VA Pilot: Redskins need to address GM - not QB - woes

[nonniey]

you really think cerrato is a good gm????

Do you really think Cerroto is the GM?

[Evilskinzfan47]

#1 Vinny is a lot smarter than anyone on this board.

#2 All you internet / board warriors honestly don't have the fortitude to do or accomplish what Vinny or Snyder has done.

I don't understand all the hate for Vinny and Snyder. They certainly know a lot more than anyone here. They are both self-made men. Become a billionaire and then complain with your wallet, until then people need to STFU about Vinny and Snyder.

All things considered and with the climate of the NFL as it is today, I think they are doing a fine job.

EDIT: They are certainly a lot smarter than the damn Press that covers them.

Hey Vinny, dont you have better things to do then trying to defend yourself on a mssg board?Maybe like packing your bags and gettin lost????Just a suggestion Vinny.

[That Redskins Fan]

Do you really think Cerroto is the GM?

No sir ,

I surely do not he is a figurehead for snyder...

[CrypticVillain]

#1 Vinny is a lot smarter than anyone on this board.

I agree with this, but damn. How many chances is he going to get? We had a golden opportunity in 2006 to be a "serious" SB contender. But we got rid of key players, ie Clark. And brought in some bums like Archulattea (I don't care if I spelled it wrong) If we don't win a SB in the next two years he needs to go ASAP.

[aREDSKIN]

#1 Vinny is a lot smarter than anyone on this board.

#2 All you internet / board warriors honestly don't have the fortitude to do or accomplish what Vinny or Snyder has done.

I don't understand all the hate for Vinny and Snyder. They certainly know a lot more than anyone here. They are both self-made men. Become a billionaire and then complain with your wallet, until then people need to STFU about Vinny and Snyder.

All things considered and with the climate of the NFL as it is today, I think they are doing a fine job.

EDIT: They are certainly a lot smarter than the damn Press that covers them.

How then do you explain the product they have put on the field the last 11 years??

[Buck812]

Yea ... but I love the ballsy move they made to get Eli ... he will torment the Skins for the next 10 years unless they also grow balls to obtain a tormentor at QB and even the palying field.

:gaintsuck

Strangely enough, they traded what turned out to be a better QB and a 1st rd draft pick to get him. Sounds like what we should do to huh?

Btw that other 1st rd pick turn out to be Shawne Merriman. So on one hand you have Eli Manning and on the other you have Philip Rivers and Shawne Merriman..... lol

[robotfire]

I don't understand all the hate for Vinny and Snyder. They certainly know a lot more than anyone here. They are both self-made men. Become a billionaire and then complain with your wallet, until then people need to STFU about Vinny and Snyder.

Snyder made his fortune by luck and buying other successful things. Now, the only thing that really makes him money is the Redskins. Everything else he's got is a failure. And the Redskins would be a failure, too, if fans like us weren't so loyal.

So tell me, what has Snyder actually accomplished?

[Travdaskin]

The only thing I want to see is a stable team, stable environment, just some consistency, us fans don't know what we are going to get one year to the next, hell we could go 5-11 this year, or 11-5 WTF lol. Regardless after this year, 3 guys will either be gone, or they will stay, those three guys are Zorn, Jason, Vinny. If you happen to be a guy who wants those guys gone, you should hope we don't play well this season, I happen to be one of those guys, but I still would love to see my Skins win, being a constant laughing stock of the league aint cool at all. So cheers to another season, hopefully the Skins finally live up to their potential GO SKINS!!!!!!!!

[FightingIrishman]

Snyder made his fortune by luck and buying other successful things. Now, the only thing that really makes him money is the Redskins. Everything else he's got is a failure. And the Redskins would be a failure, too, if fans like us weren't so loyal.

So tell me, what has Snyder actually accomplished?

This statement is just plain foolish. :doh:

[TC4]

My biggest fear is that Snyder will indeed finally get rid of Cerrato, only to pull a "Jerry Jones" and name HIMSELF as the Redskins GM :doh:

[mnb123]

Strangely enough, they traded what turned out to be a better QB and a 1st rd draft pick to get him. Sounds like what we should do to huh?

Btw that other 1st rd pick turn out to be Shawne Merriman. So on one hand you have Eli Manning and on the other you have Philip Rivers and Shawne Merriman..... lol

Rings:

Giants-1

Chargers-0

You can't say that if they didn't make that trade and had Rivers under center that they would have won it all. It worked out for them. They have one of the best D's in the league without Merriman.

[ECU-ALUM]

With the exception of the 1 year he was gone what has been the only constant....Vinny & Dan running the show.

And what has this franchise done during that time...3 playoff apperances...1 under Norv (Vinny & Dan came in a little too late to do anything to that team) and 2 under Gibbs...outside of that...not much.

