Classic example of Cerrato's ineptness

[Thinking Skins]

Jason Jones' name was thrown around plenty of times on ExtremeSkins. Many talked about possibly taking him if he fell to the third round, some talked about taking him in the second round, and some wondered why Mel Kiper had him rated as a first round talent.

In fact, our very own Ernie5 here said this:

"I would have taken Jason Jones over C. Campbell."

It's amazing how people will say anything to protect Vinny Cerrato.

I never said his name wasn't discussed - just that I hadn't heard his name discussed. The main guys we were talking about were Merling, Laws and Campbell. Even Laws wasn't mentioned too much, but from my memory he had more of a following than Jones.

But like I also said, if Jones turns out to be a steal for the Titans, then so be it. That means every other team in the league is right along with the Redskins in having missed out on him. The fact is (as Oldskool posted) that he had questions coming out so he had a potental factor and also a huge bust factor. I guess that when Vinny evaluated the potential vs bust factors of Jones, Thomas, Kelly, and Davis, he said that the later three had better potential than Jones.

He could be wrong about that. I'm not so set on declaring last years draft a good or bad one, especially not after one year.

[Shilsu]

I never said his name wasn't discussed - just that I hadn't heard his name discussed. The main guys we were talking about were Merling, Laws and Campbell. Even Laws wasn't mentioned too much, but from my memory he had more of a following than Jones.

That's not that hard to explain. Players expected to go in the first round are more likely to be talked about than players expected to go in the second round who are more likely to be talked about than players expected to go in the third round. Anyway, just because you didn't hear his name discussed doesn't mean he wasn't a viable pick. Not doing your homework from the second round on is exactly why the Redskins are horrible at valuing their picks and utilizing the draft properly.

But like I also said, if Jones turns out to be a steal for the Titans, then so be it. That means every other team in the league is right along with the Redskins in having missed out on him. The fact is (as Oldskool posted) that he had questions coming out so he had a potental factor and also a huge bust factor. I guess that when Vinny evaluated the potential vs bust factors of Jones, Thomas, Kelly, and Davis, he said that the later three had better potential than Jones.

He could be wrong about that. I'm not so set on declaring last years draft a good or bad one, especially not after one year.

So what has Vinny done to earn the benefit of the doubt? And other teams didn't have as many holes as we did on our defensive line and decide to take a tight end projected to be a #2 at best, only to have him produce just three catches.

The Titans had Haynesworth in their contract year so they drafted Jason Jones and William Hayes. The Colts had a hole at the guard position and the possibility of Jeff Saturday exiting the team, so they drafted three offensive linemen who were interchangeable at the guard and center position.

The Redskins had holes at the DT position (often cited as a position of weakness), the DE position (not only was it a weakness, but both Evans and Daniels had expiring contracts), the RT position (Jansen has been known to be finished as early as 2006 and Heyer was never the answer if anyone ever properly analyzed the 2007 season), and the G position (Kendall had an expiring contract, Thomas was getting old).

And we decided to take... Fred Davis. That's idiocy.

[Thinking Skins]

You're putting words into my mouth. I never said anything to defend Vinny. But since when do you judge a draft after one year? The Davis pick upset me a lot too. The Colts drafted OL and still had MAJOR problems protecting Manning early in the season when their OL went down. We're not the only team that didn't have success in our second round picks. If Davis, Thomas and Kelly help Campbell throw a lot of TDs this coming year, then I'll be pleased with last years draft.

I don't know what you'll about last years draft, but I have a feeling that no matter what you're going to hold me accountable for something I didn't say.

[Shilsu]

You're putting words into my mouth. I never said anything to defend Vinny. But since when do you judge a draft after one year? The Davis pick upset me a lot too. The Colts drafted OL and still had MAJOR problems protecting Manning early in the season when their OL went down. We're not the only team that didn't have success in our second round picks. If Davis, Thomas and Kelly help Campbell throw a lot of TDs this coming year, then I'll be pleased with last years draft.

I don't know what you'll about last years draft, but I have a feeling that no matter what you're going to hold me accountable for something I didn't say.

Let me ask you a simple question about Blackjack.

The Dealer shows a 10.

You have 15. You stay.

