and another d-end? The "front office" has clearly fooled itself into thinking it can survive another year with the same offensive line and a d-line with only one quality d-end. Seems like a recipe for disaster to me. Does anyone trust the Jansen/Heyer combo? Do Wynn and Daniels scare anyone? I mean, we're talking about a whole season here, folks. Not just a couple games. We have to rebuild both lines. It's going to take some time, but the sooner we start, the quicker it will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 you really think cerrato is a good gm???? The original post defending Vinny and blaming JC was probably made by Snyder The Jerk himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeThreeKingsRuleU Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Yea ... but I love the ballsy move they made to get Eli ... he will torment the Skins for the next 10 years unless they also grow balls to obtain a tormentor at QB and even the palying field.:gaintsuck We'll see how well Eli does when he can't toss up a lob to Plaxico in the corner of the end zone for an easy score. to further prove my point: with Plaxico = Super bowl. Plaxico shoots himself in the leg, Giants shoot themselves in the foot = no super bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardSkinz Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Heck we all know that! We have a QB... we need a GM who has "it".... Oh please! We don't have a QB or GM that has "it" or gets it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 JC and vinny both share the blame. Anyone who thinks that JC played well last season are lying to themselves. Vinny hasn't drafted well along the lines since he's been here which further restricts JC. Blame em both and if they both don't produce this season, then FIRE THEM!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Vinny and Danny know it starts with a quartrback. They will continue to try unil they get it right -- and that's obtaining a "franchise quarterback." Eventually they will. He may even already be on the team. Hint . . . hint. They will then build around that guy and the west coast offense for the next ten years. (See Shanahan if Zorn does not work out). Bank on that with the Vinny's relationship with Mike. Unil then, this organization will continue to be hit or miss. When you have the quarterback in place, drafting around him because easy both offensively and defensively. See Patriots, Colts, Eagles, Giants, Steelers, and now Atlanta. See why the inconsistent Bears went after Cutler. Average quarterback play was killing them from being a consistent elite team. Plus, Jason is not 'truly' coveted around the NFL and this is after four years. He's okay. He's average. He has limitations. Probably seen more as a solid back up then a perenial pro bowler. Too many things have to be in place for him and your team to succeed. Danny and Vinny don't feel secure having to 'count on him' and are looking for more insurance. With the way Vinny and Danny operate as general managers they are probably more dependent on having a "Franchise Quarterback" then your average 'normal' GM. Here's the tally the last seven years -- Tony Banks, Shane Mathews, Danny W., Patrick Ramsey, Brunnell, Campbell, Collins -- and that is since 2002. That's crazy. In fact, the Redskins have easily had more different quarterbacks start for them the last eighteen years then any team in the league I can think of. It has to stop. Plus, when you get that quarteback "Danny and Vinny Know" it can set you up for the next ten years. To me Sanchez does seem to be better suited for the west coast offense then Jason. And, appears to have a higher upside for the west coast offense. I think if they don't get Sanchez, then Colt will be the alternative if Jason falters. I do think they are trying to force fit Jason into an offense that does not realy suit his skill set, and that is not Jason's fault. Danny's tryng. Geez, he brought back Gibbs who opted out early after taking us to the playoffs two out of four years. We got Haynesworth. We need a quarterback that is the Shizzle. It will be either Sanchez, Tebo, McCoy, Bradford, or Brennan. And probably the least likey, Campbell. That's per management, with their behavior. How we will know when we have a franchise QB, if we can't protect him in the pocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Full Monty Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 When word emerged this year that Scott Pioli was considering leaving the Patriots, if Snyder had any kind of brain he would've thrown a fortune at Pioli to come here instead of Kansas City. Watch KC emerge to be a big-time threat within 2 years, especially in that division. By Year 3 they'll probably be perennial playoff contenders. Will we? Open question. But I have more faith in Pioli than with Vinny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapitalDefense Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 http://hamptonroads.com/2009/04/redskins-need-address-gm-not-qb-woesClick link for entire article Redskins need to address GM - not QB - woes The Virginian-Pilot © April 18, 2009 At it again: You may have heard that the Redskins, who have the 13th pick in next weekend's draft, are smitten by USC quarterback Mark Sanchez and could try to trade up to gain his services. The news comes about a week after owner Dan Snyder met with Jason Campbell to offer a vote of confidence - Snyder's peculiar way of showing his support, I suppose. More of same Snyder thought he found his franchise quarterback in Campbell, and before that, in Patrick Ramsey. Now he may be trying for the trifecta at a time when the team could use the draft to fill other needs. To the point The Skins' real first need? An actual general manager. This thread needs to be bumped every single day until he hires one, ok I will start today....bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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