We are entering the 10th year of Snyder's regime...when we were entering the 10th year of Jack Kent Cooke's regime we had a Super Bowl title and we were set up for a run as one of the real powerhouses in the NFL for at least another 10 years...can this current regime make that same claim?

[McD5]

#1 Vinny is a lot smarter than anyone on this board.

#2 All you internet / board warriors honestly don't have the fortitude to do or accomplish what Vinny or Snyder has done.

I don't understand all the hate for Vinny and Snyder. They certainly know a lot more than anyone here. They are both self-made men. Become a billionaire and then complain with your wallet, until then people need to STFU about Vinny and Snyder.

All things considered and with the climate of the NFL as it is today, I think they are doing a fine job.

EDIT: They are certainly a lot smarter than the damn Press that covers them.

Art? Still acting like Dan knows more about football than almost anyone on earth?

[Buck812]

Rings:

Giants-1

Chargers-0

You can't say that if they didn't make that trade and had Rivers under center that they would have won it all. It worked out for them. They have one of the best D's in the league without Merriman.

Yeah but you have to admit that those rings were because other great moves they made. The Eli trade was a loss for the Giants and Im glad they made it. No way does anyone in their mind trade Rivers and Merriman for Eli.... No way!

[ohioskins]

you really think cerrato is a good gm????

I think old bug eyes is the fall guy. Snyder gets to do what he wants, and Vinny gets the blame. I find it hard to believe that all these poor decisions year after year are Vinny's alone. With that said, Vinny is not a good GM if these decisions are truely his.

[RedskinWill]

based on what? Vinny can't do my job, but I'm willing to bet I could do his job.

You're right, I don't have the money to buy a team.

How about I just continue to offer my opinion on how well they're doing on building this team. Thats their job and we're their performance evaluators. And guess what - they're not getting the job done!

Holla back when their resume includes a SB trophy, or a SB appearance or a conference title apprerance, or a winning playoff record. Show me something more than two division round losses, a wild card loss, and a number of seasons where we didn't even make the postseason.

So if you don't like hearing Redskins fans criticize Vinny and Dan, you can go watch lifetime. We'll be here talking football.

LOL, LMAO that's the same thing I tell my wife.

[Ghost of]

How then do you explain the product they have put on the field the last 11 years??

Brunell is on Gibbs, man. So is Campbell. Hell, not giving Ramsey 2005 is also on Gibbs.

Trading picks is just as much on Gibbs as it is in Vinny or Snyder.

If anything, based on who Snyder wanted (moss, holmes and some other interesting prospects) at the time they were originally drafted, I'd have to say he has a better eye for talent than a lot of people in football (and on this board.)

How many people were on board the Moss trade? Meanwhile Snyder wanted him more than Gardner. Whose fault is what? Even with Taylor Jacobs is that a Vinny move or was Vinny giving Spurrier what he wanted (aside from Ramsey?)

Clark/ARchuleta is also more on Gregg Williams than on Snyder or Cerrato.

I think Cerrato and Snyder have become a tandem bete noire and the reality is that, while imperfect, they have had as much success as teams with traditional "perceived" normal FO structures. Not as much as we would like but I'd argue that if we had been able to keep Trent Green, much of this nonsense would have been rendered moot. We would have built around him and really turned this team around.

Let us not forget that the playoff trips and wins we HAVE had have not occurred until Snyder took ownership.

[Hooper]

Gotta disagree with you, Ghost.

For one thing, no matter who has been coach, as long as Snyder and Cerrato have been involved, the defensive line has been completely ignored in the first day of the draft. I could be wrong, but I believe we've taken something like two d-linemen in the first three rounds in something like ten years. That's insanity. To a lesser but still crazy extent, the front office has done the same with the offensive line. Right now, we literally don't have a starting caliber right tackle on the roster. We have one d-end. If you believe the rumors -- which I am trying not to -- we are going to pass on a right tackle or d-end so we can roll the dice on Sanchez. Spend two first round picks on him. That is nuts. I watched every USC game and the kid is a complete crapshoot. Hell, how many qbs drafted in the first round pan out? 1 in 4 at best? And almost of them started for at least three years in college.

And we can't ignore the insane trades other teams saved Snyder from making.

Two first rounds pick for Chad Johnson.

A first and more for Lance Briggs.

Hell, the Jason Taylor trade looks like a bigger disaster by the day. For God sakes, the Chiefs got Cassel -- who would be a perfect fit for Zorn's offense -- for a second round pick. We traded a second and more for a d-end who showed nothing even when he was healthy.

Snyder's willingness to spend money -- and to blow it -- covers up some of his mistakes. But man oh man, if we had anything close to a real front office with a real plan and philosophy, I think we would be great.

[Ghost of]

Hoop,

I agree with you that we could benefit from a stronger direction or consistent FO approach. And that we shouldn't be so terrified of drafting a first round DLineman.

