CNN.com article- Bristol Palin: Abstinence for all teens 'not realistic'

[twa]

Meh, it's also possible that in your study a lot of people crossed state lines to have an abortion. In fact, for anonymity's sake, I would guess a fair number get their teen abortions fairly distant from home.

Possible, but why?...unlike your area,you gotta drive a ways to get out of Texas from most metro areas;)

As Bang has said we clearly need better numbers/comparisons,it would be nice to see if the rates of pregnancies declined or increased in the same area over the same period.

[Burgold]

Mostly b/c in your town there is a better chance that someone will know you and find out you went to this abortion center... and there still is a negative stigma to an abortion, probably even moreso in an abstinence only state.

But, while it's a validity threat, I'd bet the percentage is pretty low and most choose to have it in-state. Still, it would be a useful data point to collect. The location of subjects home town should be factored in. It may add to the clarity of th picture you are looking at more than the location of the clinic, center, or doctor's office.

[Hubbs]

Well, here's a Top 10 list for teen pregnancy. Seems to cover most of the abstinence-only states.

http://womensissues.about.com/od/datingandsex/a/TeenPregStates.htm

It is also the states with large hispanic populations which are a factor;)

A study of the trends in those states over the same period might help,rather than rankings per capita.

Are you saying that demographics play a role with teen pregnancy, bit not abortion?

[twa]

Are you saying that demographics play a role with teen pregnancy, bit not abortion?

Certainly not, there are obvious variables with demographics,that is why area trends are more important than overall ones.

A side by side study of these same states pregnancy rates during the same period would help determine if it is simply abortions being reduced or more having kids.

Reducing the abortion rate is good,but teen pregnancies also need to come down to show effectiveness.

Abstinence programs have shown to delay the start of sexual activity,which is great,but we need better numbers to get a true picture of overall benefits/uselessness.

[81artmonk]

Huh, funny, how everytime it's used it has a 100% success rate. Better than and condom or pill.

It's not realistic becuase self-control and not putting yourself in those situations isn't something teens like to hear or be taught.

We've become....agiain the "if it feels good do it" generation. However, who pays the price for our kids IRRESPONSIBILITY?? The child.

[MurrayH81]

Huh, funny, how everytime it's used it has a 100% success rate. Better than and condom or pill.

It's not realistic becuase self-control and not putting yourself in those situations isn't something teens like to hear or be taught.

We've become....agiain the "if it feels good do it" generation. However, who pays the price for our kids IRRESPONSIBILITY?? The child.

Well generally, its only the female child stuck with the price of irresponsibility, which is why much of our society feels it is totally acceptable to do things like we do, because it is "that little tramp's fault that she is pregnant" and "How dare you imply my boy had anything to do with that "s..t".

Note, that isn't the way I think, but it seems like the (largely) unconscious mechansim used in our society.

I have always claimed that if "males" had as serious a consequence to sex, that this would not be an issue as abortions would be so ubiquitous as to be offered on a drive-through basis.

[Stophovr6]

Huh, funny, how everytime it's used it has a 100% success rate.

What about the Virgin Mary? I think it's more like 99.9%.

[twa]

I have always claimed that if "males" had as serious a consequence to sex, that this would not be an issue as abortions would be so ubiquitous as to be offered on a drive-through basis.

You may be right,many males I know are irresponsible as hell.

Don't make abortion or their irresponsibility right though.

[mjah]

It's not realistic becuase self-control and not putting yourself in those situations isn't something teens like to hear or be taught.

More fundamentally, it's not realistic for a very powerful reason:

--> Expecting uniformly rational behavior from any group of humans under the influence of raging hormones is the very height of stupidity.

We've become....agiain the "if it feels good do it" generation. However, who pays the price for our kids IRRESPONSIBILITY?? The child.

This our-generation-vs.-previous-generations angle has little to do with it. Teen pregnancy has been an issue for every generation on record.

Fact is, we are biologically programmed to want to reproduce starting at the age when we're physically capable of accomplishing it. Even the oppressive social culture surrounding women 50, 100, 200, etc. years ago didn't prevent young girls from getting knocked up with some frequency (although no statistics are available, AFAIK).

Expecting uniformly rational behavior from young teenagers just isn't smart. Best to teach abstinence first, reaching that subset who can keep it in their pants; birth control and STD protection second, for those who can't keep it in their pants but happen to be at least minimally intelligent; and finally, realize that a certain small percentage of teens are going to become young parents no matter what you do. No amount of finger-wagging or lecturing will ever get through their hormone-fired filter.

I agree 100% that the child often bears an unfair burden for the sins of the parents. Of course, that's often true when older but still-irresponsible people have kids. Not just a youth-only problem.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

What about the Virgin Mary? I think it's more like 99.9%.

.9 repeating is equal to 1.

:paranoid:

[techboy]

.9 repeating is equal to 1.

:paranoid:

That's true, but .9 repeating would require an infinite number of people to make up the numerator, and there have not been that many.

[81artmonk]

More fundamentally, it's not realistic for a very powerful reason:

--> Expecting uniformly rational behavior from any group of humans under the influence of raging hormones is the very height of stupidity.

This is very true. However that falls to thier upbringing. I wanted to screw everything that looked my way too, but the way I was brought up as a child and the morals I was given gave me the strength to know it was wrong and to not put myself in situations where I would have access to act upon them.

