Pro - Jason Campbell won't ever get it done in Washington

[CHUBAKAH]

I saw the thread pro Cutler, and an anti Cutler.

How about a thread about mixed feeling on that choice, however you feel Jason Campbell will never get it done in Washington?

I was a HUGE advocate of removing Brunell from the helm, and making Jason the starter. I mean what could it have hurt, he couldn't have been any worse right?

Two years later I'll say why he hasn't been any worse than Brunell was, it hasn't been much of an improvement. He still makes the same mistakes over and over again, and seems to constantly miss the open receiver from staring at covered guys. Holds the ball too long. Fumbles the ball a lot from hits, etc. etc...

Sure, the O line was in shambles last season, and the WR's didn't give him much help either, but do you think Jason even has the tools to be a HOF QB in this league?

I'm on the fence, but leaning towards change.

I also feel Colt is not the answer.

Thoughts?

No flaming allowed!

:evilg:<-advocate

[Skins PR]

Can I get this post in before the thread is closed........

[Skins PR]

YES!!!!!!!!

You'd be surprised how many times I've tried to do that and it didn't go through because it had already been shut down.

[CHUBAKAH]

Can I get this post in before the thread is closed........

I'd like to think I've earned a little more respect around here than that.

[TK]

Can I get this post in before the thread is closed........

YES!!!!!!!!

You'd be surprised how many times I've tried to do that and it didn't go through because it had already been shut down.

Hi there.

[Skins PR]

Hi there.

Hi.

[MattFancy]

What do you mean by "get it done"? I think Campbell can be an average QB who won't kill you with turnovers, but I don't think he will lead a bunch of 4th quarter comebacks either. I see him as a Daivd Garrard type QB.

In 2007 when the Jags had that great year, alot of things went right for the Jags. Their defense was one of the tops in the league and they had a dominant rushing attack. In 2008, the Jags' defense wasn't as good and they had injuries to their line and Garrard struggled. Look at Campbell, when we started 6-2 everything was going right for this team, when a few things started to slip up Campbell's play dropped and we finished 2-6.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that we need a QB that can perform even if things aren't going perfectly around him. I think Cutler could be that QB. The Broncos defense was horrible last year and they went through 5 or 6 RBs and Cutler still threw for over 4500 yards and had 25 TDs. Things weren't perfect for the Broncos last year and Cutler still produced a great season. I just feel that if Campbell is going to succeed here, he needs great offensive line play and great play out of Moss, Cooley, ARE, and Portis. Those things don't happen all the time.

[zoony]

I haven't seen anything from Campbell to indicate that he can be successful at the QB position during his time in the league.

Of course, there's always the guys that seem to 'get it' magically later in their careers. Holding out hope that this will happen to Campbell is the only thing keeping me going.

And no, it's not the Oline. He can't even make plays when he does have protection. QB Pressure is part of the game of football. Good QB's perform with their backs against the wall. Bad QB's fold. Which has Campbell been?

He has shown an inability to read a defense. An inability to get rid of the ball quickly. And an inability to see the play before it develops. He's tentative and he's run out of excuses.

Though legions of Redskins fans continue to make them for him. "It's a new system!" "He doesn't have time" "he doesn't have any weapons" :blahblah:

None of that seemed to bother Drew Brees when he showed up in NO. But Brees is a good QB.

[Skins PR]

Not trying to be smart or get banned...

Like I said, I've tried to post that several times and the thread has always been closed when I have. Didn't read who the OP was, just saw that there were 20 Cutler threads out there and several that were identical to this one and figured it was a sure candidate for closure.

The "Hi" post... I just thought that would be funny since noone ever says "Hi" back. I'm more polite than that.

[TK]

I'd like to think I've earned a little more respect around here than that.

You have mi amigo.

Like you, I wanted JC in because Brunell was done physically.

Unlike you, I would like to Colt get a shot just to actually see what he has/can do against a few first string defenses. Sidearm or not, I've liked what little I saw of him in preseason last year. He made drives & scored TDs.

BUT I like what Cutler brings to the table. He's like a proven version of what Colt's potential could be. I think that's the best way I can describe it.

