Classic example of Cerrato's ineptness

[Ernie5]

I'm with you regarding Jones. He clearly should have been on our radar and VC whiffed badly on that one.

Except that you don't know whether he was or was not on our radar. My guess: he was and Cerrato decided to go elsewhere. Let's give it another year before we start pronouncing whiffs.

Please.

[AKM311]

Why does the title say Vinny yet the entire post is about Snyder?

[galloprf]

That is a VERY false statement. Danny has made some stupid moves, but his dedication to winning is absolutely unquestionable. He's slowly learning how to make the right moves, taking two step forward and one back, but slowly making it. But he wants to win SO badly. He doesn't need to bring in these players with high price tags every year and eke out every last dime he can out of that cap. Did you see him after we beat Philly at their place? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o85N2piJPyM

I love how he wants to win. That's the best part about him besides his money.

Wrong! His dedication to making money and marketing are second to none. His dedication to putting a winning team on the field does not exist!

[galloprf]

Wrong! His dedication to making money and marketing are second to none. His dedication to putting a winning team on the field does not exist!

[Thinking Skins]

Wrong! His dedication to making money and marketing are second to none. His dedication to putting a winning team on the field does not exist!

You can't make your words look better by quoting yourself.

[Popeman38]

Blind hate. Last year, EVERYONE, and their mother, swore that the Skins needed playmakers to improve the offense. What do we do? We use 3 of the 10 draft picks we had on playmakers. Of course, arm-chairing the draft at the end of the season, we maybe should have drafted O & D line more. We have 5 picks this year. that makes 15 for the 2 years Vinny has been in charge. 5 years ago, if you were given the option of having 15 picks over 2 years, you would have been salivating. If you had been told we could have the highest rated WR and TE on the board, in the second round, you would have been thrilled.

Vinny is not the smartest man in football. Vinny is not the best team builder in football. Vinny has creepy eyes and an annoying laugh. But oone thing Vinny is good at, is talent evaluation. All the way back to recruiting at Notre Dame, Vinny can identify talent. He did it in South Bend, and he did it in San Fran. Now, he has been given his shot here. He has been afforded 2 seasons by Dan to be THE guy.

In year 1, he traded down and acquired additional picks. He used 10 picks to build depth, hedging WR bets by picking 2 in hopes that 1 develops into a 1 or 2. He acquired te best TE on the board, allowing the Skins (in theory) to have a dangerous 2 TE set. He got depth on the OLine in Rhino. Took a chance on a punter. Found a steal in the 7th.

In year 2, he won the bidding war for the THE FA (addressed the Dline), got Dockery back for reasonable money (addressed the OLine), resigned 2 veteran leaders (addressed the lockeroom and DLine), resigned a CB (addressed the lack of turnover issue, and got younger). And he still has the draft to go.

Has he patched all the holes? Obviously not. We still need to get younger on the OLine, a young LDE, a young SAM, and some overall depth. But he has done a decent job filling what most on this board have identified as the glaring weaknesses of this team. We need the young WR to step up this year. We need a younger OLine (hello Mr. Oher/Smith at 13). This team is better rioght now than it was at the end of last year.

[stwasm]

Snyder doesn't really care about the redskins fans or winning. He's the Donald Sterling of the NFL. He's just concerned about his personal fantasy football fantasy pleasure.

Actually, I think Snyder does care about winning. The problem is, he wants to do it on his terms. He wants to show everyone that he's the smartest man in the room and put all the credit on himself if by some wild stretch of the imagination, the Redskins win that fourth Lombardi trophy to join the rapidly-aging ones we already have. But, you're right. He'd rather be involved and lose, than not be involved and win. He has to have the spotlight and that costs us, the fans, in terms of having to watch a poor product.

[Chump Bailey]

Except that you don't know whether he was or was not on our radar. My guess: he was and Cerrato decided to go elsewhere. Let's give it another year before we start pronouncing whiffs.

Please.

Right - hence the should. My Guess: He wasn't - not even close considering his draft history and personal opinion on selecting DE's on the first day. Pursuing a WR with a pre-existing knee condition who likely could have been selected later instead of a DE who was making noise and moving up in the draft may seem perfectly logical to you, but not I. Also: please stop being such an unabashed apologist for VC when clearly there is some level of doubt about his decison making in this particular instance - it's beneath you.

[DieHardSkins88]

dude... vinny even stated that all snyder does is write the checks and make sure everyone wants the player. He is an excellent owner, the problem lies with vinny now. Why you think Snyder put Vinny in the position he is in now? Because if/when he fails he has to be held responsible.