This our-generation-vs.-previous-generations angle has little to do with it. Teen pregnancy has been an issue for every generation on record.

True, but statistically it has grown larger from past to present.

Expecting uniformly rational behavior from young teenagers just isn't smart. Best to teach abstinence first, reaching that subset who can keep it in their pants; birth control and STD protection second, for those who can't keep it in their pants but happen to be at least minimally intelligent; and finally, realize that a certain small percentage of teens are going to become young parents no matter what you do. No amount of finger-wagging or lecturing will ever get through their hormone-fired filter.

I would agree 100% with you on this, which is amazing to say the least!!!!

But to say the teaching Abstinence is foolish or not realistic is ignorant.

I think it falls to the parents. Kids are ignorant and have no clue! (some kids as you say are going to do it no matter what regardless of upbringing) I have my brother-in-law and his wife who have a daughter. When ever the topic is brought up, both are of the mind-set that they would rather her not be sexually active, but they can't stop her and if she is active in high school than they at least want her to be responsible.

When the issue of why not teach her now that it isn't ok until marriage and she should wait, they get angry and say that's just not realistic. Persoanlly, I think that is the kind of parenting that causes this problem.

I don't want to bible thump as many of you have accused, but the bible says,

"bring up a child in the way he/she should go and when he is older he/she will not depart from it"

I think that is sound advice, and on the whole works most of the time. There will be exceptions of course. IMO most parents don't believe in that kind of parenting. Or are absent parents. Their life is too busy to worry about what their kids are doing, and I think that contributes to this problem as well.

I agree 100% that the child often bears an unfair burden for the sins of the parents. Of course, that's often true when older but still-irresponsible people have kids. Not just a youth-only problem.

Wow again we agree. I've always found it amazing that people say they have the right to use their bodies how they see fit. If they want to have sex whenever and with who ever they want it's their right!!

But when the consequence is a child, how than can you say you have a right to skirt your responsibility by having an abortion when you participated in an activity that they KNEW what the outcome COULD be??

Where else in our society/life can we participate in something that can affect another life and choose to get out of that responsibility scott free by calling it our right other than with abortion??

[MurrayH81]

Where else in our society/life can we participate in something that can affect another life and choose to get out of that responsibility scott free by calling it our right other than with abortion??

1. Being a politician

2. Being a large corporation

[mjah]

True, but statistically it has grown larger from past to present.

Has it? I'd love to see hard numbers on that. As far as I know, any rates on teen pregnancy from 50+ years ago are complete guesses. :whoknows:

But to say the teaching Abstinence is foolish or not realistic is ignorant.

Agreed. Teaching abstinence is a very good idea. Teaching abstinence-only is the problem.

1. Being a politician

2. Being a large corporation

3. Being a religion :poke:

[jnhay]

perhaps she was coached not to talk about contraceptives

If she was coached, hopefully she wouldn't have said "like" so many times.

[NoCalMike]

Yeah I think the biggest missed issue in all of this is not abortion itself, it's Teen pregnancy. Teen pregnancy is what needs to be stopped/slowed down.

If Teens stop getting pregnant in the first place, then the option of abortion never crosses reality.

Abortion foes might see dropping abortion numbers as a victory, but at the same time, how is it any better that more teens are having babies as teenagers? How is that a better situation?

Teen pregnancy itself is what is alarming, and the fact that people still exist that think abstinence-only education is the answer.

[mjah]

Teen pregnancy itself is what is alarming

You'd think most abortion foes would be heavily in favor of improving the availability of, and education about, contraception. That's potentially the easiest way to instantly take a chunk out of the abortion rates.

I don't know how much overlap is in that particular Venn diagram. Apart from the folks who oppose contraception because they think it's against God's plan, in a perfectly rational world (ha) the overlap ought to be near-total.

[Burgold]

You'd think most abortion foes would be heavily in favor of improving the availability of, and education about, contraception. That's potentially the easiest way to instantly take a chunk out of the abortion rates.

I don't know how much overlap is in that particular Venn diagram. Apart from the folks who oppose contraception because they think it's against God's plan, in a perfectly rational world (ha) the overlap ought to be near-total.

You'd think so although I can totally understand a hiarchy which puts abstinence way at the top of the list........................................... and then a big gap before you get to contraception and then another huge gap before you finally get (to abortion/adoption/raising the kid)

['Skins_&_'Stons]

ABC

Abstinence

Be faithful

use Condoms

Ass is boss

BJs can't get you preggo

Can I have a BJ & then some sodomy?

[twa]

You pitching or catching?... Not that theres

Burgold, I think most abstinence only supporters agree with that,but instead it is demonized as anti contraceptive and useless....and of course the extremists.

The goal as I understand it is to demonstrate it's effectiveness and the hazards of relying on contraceptives...not unlike drinking or drug programs where you also don't encourage usage.

[Burgold]

You pitching or catching?... Not that theres

Burgold, I think most abstinence only supporters agree with that,but instead it is demonized as anti contraceptive and useless....and of course the extremists.

The goal as I understand it is to demonstrate it's effectiveness and the hazards of relying on contraceptives...not unlike drinking or drug programs where you also don't encourage usage.

Then it could be a semantic problem. When I hear ____________ only, sometimes I take it literally. I guess abstinence only has a better ring to it than abstinence primarily though...

[RabidFan]

Can she like, say "like" more?