CNN.com article- Bristol Palin: Abstinence for all teens 'not realistic'

[Johnny Punani]

What? That's crazy. Why would anyone want to reduce the usage of condoms amongst the sexually active?

I do say! Such a thing would be irrational and counterproductive to the collective reproductive health of the nation.

Hi Mr. Sarcastic!!! :laugh:

[Thiebear]

I'll be teaching my 10year old Daughter and in a while the 6yr old daughter abstinence only is the way to go based on all the diseases and baby's having baby's.

And how the boys probably stole the condom from their Dad.. and that Dad probably hasn't used it in years... check the expiration date before allowing anything....

And the call me anytime: no questions asked if needed.

I'd rather be uncomfortable now than having a cradle/crib/swing/bottles everywhere.

22$ for 10 diapers a day etc. etc. etc.

[HogNose]

Yeah, I'll be teaching my children abstinence only as the best form of birth control/STD protection.

My argument, is that it is the only 100% method by which to ensure you don't get pregnant or obtain an STD.

Yeah but they can practice abstinence and still get STD's from oral and anal sex. I've read articles in the past where anal sex has been on the rise among teens because many teens want to still consider themselves virgins and practicing abstinence.

Anyway abstinence isn't very realistic; it might work for priests and the guilt ridden but for the real world it fails in most cases.

It may sound like the right thing to teach a kid, but it's much safer to teach them about safe sex and how to protect themselves. If they decide not to have sex until they feel they are ready then that's fine too.

I'm not going to sugar coat anything to my sons when it comes to talking about sex and what the consequences may be.

Hell maybe I'll just let Jewel Aken explain it to them......

Let me tell you 'bout the birds and the bees

And the flowers and the trees

And the moon up above

And a thing called "Love"

Let me tell you 'bout the stars in the sky

And a girl and a guy

And the way they could kiss

On a night like this

When I look into your big brown eyes

It's so very plain to see

That it's time you learned about the facts of life

Starting from A to Z

Let me tell you 'bout the birds and the bees

And the flowers and the trees

And the moon up above

And a thing called "Love" (Yeah!)

When I look into your big brown eyes

It's so very plain to see

That it's time you learned about the facts of life

Starting from A to Z

Let me tell you 'bout the birds and the bees

And the flowers and the trees

And the moon up above

And a thing called "Love"

Let me tell you 'bout the birds and the bees

And the flowers and the trees

And the birds and the bees

And the flowers and the trees

'bout the birds

and the bees

[twa]

Good post keeastman, comprehensive sex ed based on abstinence,but including contraception,disease prevention (safe sex) is my choice as well.

For some reason the word abstinence makes some peoples reading capacity dwindle.

[Bang]

Yeah but they can practice abstinence and still get STD's from oral and anal sex. [/font]

Uh,,, if they're doing oral and anal, they're not being abstinent. Abstinence is to abstain from all sexual contact. (But the rest of your post is spot n.)

Abstinence is unnatural. Human bodies are physically ready to reproduce as an early teenager. To expect that teens will remain abstinent with absolutely no other precautions is to go against what every hormone in their body is telling them to do.

It's best to teach abstinence with a healthy dose of safe sex practices. Let's face it. Our kids won't be any different than we were, and I don't know about you, sex became a predominant desire in my head starting at around 13. It was all I could think about. I got my first at 16, and I'm sure plenty of us in here started even younger than that.

To expect kids to behave any differently because we've grown up and learned what is right is unreasonable. People tried to tell us not to do it for fear of babies. (AIDS was still only a gay disease when I was this age. The term "Safe Sex" hadn't been invented yet.) They tried like hell to stop us from having sex. And they failed.

In other words, we can tell our kids not to have sex til we're blue in the face. We can threaten them with every pregnancy story, every horrifying disease we can think of, and it won't make any difference. We can hope it will, but to expect it will is to leave yourself open for being a young grandparent, or worse.

Kids MUST be taught safe sex practices. I don't know why people still fight against it. Teaching abstinence ONLY doesn't work, never has worked, and never ever will work (Obviously there might be 1 in 50 kids who will willingly retain their virginity, but the fact is they're clearly the minority. Most teenagers are doing everything they can to lose their virginity, almost every waking minute of their lives.)

As we've also seen, these days sweet abstinent Sally still has her cherry, but she's blown more guys than she can count on both hands and feet. Sure, she won't get pregnant, and probably won't get a disease, but she's far from abstinent.