I guess my point is that Snyder/Cerrato are a mixed bag. I think some of the bad moves are not properly attributed to them and possibly some of the good ones (or ones almost made) were attributable to them. I wonder if Snyder/Cerrato loved Campbell or was it Gibbs that overruled them? When you look at "highlights" of Campbell and then you watch Sanchez, it's ABSURD how much better before even PASSING the ball that Sanchez looks. Would Clark have gone if WIlliams didn't think Arch was someone to bring in?

I don't know, perhaps I'm wrong on some of these, I just feel like the reason we aren't where we want to be is QB and/or arrogance/incompetence from our offensive coaches. Even with all of ours problems, there were games to be WON that we lost because we

1) Didn't play to win (Gibbs cost us how many with that?)

2) Stuck too long with failures at QB. Collins may very well have given us some homefield advantage in the playoffs! In 2005, we stuck with Brunell even after he was hurt and back to being awful.

3) Didn't give enough leeway to Saunders to do his thing and make his choice at QB since it TURNS OUT HIS CHOICE WAS SUPERIOR to the old Brunell and the young Campbell.

I really feel like a lot has been lost here at QB and at offensive coaching (not Saunders, IMO, I think that was actually a move that saved our running game and gave Portis a bit more room to maneuver.)

Make some different choices there and we're looking at different draft choices, etc.

Did Williams want Rogers? Maybe his "secondary-LB-DLine" attitude affected us NOT picking Ware or Merriman? I don't know.

I just see it all as a big mess from which it's difficult to disentangle the threads of truth from media creation and just plain ol' fanbase frustration.

If Sanchez is a Matt Ryan Pt 2 (or Colt is lol) then the entire mood surrounding the team changes.

[Hooper]

Great post, Ghost. Agree with a lot of what you said. Especially the Collins-Saunders stuff. What's interesting about that is how adamant Snyder was in going with Campbell last year during the interview process. A big reason Zorn got the job was he promised Snyder Campbell would start -- other coaches wouldn't agree to this; Williams told Snyder Collins should be the starter. Heck, he thought so much of Collins he tried to get him to come to Jax.

And now Danny wants anyone but Campbell it seems. I'm not a big believer in JC, but man, no one changes their mind faster or falls in love with shiny new toys more than Snyder. And that's why I fear we will always struggle to win on a consistent basis if he is heavily involved in football decisions.

[LD0506]

Damn, I stop by the nuthut and find that a genuine football conversation broke out? Wotta concept :thumbsup:

Seriously, nice back n forth guys, this is the kind of thread that I look for.

So should our big offseason move have been giving Pioli Haynesworth's money?

[ECU-ALUM]

Damn, I stop by the nuthut and find that a genuine football conversation broke out? Wotta concept :thumbsup:

Seriously, nice back n forth guys, this is the kind of thread that I look for.

So should our big offseason move have been giving Pioli Haynesworth's money?

I gotta admit Ghost & Hooper did a text-book give and take that never got ugly or personal...outstanding job!

To answer your question...I wouldn't have been upset if we had given Pioli the money to come here. Not in the least!

[stickyshooZ]

I wish JKC would rise from the grave and re-take this franchise. At least he knew how to let his coaches and staff do their job.

[ECU-ALUM]

I wish JKC would rise from the grave and re-take this franchise. At least he knew how to let his coaches and staff do their job.

If only that could happen....if only.:helmet:

[Ghost of]

Damn, I stop by the nuthut and find that a genuine football conversation broke out? Wotta concept :thumbsup:

Seriously, nice back n forth guys, this is the kind of thread that I look for.

So should our big offseason move have been giving Pioli Haynesworth's money?

Thanks LD and ECU.

It helps when you've been on the same side as someone on a few things to continue amiable discussion

As for Pioli, I would have no problem (knew it wasn't going to happen but would have liked it) with that move. Not necessarily not bringing in Haynesworth because it may turn out that Albert really does change the entire defense. I was surprise that we paid him but I'm not distraught over the move.

For my part, I think QB is so important that I'm willing to tolerate almost any move (not 4 #1s or anything absurd like that) to move up for Sanchez. I'd also be interested in getting Hass from Seattle if we can grab him IF that were to happen.

Once we get some stable QUALITY play at that spot, I think you'll find the direction solidify. I'm not pleased with the defense line prospects in this draft and haven't been for a couple of years. If we decide the price is too high for Sanchez, then let's see about OT if one falls or if somehow Curry falls (LOL) then we can look at him.

With our third pick, I'd definitely pick up Caldwell if he's available.

Running a team means constantly replacing parts ONE STEP AHEAD of the actual need, I think. To me, that's one reason you bring in another QB too. In case Jason does not perform, you no longer have to spend a pick (or picks to trade up) but you have someone with some ability who can step in. But I wouldn't argue with getting an OT, C with our first two picks.