[Horatio]

Actually, I think Snyder does care about winning. The problem is, he wants to do it on his terms. He wants to show everyone that he's the smartest man in the room and put all the credit on himself if by some wild stretch of the imagination, the Redskins win that fourth Lombardi trophy to join the rapidly-aging ones we already have. But, you're right. He'd rather be involved and lose, than not be involved and win. He has to have the spotlight and that costs us, the fans, in terms of having to watch a poor product.

There's the rub. Snyder made his billions by being a bully-in-chief, and his own employees were not allowed to look him in the eye at Snyder Communications. Is this the kind of guy who would actually listen to the advice of others??

Snyder's motto must be "It is better to rule in hell (in this case, the basement of the NFC East), than to serve in heaven" (which is hiring a competent GM and getting the f**k out of personnel moves).

[Ernie5]

Wrong! His dedication to making money and marketing are second to none. His dedication to putting a winning team on the field does not exist!

WOW. Why even watch football? Or you actually a financial/marketing guy? If so, curses to you for getting us into this economic crisis.

[Ernie5]

Blind hate. Last year, EVERYONE, and their mother, swore that the Skins needed playmakers to improve the offense. What do we do? We use 3 of the 10 draft picks we had on playmakers. Of course, arm-chairing the draft at the end of the season, we maybe should have drafted O & D line more. We have 5 picks this year. that makes 15 for the 2 years Vinny has been in charge. 5 years ago, if you were given the option of having 15 picks over 2 years, you would have been salivating. If you had been told we could have the highest rated WR and TE on the board, in the second round, you would have been thrilled.

Vinny is not the smartest man in football. Vinny is not the best team builder in football. Vinny has creepy eyes and an annoying laugh. But oone thing Vinny is good at, is talent evaluation. All the way back to recruiting at Notre Dame, Vinny can identify talent. He did it in South Bend, and he did it in San Fran. Now, he has been given his shot here. He has been afforded 2 seasons by Dan to be THE guy.

In year 1, he traded down and acquired additional picks. He used 10 picks to build depth, hedging WR bets by picking 2 in hopes that 1 develops into a 1 or 2. He acquired te best TE on the board, allowing the Skins (in theory) to have a dangerous 2 TE set. He got depth on the OLine in Rhino. Took a chance on a punter. Found a steal in the 7th.

In year 2, he won the bidding war for the THE FA (addressed the Dline), got Dockery back for reasonable money (addressed the OLine), resigned 2 veteran leaders (addressed the lockeroom and DLine), resigned a CB (addressed the lack of turnover issue, and got younger). And he still has the draft to go.

Has he patched all the holes? Obviously not. We still need to get younger on the OLine, a young LDE, a young SAM, and some overall depth. But he has done a decent job filling what most on this board have identified as the glaring weaknesses of this team. We need the young WR to step up this year. We need a younger OLine (hello Mr. Oher/Smith at 13). This team is better rioght now than it was at the end of last year.

Well put.

[Ernie5]

Right - hence the should. My Guess: He wasn't - not even close considering his draft history and personal opinion on selecting DE's on the first day. Pursuing a WR with a pre-existing knee condition who likely could have been selected later instead of a DE who was making noise and moving up in the draft may seem perfectly logical to you, but not I. Also: please stop being such an unabashed apologist for VC when clearly there is some level of doubt about his decison making in this particular instance - it's beneath you.

I'll give you this: you at least admit that you're guessing.

You have no clue what they were and weren't considering and what went into their decisionmaking (none of us do). I'm not an apologist for Cerrato, but when you attack someone -- anyone -- at least have some factual basis. Unless you were part of the scouting and drafting process of last year's draft, you have no idea what went on. If you were part of the scouting and drafting process of last year's draft, how dare you pass on Jones! You really whiffed there, pal.

[GIBBS LIVES]

Except that you don't know whether he was or was not on our radar. My guess: he was and Cerrato decided to go elsewhere. Let's give it another year before we start pronouncing whiffs.

Please.

Ernie5,

Your an apologist. And since this is an official Redskins site, I think you have ties directly to the front office.

Let me help you out son:

YOU DON'T KNOWINGLY TAKE A WR WITH DEAD KNEES OVER A D-LINE PROSPECT THAT YOU KNEW WAS PRETTY GOOD!!!! YOU JUST DON'T.

Makes no sense whatsoever. And you can't defend it!

[Metskins]

That is a VERY false statement. Danny has made some stupid moves, but his dedication to winning is absolutely unquestionable.

This is a big, steaming pile of BS.