These days it's toooo risky to put all your eggs in one basket.. especially when that basket goes against every natural urge a teenager has. As we see by the opening topic, even a strict adherent to these practices like Governor Palin still could not prevent her own daughter's teen pregnancy. And that is not to say she's a bad mom or a hypocrite or any of that other stuff. She's a normal mom of a normal teenager, and something all too normal has happened.

I believe the only way to prevent these problems is to give your child a proper education on safe sex practices with an emphasis on abstinence, and then cross your fingers.

~Bang

[Major Harris]

keastman said "tarnation:

:rotflmao:

[ACW]

It's off base.

How does one expect kids not to have sex?

:jerk:

[HogNose]

Uh,,, if they're doing oral and anal, they're not being abstinent. Abstinence is to abstain from all sexual contact. (But the rest of your post is spot n.)

Yeah but oral sex isn't intercourse so it doesn't count ....I'm with Slick Willie on that one. :thumbsup:

[DCSaints_fan]

Abstinence is unnatural. Human bodies are physically ready to reproduce as an early teenager. To expect that teens will remain abstinent with absolutely no other precautions is to go against what every hormone in their body is telling them to do.

Well I don't consider myself unnatural. Yeah I had urges, and if you want to slug through my post mentioned before, it never came to me, at least not directly so perhaps I can't take the moral high ground. But everyone has urges, they need to learn how to control them. If you can't control your urges, thats a problem. I'm not imposing my values on anyone else, but to claim that its unnatural I think is a stretch.

[Larry]

For some reason the word abstinence makes some peoples reading capacity dwindle.

Or perhaps they're actually aware of what it is that masquerading behind the abstinence label. Maybe they object to the word "only".

But don't take their word for it. Tell them what they think. (Or don't.)

[Larry]

Yeah but oral sex isn't intercourse so it doesn't count ....I'm with Slick Willie on that one. :thumbsup:

Actually, I think that a case can be made that perhaps an excessive concentration on the "consequences" of sex, has led to the attitude that if there's no pregnancy, then there's no consequences.

Yes, it is possible to go too far in promoting the concept that "no pregnancy" = "safe".

Now, I don't see anybody out there actively lobbying for "contraceptive only" sex education.

I don't see any organized political movement out there, passing laws that make it illegal for a teacher to mention abstinence.

The claims that there's this conspiracy out there to teach kids that "as long as nobody gets pregnant, have all the sex you want" are as mythical as the liberal media conspiracy. It's a political move in the form of "I want to only teach one thing, therefore I claim that the other side only wants to teach one thing, and try to turn the debate into why teaching my one thing (and excluding everything else) is better than teaching the other one thing (and excluding everything else)."

But I do think we need to be looking at why so many teens seem to think that "oral sex isn't sex". I do think it's a problem.

(My proposal, if I'm teaching this subject? The first lesson I try to impart is "All sex has consequences". Even if nobody gets pregnant, no diseases, none of the other things that people talk about, there's still consequences. Every single time.)

(That lesson probably won't "take", either.)

[twa]

Is it mythical that the sex ed classes barely touch on abstinence?

Even back in my day it was barely touched on.

As far as 'only',I do think many fear kids being taught morality

Unless it's related to environmental issues,of course

[Stophovr6]

Is it mythical that the sex ed classes barely touch on abstinence?

Even back in my day it was barely touched on.

If no one was touching on you, there probably wasn't much need for sex ed. HA!

[Larry]

Is it mythical that the sex ed classes barely touch on abstinence?

Even back in my day it was barely touched on.

As far as 'only',I do think many fear kids being taught morality

Unless it's related to environmental issues,of course

I've previously stated. I personally have read proposed legislation forbidding instructors mentioning contraception.

How many pieces of proposed legislation have you read, forbidding instructors from recommending, or even mentioning abstinence?

[TheGoodBits]

And I need to learn to not quote things that break forum rules because that breaks the same rules

10-4, sorry bout that:)

[Enter Apotheosis]

Is it mythical that the sex ed classes barely touch on abstinence?

Even back in my day it was barely touched on.

Define "barely touched on". Abstinence is a very simple concept that doesn't necessarily require much in the way of in-depth thought or explanation. From what I remember from sex ed 6-10 years ago more time was devoted to the statistics associated with STDs and contraceptives than just about anything else. However, there were frequent reminders that abstinence is the only way to guarantee a clean bill of health and no chance of pregnancy.

[twa]

I've previously stated. I personally have read proposed legislation forbidding instructors mentioning contraception.

