'Consumer Reports' puts Chrysler, GM in bottom spots

[zoony]

The problem I have is, what I'm looking for is hard to find. I'd like a true wagon, with power and a stick shift, at a reasonable price.

.

Yah stick-shifts are gone . I'm right with you there, it sucks.

[Dictator]

Yah stick-shifts are gone . I'm right with you there, it sucks.

I agree. so there are no stick-shifts available on the lots...if you want one, you have to order it...if you want an automatic, they charge you extra. WTF.

[Elessar78]

Also, Consumer Reports rates on a category they call "Predicted Reliability", based on the how previous model years have done.

[zoony]

I agree. so there are no stick-shifts available on the lots...if you want one, you have to order it...if you want an automatic, they charge you extra. WTF.

Not only that- but on the new Accord Coupe, the stickshift gets WORSE gas mileage than the Auto.

WTF...

Stick shifts used to be awesome for those of us that prefer them anyways. Buy a new car, save $2000, save money on gas, get better power, and have more fun.

Now- you have to special order one, it gets worse gas mileage, and it only has 5 gears instead of 6.

Automatics are for *******. Sorry, they just are.

[Dictator]

Not only that- but on the new Accord Coupe, the stickshift gets WORSE gas mileage than the Auto.

WTF...

Stick shifts used to be awesome for those of us that prefer them anyways. Buy a new car, save $2000, save money on gas, get better power, and have more fun.

Now- you have to special order one, it gets worse gas mileage, and it only has 5 gears instead of 6.

Automatics are for *******. Sorry, they just are.

the new wranglers are 6 speed

The automatic technology has really come a long way though. They just aren't as fun.

[China]

Automatics are for *******. Sorry, they just are.

Agreed.

I learned to drive on an old VW bus. Hardly sporty. The throw was huge and finding reverse (where you had to press down on the stick) could sometimes be a challenge.

Still, sticks are more fun. I'm always amazed by people who can't drive one but claim to be a good driver.

[artmonkforHOF]

I keep hearing that Consumer Reports has it out for American automakers.

Can someone please tell me why a bunch of American gearhead writers and editors would have a shared nefarious agenda to undercut the American auto industry?

Something tells me it's not about advertising dollars. If Consumer Reports was that easily bought, Detroit would have caught on long ago and dumped a few million extra dollars -- a pittance -- into making Consumer Reports a secret marketing wing for the American automakers.

Edit: Also, from the article, 2 things jump out at me:

1) Part of the rankings come from owner experiences. So Americans unfairly hate American cars? Or are they being honest?

2) This quote:

GM has lots of older models in the lineup that bring down the results, spokeswoman Janine Fruehan says. The magazine recognized improved quality in some of GM's new vehicles, "but we have work to do on the reliability front," Fruehan says.

So GM isn't exactly arguing against the ranking here.

Doesn't smell like conspiracy to me.

There is no Consumer's reports conspiracy against American cars. it's just blindly loyal ignorant american car fans who can't believe that the cars people told them for such a long time are the best, actually are not.

The other group that tries to spread this rumor are UAW members, who to this day still think they are more efficient and make better cars than their Japanese & German counter parts.

[Elessar78]

There is no Consumer's reports conspiracy against American cars. it's just blindly loyal ignorant american car fans who can't believe that the cars people told them for such a long time are the best, actually are not.

The other group that tries to spread this rumor are UAW members, who to this day still think they are more efficient and make better cars than their Japanese & German counter parts.

Why must you spread your anti-American hatred in this thread?? (sarcasm)

[zoony]

Why must you spread your anti-American hatred in this thread?? (sarcasm)

I would insult Canada's economy, but it's hard to think of crude oil / mining / timber harvesting jokes. You know, the cro-magnon stuff other developed nations did for cash 200 years ago

jus jokes, jus jokes

[Elessar78]

don't forget their blood diamonds.

[mjah]

and right there you proved my point to Mjah.

The irony here is that I specifically requested empirical data, only to have the point "proven" by a single anecdote that is statistically representative of less than 0.000001% of the American public. (Yes, I did the math.)

There is no Consumer's reports conspiracy against American cars. it's just blindly loyal ignorant american car fans who can't believe that the cars people told them for such a long time are the best, actually are not.

The other group that tries to spread this rumor are UAW members, who to this day still think they are more efficient and make better cars than their Japanese & German counter parts.

What I find most interesting about the UAW is this idea that they can somehow surpass Japanese car quality just by power of sheer blue-collar will and pride on the line, even though the UAW only touches the product at the fabrication and assembly stages.

Never mind the white-collar product designers and engineers whose millions of decisions (good and bad) might have just a teeny tiny impact on final assembled quality before the UAW even touches a single raw material or component.

Not to mention the product designers and managers, whose influence on final quality I won't even get into.

Obviously it's incredibly important to have diligent, attentive, empowered people moving the metal and communicating back upstream. Without working toward that ideal on the line, you're doomed. But that's only half the picture, and actually I'd say it's less than half the picture. Assembly problems due to something under the UAW's control can be rectified (if the UAW doesn't get in the way). But a single poor decision at design time -- when the vehicle exists only in a computer model -- can cause years of ruinous trouble that won't get fixed until the next (re)design. And maybe not even then.