I have 15. I hit and I bust.

The Dealer flips his card over and he has 17.

We both lose, but are we both idiots?

No, only one is.

[Never4get#21]

Ahhhh it's actually funny to see the Vinny haters this early. Usually it's later in the season when were looking at a sub .500 season and the FA/Draft picks dont pan out.

Usually we make offseason moves that give everyone this false hope that "This is the season were contenders now!!" Only to have the pretenders threads start later.

Last year at 6-2 people were praising Vinny for finally learning. No major FA moves(even though he tried with CJ and Briggs), and a good selection for Head Coach(that never was more then a QB coach) only to have the season plummet and everyone call for his immediate resignation.

Bottom Line: Snyder is a decent owner. He'll spend not matter the cost to get what he feels is a quality player. You appreciate a owner like that when your in other cities that cant hold a great player like Albert. I still think Thomas will pan out, and I hope Rhino can move to guard and that Davis will see significant play time. That would make the draft successful IMO. Vinny knows as much about football as he does acting, so yes I do think we need a GM. Hopefully we'll see a change if we have yet another up and down season with no paloff.

[The Sisko]

Ernie5,

Your an apologist. And since this is an official Redskins site, I think you have ties directly to the front office.

Let me help you out son:

YOU DON'T KNOWINGLY TAKE A WR WITH DEAD KNEES OVER A D-LINE PROSPECT THAT YOU KNEW WAS PRETTY GOOD!!!! YOU JUST DON'T.

Makes no sense whatsoever. And you can't defend it!

...but that won't stop Vinny, 'er Ernie from trying dagnabbit!

[Stophovr6]

Ahhhh it's actually funny to see the Vinny haters this early.

I'm a Vinny hater year round. Although I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at one point. If you ever see any Vinny praising going on and I'm not around, PM me and I'll come a ****in'.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

some of you are acting like vinny should have taken a dlineman on day one of the draft. cmon guys, the redskins have not selected a dlineman on day 1 of the nfl draft in 12 years, since 1997.

and theyre never going to no matter how much i or anyone else wants them to.

[Thinking Skins]

Let me ask you a simple question about Blackjack.

The Dealer shows a 10.

You have 15. You stay.

I have 15. I hit and I bust.

The Dealer flips his card over and he has 17.

We both lose, but are we both idiots?

No, only one is.

15 is not a definite either way. Sometimes you hit, sometiems you stay.

If you gave me an example of a person who hit on 19, then I'd say they were stupid. If you gave me an example of a person who stayed on 10, then I'd say they were stupid.

So I'd say neither is an idiot. We both played our hand to what we thought was right.

[Rocky21]

...but that won't stop Vinny, 'er Ernie from trying dagnabbit!

Good one Yusuf. I think Ernie5 and Vinny are indeed the same person.

[stoney26]

Let me ask you a simple question about Blackjack.

The Dealer shows a 10.

You have 15. You stay.

I have 15. I hit and I bust.

The Dealer flips his card over and he has 17.

We both lose, but are we both idiots?

No, only one is.

Lmao....thats a great analogy

[robotfire]

That is a VERY false statement. Danny has made some stupid moves, but his dedication to winning is absolutely unquestionable.

"Unquestionable"? It seems to me he makes a lot of poor decisions for someone with such a valiant heart. You don't think any of the moves he's made have been about creating a buzz and getting people in their seats instead of actually winning?

[Braxford]

but dont forget the positives, if not for snyder/cerrato, there would be no moss, no portis, no london, no ST (RIP), no landry....

You make a good point but remember that Joe Gibbs heavily influenced those picks. I personally like what the Skins have done this offseason SO FAR except letting Demetric Evans walk away to the 49ers for cheap. The Skins should have resigned him and gone total OLine in the draft. IMO.

[Mania]

The Skins had 3 or 4 sacks against the Steelers as well. If we could have had that many sacks against the steelers, if Jones had 3 sacks it doesn't mean anything.

[turbodiesel#44]

15 is not a definite either way. Sometimes you hit, sometiems you stay.

No, you have to play the odds if you want long term success. That is the only way. You take the hit on 15 if the dealer shows face. You might get lucky here or there, but you will end up losing.