Snyder CARES about buzz, he CARES about marketing, he CARES about being able to run the team himself. It trumps his desire to win. That's evidenced by his hiring of a clown to run the football team so he can stay in the background and pull the strings. He could have hired a real GM years ago but he consistently refuses to do so because he WANTS TO RUN THE TEAM.

The fallacy that he wants to win because he spends money is the dumbest, more perpetrated idiotic statement on this board. You don't win in the NFL by spending money. You win by drafting good players and spending money WISELY.

[GIBBS LIVES]

This is a big, steaming pile of BS.

Snyder CARES about buzz, he CARES about marketing, he CARES about being able to run the team himself. It trumps his desire to win. That's evidenced by his hiring of a clown to run the football team so he can stay in the background and pull the strings. He could have hired a real GM years ago but he consistently refuses to do so because he WANTS TO RUN THE TEAM.

The fallacy that he wants to win because he spends money is the dumbest, more perpetrated idiotic statement on this board. You don't win in the NFL by spending money. You win by drafting good players and spending money WISELY.

Snyder only wants to win IF HE'S THE MASTER MIND RUNNING THE TEAM. PERIOD!!

If it involved a real GM coming in here and telling Snyder to stay out of the day to day runnings of the team for the team to win, SNYDER WOULDN'T STAND FOR IT.

Snyder wants to win on his terms ONLY!!

[artmonkforHOF]

last years draft was a total debacle. We should have taken Merling at #21 when we had the chance, then Vinny could go pick up any bust WR in the second he wants. Your idea works to, keep the trade down, but then get the best DE you can with that first 2nd rounder and then fill in the WR's later. I think last years draft would have drasticaly changed had we not started the run on WR's.

What really irks me is in the presser after the draft, Danny & Vinny said "we took the WR's because we need production NOW." then 2 months into the season when none of the 3 picks had even seen the field, they made Zorn go in front of the media and take the shots by saying "well, WR's usually take 2 years to develop, so these guys are on track." WTF???

I think the real problem is Danny sees one problem with the team and thinks if we get that fixed we are good to go, but it never works like that. you can sign a big name FA guy to fill one hole, but if you have more than one hole, which the Skins do, then you cant keep signing big name FA's or that is all you will have left on your team. 18 guys who play 98% of snaps and the rest of your team makes the league minimum.

[maskedsuperstar]

Ernie5,

Your an apologist. And since this is an official Redskins site, I think you have ties directly to the front office.

Let me help you out son:

YOU DON'T KNOWINGLY TAKE A WR WITH DEAD KNEES OVER A D-LINE PROSPECT THAT YOU KNEW WAS PRETTY GOOD!!!! YOU JUST DON'T.

Makes no sense whatsoever. And you can't defend it!

Thats easy to defend. The Skins defense finished 4th in the league, without many sacks.

What DL are we talking about? Philip Merling? The problem with the Skins is the offense. They don't score points. Are you blind? No rookie DL played lights out last year. Calais Campbell didn't get picked until the 2nd round, and many mocks had him going to the Skins at 21. So, somebody knew that he wasn't first round talent.

[artmonkforHOF]

Blind hate. Last year, EVERYONE, and their mother, swore that the Skins needed playmakers to improve the offense. What do we do? We use 3 of the 10 draft picks we had on playmakers. Of course, arm-chairing the draft at the end of the season, we maybe should have drafted O & D line more. We have 5 picks this year. that makes 15 for the 2 years Vinny has been in charge. 5 years ago, if you were given the option of having 15 picks over 2 years, you would have been salivating. If you had been told we could have the highest rated WR and TE on the board, in the second round, you would have been thrilled.

Vinny is not the smartest man in football. Vinny is not the best team builder in football. Vinny has creepy eyes and an annoying laugh. But oone thing Vinny is good at, is talent evaluation. All the way back to recruiting at Notre Dame, Vinny can identify talent. He did it in South Bend, and he did it in San Fran. Now, he has been given his shot here. He has been afforded 2 seasons by Dan to be THE guy.

In year 1, he traded down and acquired additional picks. He used 10 picks to build depth, hedging WR bets by picking 2 in hopes that 1 develops into a 1 or 2. He acquired te best TE on the board, allowing the Skins (in theory) to have a dangerous 2 TE set. He got depth on the OLine in Rhino. Took a chance on a punter. Found a steal in the 7th.

In year 2, he won the bidding war for the THE FA (addressed the Dline), got Dockery back for reasonable money (addressed the OLine), resigned 2 veteran leaders (addressed the lockeroom and DLine), resigned a CB (addressed the lack of turnover issue, and got younger). And he still has the draft to go.