[HOF44]

I'd like a true wagon, with power and a stick shift, at a reasonable price.

You need the ole Family Truckster!

[Dictator]

The irony here is that I specifically requested empirical data, only to have the point "proven" by a single anecdote that is statistically representative of less than 0.000001% of the American public. (Yes, I did the math.)

well, I'm not home yet to gather my paper!

And still, the knee jerk reaction from the fan of japanese autos was "fluke".

I know it's not "proof"...but its more than I had in the post from before

[greenspandan]

i love how the family truckster has wood paneling .... on the hood

ANYWAY. my wife and i both own chryslers. she's got a PT Cruiser and i've got a 300C SRT-8. both have about 60k miles and neither one has been in the shop for anything other than scheduled maintenence. both have been outstanding in the reliability category, and i for one couldn't be more pleased with the SRT8.

oh yeah and i'm a bleeding heart liberal, not a nationalistic "BUY AMERICA OR ELSE" kind of person.

[mjah]

i love how the family truckster has wood paneling .... on the hood

I'm partial to the Speed Gills and crown monogram over the rear wheels.

[The 12th Commandment]

The DSG tranny on my VW GTI is a computer controlled, double clutch manual that acts like an automatic. I think that's more and more common these days. It gets more power and better mileage than the stick. Still, if not for other considerations, I would have bought the stick because it's more fun. Cars like my GTI may not be as reliable as japanese cars but they're a lot better than they used to be. Even according to the car mags. It's a ball to drive, gets good mileage and has an interior that rocks. That said, I'd agree with zoon so far as to say I won't own it after the warranty's gone. Too expensive to fix when they do break and too many cool (but gimmecky) electronic features to break.

I'd add I love my '01 S-10 4x4. Hardly a problem in 8 years and 100K miles. I'll have it long after the VW is modded up by some punk kid.

[zoony]

The best was "Honkey Lips" spray painted on the side- lol

[BigMike619]

honky lips is the name of my new band.

[Prosperity]

I keep hearing that Consumer Reports has it out for American automakers.

Can someone please tell me why a bunch of American gearhead writers and editors would have a shared nefarious agenda to undercut the American auto industry?

It won't the first time writers confirm common sense out of laziness instead of investigating the truth, but they're probably right in this case

[HeHateIggles]

So far I've purchased/owned 5 new cars:

1996 Chevy Beretta (yeah it was cheap)

1999 Chevy Z28

2003 Nissan Altima

2004 Chevy Colorado

2008 Honda Odyssey

I am very particular about my vehicles - if my new car rattles - it gets fixed under warranty - period.

Now because of that every one of them has been in the shop for warranty work at some time.

All but the Honda have been recalled (the Nissan around 4 or 5 times).

The Nissan and the Chevy Colorado both left me stranded 1 time each.

The Honda is only a year old with 11k miles on it - so the jury is still out on that (it's been in the shop twice already).

If there is a quality gap between "Japanese" make and "US" makes - I don't think the range between "best" and "worst" is all that great.

/I want my Z28 back.

[isle-hawg]

There is no Consumer's reports conspiracy against American cars. it's just blindly loyal ignorant american car fans who can't believe that the cars people told them for such a long time are the best, actually are not.

I own/have owned 11 cars and trucks. All but one was American, the one that wasn't a Volkswagen. I have spent more money in (routine) repairs and upkeep to the VW then my 10 American cars and trucks combined...

[88Comrade2000]

Well you won't have to worry about GM and Chrysler much longer. The government should let those companies go under and make sure that doesn't impact Ford to much.

Ford can get Chrysler's Jeep and Mini-van.

[Springfield]

I agree with the CR rankings... but hey, I'm biased. I think that American cars are great in "initial quality". The problem is that they have a larger repair rate than the Japanese cars. It's the plain and simple truth. Any one who thinks that Chrysler, GM or Ford should be at #1, 2 and 3 are biased in their own respects. The difference is, I have many years of professional experience to back up my bias.

[88Comrade2000]

My Subaru is #2, woo hoo!

[SonnyJ]

If there is a quality gap between "Japanese" make and "US" makes - I don't think the range between "best" and "worst" is all that great.

This is my gut feeling on this issue. I think just about all cars made today are pretty good.

My own experience - we've had mainly 3 different cars over the last 10 years. A '97 Subaru Outback Sport, a '99 Olds Intrigue (bought used), and a '04 Dodge Magnum RT (bought used). Far and away the most problematic vehicle was the Subaru. The other two have been rock solid.

OTOH, my sister has ponied up the cash for two expensive Acuras over the last 7-8 years or so - a top-line TL and an MDX. Between the two, she's had 5 transmissions, a couple of which were not covered by warranty. It probably goes without saying, but they'll never buy Acura/Honda again.

The point is, you can find these random horror stories about any kind of car sprinkled all over, no matter the make or model. By and large, though, the quality/reliability of modern vehicles is pretty solid. Considering the complexity and the unavoidable wear and tear that any mechanical device is subjected to, it's pretty amazing that cars are as reliable as they are.

I find that buying a "relatively new" used American car is such an enormously better value than buying any comparable foreign vehicle (new or used), that it more than makes up for the perceived difference in quality.