[LD0506]

I'd like to think I've earned a little more respect around here than that.

I would think so too.

I don't know that JC will ever be mentioned in the same category as a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but I do still believe he could "succeed" here in the same way that a Rypien did. I very distinctly recall a lot of the same comments made about MR way back when, that he would never "get" it, he didn't have "it", yadda yadda yadda.....

I don't know whether it is just an infatuation with playing Madden or what but far too many people think you can just plug any player in and automatically get the same results. It doesn't work that way and it is inane to even have to make that point to anyone, kind of like having to show someone that water is wet.

Jason's future here will depend on a lot of factors, one of which is whether or not Coach Zorn can craft his gameplan to JC's strengths and not just try to pound the round peg in the square hole. Campbell has some genuine strengths as our QB and given the opportunity to utilize them he could be solid for quite a while.

[HOF44]

I'd like to think I've earned a little more respect around here than that.

Word.

The thing is I believe Campbell has the personality to be a top QB. I believe he has the physical skill set to be a top QB. What I'm not sure about is if he can see and read the defenses well enough to be that top QB.

On the one hand I wonder if he will ever "get it". On the other I think of the instability he has faced since becoming a Redskin and wonder how much of an effect that's really had on him.

I think right now all things considered I'd lean toward keeping Campbell over getting Cutler. I'm not sure giving up the amount we would have to to get Cutler is worth it over trying to keep JC in the same system and seeing what we have.

Besides Denver always abuses us in trades. We'd give up more than necessary.

[Skins PR]

What do you mean by "get it done"? I think Campbell can be an average QB who won't kill you with turnovers, but I don't think he will lead a bunch of 4th quarter comebacks either. I see him as a Daivd Garrard type QB.

In 2007 when the Jags had that great year, alot of things went right for the Jags. Their defense was one of the tops in the league and they had a dominant rushing attack. In 2008, the Jags' defense wasn't as good and they had injuries to their line and Garrard struggled. Look at Campbell, when we started 6-2 everything was going right for this team, when a few things started to slip up Campbell's play dropped and we finished 2-6.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that we need a QB that can perform even if things aren't going perfectly around him. I think Cutler could be that QB. The Broncos defense was horrible last year and they went through 5 or 6 RBs and Cutler still threw for over 4500 yards and had 25 TDs. Things weren't perfect for the Broncos last year and Cutler still produced a great season. I just feel that if Campbell is going to succeed here, he needs great offensive line play and great play out of Moss, Cooley, ARE, and Portis. Those things don't happen all the time.

Either that or we need to strengthen everything around the guy we have now. Unfortunately with our FOs strategy of burning draft picks and signing as many big names as possible, it looks like the only way we will ever succeed on a consistent basis is by having a stud QB carry us to victory.

[jrockster21]

None of that seemed to bother Drew Brees when he showed up in NO. But Brees is a good QB.

Who didn't become a good QB until his 3rd year as a full-time starter.

Just sayin....

Drew's first 2 years as starter for SD (far from spectacular):

2003 San Diego Chargers 11 11 205 356 57.6 2,108 5.9 11 15 21 178 67.5 21 84 4.0 0 5 3

2002 San Diego Chargers 16 16 320 526 60.8 3,284 6.2 17 16 24 180 76.9 38 130 3.4 1 2 0

Then year 3, when he "got it:"

2004 San Diego Chargers 15 15 262 400 65.5 3,159 7.9 27 7 18 131 104.8 53 85 1.6 2 7 2

[Audible_Red40]

All i'm saying is if JC can manage a game and get us to the promise land, like a dilfer type "lead team", then I am for keeping him.

Reality is, I am more excited every hour about the possibility of Cutler coming to town. I just hope the price is not too steep.

[RocketCitySkins]

Jason's future here will depend on a lot of factors, one of which is whether or not Coach Zorn can craft his gameplan to JC's strengths and not just try to pound the round peg in the square hole. Campbell has some genuine strengths as our QB and given the opportunity to utilize them he could be solid for quite a while.