How many pieces of proposed legislation have you read, forbidding instructors from recommending, or even mentioning abstinence?

I've read 'proposed' legislation calling for reparations,a draft,and classes and permits for all gun owners...Don't mean much though does it?

If you visit the link I gave it gives the legal requirements for what defines abstinence only requirements are...real laws:)

EA, glad to hear it,but did they give strategy/methodology to accomplish abstinence?

If it is so difficult for people ,perhaps it is not as simple as just recommending it.

[Bang]

Well I don't consider myself unnatural. Yeah I had urges, and if you want to slug through my post mentioned before, it never came to me, at least not directly so perhaps I can't take the moral high ground. But everyone has urges, they need to learn how to control them. If you can't control your urges, thats a problem. I'm not imposing my values on anyone else, but to claim that its unnatural I think is a stretch.

It's no stretch at all. Look at our physiology. As a mammal, our natural reproductive years begin at about age 13 and end (for women) at around age 50.

Your body is pre-programmed to be ready for sexual activity and child bearing before you can legally drive a car.

So yes, abstinence is an unnatural state.

Being able to control it doesn't change that. it just means you're human and you can control it, and the fact is the majority of teens don't end up with babies or STDs, so plenty do either abstain or do it sxafely. (I think plenty who claim they aren't abstaining probably are.)

Fact is as civilized humans we control a lot of natural urges. Sex is just one of them.

~Bang

[mjah]

Is it mythical that the sex ed classes barely touch on abstinence?

Even back in my day it was barely touched on.

I had sex ed in 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th grades. By 7th and 8th grades it was called "Health Education" but it was clear that sex ed was the dominant part of the class.

Every year, even though contraception was thoroughly discussed and (in later grades) demonstrated, it was made VERY clear that abstinence was the one and only way to prevent pregnancy and disease completely. In fact, I still remember the exact words my 6th grade science teacher used. It was very clear, always emphasized, and it made a lot of sense to me.

Of course, I had no intention of following that advice. But by hearing it, I realized that there was a very real expectation for my behavior. It set the bar (which I of course failed to clear, along with pretty much everyone else I knew). The teachers and program could not have been a stronger advocate for abstinence without violating their responsibility to give us full information about sex.

On a related note, my dad told me I couldn't get my driver's license until I drove the serpentine northeast leg of the Beltway at rush hour in the dark during a rainstorm with him in the passenger seat. He made me do it, too. He taught me everything I know about defensive driving and how to drive aggressively in the city, so as not to get overwhelmed and bullied by other drivers.

But he also told me that he'd kill me (figuratively) if he found out that I was EVER driving through DC for fun before I was out of high school. He was teaching me so I had the information throughout my life -- not as an endorsement for next week.

Teenagers can make the distinction between information and endorsement. I have yet know of any pregnant teen (past or present) who can say, "I was going to completely abstain but sex ed taught me how to use a condom, so I figured what the hell..."

[Mooka]

It's no stretch at all. Look at our physiology. As a mammal, our natural reproductive years begin at about age 13 and end (for women) at around age 50.

Your body is pre-programmed to be ready for sexual activity and child bearing before you can legally drive a car.

So yes, abstinence is an unnatural state.

~Bang

We should just go Brave New World style.

Casual sex as routine as a cup of coffee. :hump:

Of course we'd need to do the whole genetic engineering with the human race thingy.

[ljs]

At least she didn't, like, come off sounding, like, stupid.

maybe that's why I think all teenagers sound...like...stupid.

[Larry]

I've read 'proposed' legislation calling for reparations,a draft,and classes and permits for all gun owners...Don't mean much though does it?

If you visit the link I gave it gives the legal requirements for what defines abstinence only requirements are...real laws:)

The link you gave, to an abstinence-only advocacy site, states that they discuss contraceptives exclusively in terms of their failure rate.

It also contains such nuggets of factual information as

The primary purpose of comprehensive sex education is to promote contraceptive use—particularly condom use—among teens.

(their emphasis.)

In fact, the portion of their web site which you quoted, says that what they say about condoms is that they won't tell kids how to use them, and their lesson is that according to the CDC, they aren't 100% guaranteed effective. (Against everything.)

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

maybe that's why I think all teenagers sound...like...stupid.

Thank god I turn 20 in 3 months :whew:

[TheGoodBits]

Thank god I turn 20 in 3 months :whew:

It like totally won't like help.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

Thank god I turn 20 in 3 months :whew:

Enjoy your last 3 months of sounding stupid then