Has he patched all the holes? Obviously not. We still need to get younger on the OLine, a young LDE, a young SAM, and some overall depth. But he has done a decent job filling what most on this board have identified as the glaring weaknesses of this team. We need the young WR to step up this year. We need a younger OLine (hello Mr. Oher/Smith at 13). This team is better rioght now than it was at the end of last year.

blind hate? maybe for some, check my posts from last year,I was pissed we did not take a DE on day one. That was a glaring need, made more obvious by the fact when one DE goes down in practice, the team panics and trades for Jason Taylor. As for Kelly, I made it clear I did not want that whinning punk on this team after he pulled the whole "field turf/astroturf" deal at his pro day. And if Vinny is so good at talent evaluation, why did he not take Jordy Nelson, Eddie Royal or DeSean Jackson with that pick he wasted on Thomas?

And for the top rated WR, maybe on your board, but not on mine. And I know Dustin Keller and John Carlson where higher rated TE's than Fred sleepyhead Davis, and Martellus Bennett might have been as well. The Davis pick was so out in left field, I think Mike Mayock's exact quote was "this makes no sense to me." Davis was ranked between 90-130 on most scouts lists and we took him at #48, hardly a value pick by any standards.

Had the FO taken a DE in last years draft, they would still have a second rounder this year and would not have wasted a year with Jason taylor. And isn't that what half of the posts for this years draft is about? how we would love to trade down to get another pick, possibly a 2nd rounder?

I would much rather have one 2nd round pick this year than 3 in last years draft.

[Rocky21]

Classic examples of Cerrato's ineptness?

"You know Taylor said this could well be his last year, then he might move to L.A. to act or dance or whatever. How much of a chance do you think he's one and done?''

"Zero,'' Cerrato said. "I'm 100 percent sure he's going to play out this contract [which has 2008 and 2009 to run] and then some. I wouldn't be surprised if he signed another contract and played several more years.''

For a 2nd and a 6th round draft pick, the Skins got 13 games out of 1 guy. Some see trading future draft picks for short term fixes in the form of aging veterans as bad management. Some do not.

But but but.....who could have predicted an undersized, 12 year veteran D lineman would be ineffective or injured? Uhh, Bill Parcells.

[SirClintonPortis]

I think that's part of the problem. While I appreciate that he loves the team as a fan, I'm pretty confident in saying that I don't want a fan running the team. Fan's are impetuous. Fans don't have patience.

75% of Extremeskins members disagree. Vet min+incentives to every released FA is the way to go, baby!!!!:silly:

[clarkskin]

He's a redskins fan too. He gives it his all to make this team a contender. He just broke the bank for 3 players. Now is it the best way to make the team a contender? Based on history, no.

However, he may not have the patience like many on here to build through the draft and waiting for our players to develop. Everybody excpected Kelly,Thomas, and Davis to have pro bowl years and that is completely unfair. It takes time to change into the NFL, some can make the change quicker than others though.

Good point. So many ES folks have completely given up on Campbell, Thomas, Kelly, Davis, Zorn, etc. after a relatively short period of time, yet think that we need to build through the draft. Are those same people going to suddenly sit by and patiently watch the team totally suck and decide to stick with our young guys even if they dont come out of the womb as All-Pro's? Doubt it.

[Shilsu]

We didn't get Jones, but I hadn't heard Jones's name from anybody before the draft as a guy we should be looking at.

I don't recall people here clamoring about Jason Jones. If you recall, the noise was all about Calais Campbell.

Jason Jones' name was thrown around plenty of times on ExtremeSkins. Many talked about possibly taking him if he fell to the third round, some talked about taking him in the second round, and some wondered why Mel Kiper had him rated as a first round talent.

In fact, our very own Ernie5 here said this:

"I would have taken Jason Jones over C. Campbell."

It's amazing how people will say anything to protect Vinny Cerrato.

[Stophovr6]

I'm just tired of everyone that says he's only been given one year to prove himself as GM. REally??!? How many years has he been in this league? How many years has he been with the Skins? How many decisions has he made that you know of outside of his one year as Vice President of Football Operations, or whatever stupid title they came up with? How can he not be a ****ing genius at this **** by now?

All that BS title does is insure that if Vinny doesn't work out as de facto GM, he won't be fired, but a new position titled GM will be slipped in between him and everyone below him.

I will be absolutely shocked if this time next year, we aren't talking about having to fill yet another three starting positions with four draft picks and injured vet wash ups.

[Hooper]

Vinny is just a Yes man. Snyder has no interest in hiring a real front office guy -- he made this clear when he brought back Vinny for a second time.

I shudder to think how much we're going to give up for Cutler.