Unless you have found a single or double deck table and are counting.

[Justsomeguy]

Hahaha. I have seen this same thread every single day(just with a different title) since before I even joined ES. The same lines with mostly the same people regurgitating over and over and over again.

So even if I cited sources that said Danny never does anything but sign a check then you wouldn't believe it. If I cited numerous players from numerous positions that have been brilliant acquisitions they wouldn't matter. If I showed countless comparisons between the skins and other teams the only ones that would matter would be the ones that support your opinions. When the skins acquire old players it is stupid. When the pats do it, it is simply genius.

All this talk of a more patient approach to football business yet those same people already proclaiming that they are busts.

There is no winning this argument!

There is no losing this argument.

I am not saying that none of this should be posted and discussed.

But.. If you are going to start a thread at least bring something new and original to the table.

As frustrated as some may be with Snyder and Cerrato, I am equally frustrated with the completely insane posts with no rational discussion or anything original.

....Ever since the redskins.com merger.....

[Thinking Skins]

Hahaha. I have seen this same thread every single day(just with a different title) since before I even joined ES. The same lines with mostly the same people regurgitating over and over and over again.

but if they stop showing up, outside sources will say that we don't allow haters.

[Justsomeguy]

but if they stop showing up, outside sources will say that we don't allow haters.

Yeah...Gotta be PC and all.:gus::doh:

[Shilsu]

15 is not a definite either way. Sometimes you hit, sometiems you stay.

If you gave me an example of a person who hit on 19, then I'd say they were stupid. If you gave me an example of a person who stayed on 10, then I'd say they were stupid.

So I'd say neither is an idiot. We both played our hand to what we thought was right.

Unfortunately, you gave the absolute wrong answer.

You hit the 15 based on probabilities. Not on your "gut feeling".

The person who stayed on 15 is an idiot... Even if he had won the hand, he'd be an idiot. Just a lucky one.

Now apply that to the Redskins.

[Thinking Skins]

Unfortunately, you gave the absolute wrong answer.

You hit the 15 based on probabilities. Not on your "gut feeling".

The person who stayed on 15 is an idiot... Even if he had won the hand, he'd be an idiot. Just a lucky one.

Now apply that to the Redskins.

at 15, you get bust with the 7, 8, 9, 10, J, K, Q

you can win with a A, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

The way I see it, you've got about an even chance wither way. I don't claim to be the best blackjack player, but going off pure probabilities I don't see it as an idiot to stay on 15.

But I'm too lost in the analogy now. How does this relate to football?

[Shilsu]

at 15, you get bust with the 7, 8, 9, 10, J, K, Q

you can win with a A, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

The way I see it, you've got about an even chance wither way. I don't claim to be the best blackjack player, but going off pure probabilities I don't see it as an idiot to stay on 15.

But I'm too lost in the analogy now. How does this relate to football?

Here's how it relates to football:

Using flawed logic and dumb rationalizations to defend stupid decisions.

Your reasoning on why it's okay to stay on 15 versus dealer showing a 10 is very similar to the reasoning that's often found on this board why the Redskins can miss out on any number of players, such as Jason Jones.

They're wrong.

[Thinking Skins]

Here's how it relates to football:

Using flawed logic and dumb rationalizations to defend stupid decisions.

Your reasoning on why it's okay to stay on 15 versus dealer showing a 10 is very similar to the reasoning that's often found on this board why the Redskins can miss out on any number of players, such as Jason Jones.

They're wrong.

so is anybody who disagrees with you wrong? is that the way we're defining wrong now?

[Shilsu]

so is anybody who disagrees with you wrong? is that the way we're defining wrong now?

When you give reasoning similar to your reasoning on how it's okay to stay on 15 because it's about an even chance based on pure probabilities, which is pretty much factually wrong, you're wrong.

[turbodiesel#44]

at 15, you get bust with the 7, 8, 9, 10, J, K, Q

you can win with a A, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

The way I see it, you've got about an even chance wither way.

Nope, not if the house takes pushes. And if they don't, they get you somewhere else with another rule.

[Thinking Skins]

Nope, not if the house takes pushes. And if they don't, they get you somewhere else with another rule.

'push'??