That's exactly what Al Borges did JC's senior year at Auburn and it worked. Unfortunately, I don't ever see that happening in the NFL and, for sure, not with Zorn who has repeatly said the problem is not his system but the execution.

[MattFancy]

Either that or we need to strengthen everything around the guy we have now. Unfortunately with our FOs strategy of burning draft picks and signing as many big names as possible, it looks like the only way we will ever succeed on a consistent basis is by having a stud QB carry us to victory.

Right, it doesn't seem like the FO is going to fix everything. Its not like Campbell is running out their with a bunch of nobodys. Moss, Cooley, and Portis have all been to the Pro Bowl and ARE played in the Super Bowl for the Steelers. Chris Samuels is one of the best LT in the game and we consistenly have a top 10 defense. What more can a QB ask for? I know our o-line isn't perfect, but its not THAT bad. When the Pats won those 3 Super Bowls, who were their WRs? Deion Branch, Troy Brown, David Patten, and David Givens. Have any of those guys done anything since they left the Pats? NO! Would you take any of those WRs right now over Moss or ARE? Maybe Patten over ARE but thats it. Campbell needs to be able to perform with what we have and he hasn't shown he can so far.

[Redskinjoe]

Positive Attributes to JC: Accurate on the full range of throws. Great deep ball. Tall and can see the entire field. Possesses the ability to run, combine this with his height and he is even more dangerous. Flexible, has the ability to move from system to system well. Hardly tosses the ball up for grabs.

Negative Attributes to JC: Locks on to reads too much and seldom looks off safeties. Receivers shoulder the full burden of splitting zones due to this. O-line must be perfect and allow time for receivers to get open.

I believe the Skins are trying to trade JC because he is unable to process the defense fast enough to do the intangibles. Every Coordinater that has coached him has had to shorten the field for him to minimize his "stare". Even when the running game was working very well the team did not perform that well on play action.

Sure some things were not helping. Shuffling the injuries on the O-Line, short smurfish WR's, Portis's injuries, etc. Other teams just figured it out. He never looks anyone off. Stay with your man, take away the deep ball, play the run strong, and force him to dink and dunk it. Once the Skins are scared to go deep, blitz!

JC is the prototypical Joe Gibbs QB. Great deep out and deep ball capability. Very few mistakes. I think JG saw Doug Williams in JC. I don't believe JC has the ability to function in the WC offense. It is too fast for him to deal.

The best team for JC is Tennessee. He's Kerry Collins part duex.

[Skins PR]

Right, it doesn't seem like the FO is going to fix everything. Its not like Campbell is running out their with a bunch of nobodys. Moss, Cooley, and Portis have all been to the Pro Bowl and ARE played in the Super Bowl for the Steelers. Chris Samuels is one of the best LT in the game and we consistenly have a top 10 defense. What more can a QB ask for? I know our o-line isn't perfect, but its not THAT bad. When the Pats won those 3 Super Bowls, who were their WRs? Deion Branch, Troy Brown, David Patten, and David Givens. Have any of those guys done anything since they left the Pats? NO! Would you take any of those WRs right now over Moss or ARE? Maybe Patten over ARE but thats it. Campbell needs to be able to perform with what we have and he hasn't shown he can so far.

Yes he did, at the beginning of last season. I'm not in love with JC but you've got to admit that a lot more fell apart last year than just him.

[zoony]

Who didn't become a good QB until his 3rd year as a full-time starter.

Just sayin....

Drew's first 2 years as starter for SD (far from spectacular):

2003 San Diego Chargers 11 11 205 356 57.6 2,108 5.9 11 15 21 178 67.5 21 84 4.0 0 5 3

2002 San Diego Chargers 16 16 320 526 60.8 3,284 6.2 17 16 24 180 76.9 38 130 3.4 1 2 0

Then year 3, when he "got it:"

2004 San Diego Chargers 15 15 262 400 65.5 3,159 7.9 27 7 18 131 104.8 53 85 1.6 2 7 2

Campbell finished his 3rd year, albeit not his third complete year. But factor in his seasons on the bench (Brees was thrown to the wolves) and I don't think its a good comparison.

[Taylor 36]

I haven't seen anything from Campbell to indicate that he can be successful at the QB position during his time in the league.

Of course, there's always the guys that seem to 'get it' magically later in their careers. Holding out hope that this will happen to Campbell is the only thing keeping me going.

And no, it's not the Oline. He can't even make plays when he does have protection. QB Pressure is part of the game of football. Good QB's perform with their backs against the wall. Bad QB's fold. Which has Campbell been?

He has shown an inability to read a defense. An inability to get rid of the ball quickly. And an inability to see the play before it develops. He's tentative and he's run out of excuses.

Though legions of Redskins fans continue to make them for him. "It's a new system!" "He doesn't have time" "he doesn't have any weapons" :blahblah:

None of that seemed to bother Drew Brees when he showed up in NO. But Brees is a good QB.

You have mi amigo.

Like you, I wanted JC in because Brunell was done physically.

Unlike you, I would like to Colt get a shot just to actually see what he has/can do against a few first string defenses. Sidearm or not, I've liked what little I saw of him in preseason last year. He made drives & scored TDs.

BUT I like what Cutler brings to the table. He's like a proven version of what Colt's potential could be. I think that's the best way I can describe it.

I know both of you are mods, and that this may appear to some to be a kiss ass post, but any one can go back and read any of my posts on the subject of JC and see that I am being honest and sincere.

Both of you, I feel, are 100% on the money. JC has been given more than adequate time to make a sound judgment on, yet still has not proven much of anything as far as being a leader and a QB that can/will take a team to greatness.

I would really like to see what we have in Colt. Giving him 36 starts, like JC, would only be fair. It would be nice to see what we actually have on our current roster. We know what JC and TC have to offer, but the kid hasn't been given a shot yet at all. Anyone who wants to knock Colt currently is completely out of line.

[DirtyGunz8]

I'm not in the bed with EITHER JC. Especially Cutler. Dude is a head case. Did you see his latest?

"I never wanted a trade"

Huh?!?!

I think it would be nice to see Campbell get to play out his contract. After all, he will most likely play his best ball this year, he's up for a new deal. Why waste draft choices on a QB when it's lack of an O line is the biggest problem. I can't understand why the offensive line is the 800 lbs gorilla in the room Dan and Vin want to ignore.

[MattFancy]

Yes he did, at the beginning of last season. I'm not in love with JC but you've got to admit that a lot more fell apart last year than just him.

Look at his numbers from the first 8 games, he only had 8 TDs, most of the offense was being run through Portis. Campbell played well don't get me wrong, but it's not like his numbers were through the roof either. Like I've said before, Campbell can be a good QB in this league. He won't kill you with turnovers, but he isn't going to win a whole lot of games leading 4th quarter comebacks either. We have a chance to get a gun slinging QB who isn't afraid to take chances. Cutler performed well last year with less to work with than JC.

[MattFancy]

Like you, I wanted JC in because Brunell was done physically.

Unlike you, I would like to Colt get a shot just to actually see what he has/can do against a few first string defenses. Sidearm or not, I've liked what little I saw of him in preseason last year. He made drives & scored TDs.

BUT I like what Cutler brings to the table. He's like a proven version of what Colt's potential could be. I think that's the best way I can describe it.

I agree 100%. I feel the same way. Campbell has had 36 games to show us what he is capable of and he hasn't shown much so far. I'd love to give Colt a shot because I think he could be a very good QB in the NFL. But when a guy like Cutler becomes avaliable, you almost have to see if you can get him. He's young and has shown he can produce in this league. We have to see what we can do to get him.

[addicted]

You have mi amigo.

Like you, I wanted JC in because Brunell was done physically.

Unlike you, I would like to Colt get a shot just to actually see what he has/can do against a few first string defenses. Sidearm or not, I've liked what little I saw of him in preseason last year. He made drives & scored TDs.

BUT I like what Cutler brings to the table. He's like a proven version of what Colt's potential could be. I think that's the best way I can describe it.

You discribed that perfectly, I agree with you