Smoot Point Really Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Actually, IIR, what he "asked" was "I'm a plumber (true), and my boss is thinking about retiring (false), and I'm thinking about buying the business (false). Why should I do that if you're going to raise my taxes (false)?" In short, he didn't ask a question. He told a lie with a question mark on the end of it. And this is, according to you, a "moment of truth, not politics". It was a staged lie. And after the lie's been exposed, you still want to claim that it's some shining moment of Real American Honesty. Because, while it was a complete fabrication, it does fit with the fictional talking point which your chosen political party wants to push. First, show me the link where his boss claims they never spoke about him thinking of retiring... Or that the "plumber" didn't get the idea that one day soon, the boss would retire? You claim that was false... I'm not saying you are wrong, it's just that I haven't seen the same information that you have. Secondly, how can you also claim it's false that he wasn't also thinking of buying the business? Even still, it could've been a totally HYPOTHETICAL question without being a lie... How can you prove that someone isn't "thinking" of doing something? Even if it would be impossible for him to do, what's wrong with thinking about doing it and asking the man running for President what the impact of his policies will be on his decision? Thirdly, I said it was a moment of truth because Obama didn't read his answer off a teleprompter. I can't say with any certainty whether or not the "plumber" was telling the truth or not... However, it was a revelation into the mind of Obama... For months, conservatives had been saying Obama was a socialist... For many, Obama confirmed this with his answer. Of course, attacking the plumber for lying is far easier than defending Obama's response. And you called me the "KoolAid-drinker"... Hopefully, our next disagreement will be more amicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 So you lose elections to freaks, weirdos, and old comedians - and that is supposed to prove your party is not in trouble? So... the problem is with the people who voted AGAINST the freaks, not the people who voted FOR the freaks? Interesting logic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 So... the problem is with the people who voted AGAINST the freaks, not the people who voted FOR the freaks? Interesting logic... "Maybe" the problem is that personal-destruction politics and utter incompetence at the highest levels of government have lowered the bar... ...to the point where known "freaks" can now make a successful run at national office in the first place. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 So... the problem is with the people who voted AGAINST the freaks, not the people who voted FOR the freaks? Interesting logic... The logic is simple. The people would rather vote for freaks and comedians than vote for Republican politicians. And you don't get that is a reflection on your party? Typical. Blame the voters. It's obviously THEIR problem. And this is why your party is failing. People will obviously take ANYTHING before a GOP politician. In this country, people speak with their vote. Whether or not you listen determines the level of ignorance. Over the last few years the people have spoken rather emphatically against the policies and direction of the Republican party. and your response? They must be STUPID. You guys just plain don't get it. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Secondly, how can you also claim it's false that he wasn't also thinking of buying the business? Even still, it could've been a totally HYPOTHETICAL question without being a lie... How can you prove that someone isn't "thinking" of doing something? Even if it would be impossible for him to do, what's wrong with thinking about doing it and asking the man running for President what the impact of his policies will be on his decision? Wow, you're right. Just because my total net worth right now is around $50K, and I'm unemployed, doesn't prove that I'm not thinking about buying every house on my block and becoming a Real Estate Barron. Here's some easily proven facts: Obama's tax plan raised taxes on people making over $100K a year. And no one else. (And, since some kinds of businesses are treated as individuals for tax purposes, it would also raise taxes on businesses which make a taxable profit of over $100K/year. And no other businesses.) There are lots of factors involved, but I think everybody here will agree that a business that generates $100K in taxable profit a year is worth at least $500K. Joe the Plumber doesn't have $500K. He doesn't have $50K. He isn't going to have $50K. (Unless a GOP donor gives him Big Bucks for being a sock puppet.) In short, Joe the Plumber, barring, say, winning a lottery, will never own a business that makes enough money to have his taxes raised by Obama's plan. (As stated. If you want to claim that Obama is going to raise taxes on people who he says he's not going to, then that's another matter. (I might even agree with you. Wouldn't be the first time a Politician did something he said he wouldn't do.)) To be even shorter: In order to attack Obama, the GOP intentionally lied about what he was proposing. They claimed that Obama was going to raise taxes on "small businesses". And it was true. If your definition of "small business" is "smaller than Wal-Mart". But they wanted people to think they were talking about, well, people like their local plumber. Yeah, Obama's tax plan is going to raise taxes on some small businesses. But you'll have to look hard to find them. (Because businesses try real hard not to have $100K in taxable profits. Because most businesses who make $100K profits aren't run by stupid people who like giving their money to the government.) But the GOP doesn't want to find a real business who's taxes Obama's going to be raised. Because they know that if they hold up a real person who's going to be affected, a very large number of voters aren't going to sympathize with that guy. (You can argue about whether that's fair or not, but it's true.) The GOP wants people to think that it's going to affect "real people". (Obama's plan is going to affect real people. But the GOP doesn't want to attach those people to their message.) What they got was a liar to play the role. Somebody willing to stand in front of network TV cameras and say "He's going to tax me!" Even though it wasn't true. And what you're doing is trying to claim that the liar is some kind of hero because of his honesty. I'll repeat my previous statement: If the GOP wants to create an icon, some person to put a face on the story of "Obama raised my taxes", it would be to their great advantage to find someone where it's true. (Rather than trying to use a puppet. Especially a puppet who's already been exposed.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 So... the problem is with the people who voted AGAINST the freaks, not the people who voted FOR the freaks? Interesting logic... "Maybe" the problem is that personal-destruction politics and utter incompetence at the highest levels of government have lowered the bar... ...to the point where known "freaks" can now make a successful run at national office in the first place. Hmm. mjah, Do you really want to claim that when a Political Party wins some elections, then that somehow proves that the winning Party is somehow more Right then the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Do you really want to claim that when a Political Party wins some elections, then that somehow proves that the winning Party is somehow more Right then the other? I'm not claiming that at all, Larry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'm not claiming that at all, Larry. Sorry. I thought this thread within this thread got started with something along the lines of "But the fact that the D's won these latest elections proves that Ds are better than Rs." But I go back through the thread, and I don't see anything I can point to and say "There. There's where it is." Must have just psychically inferred it, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I guess his 15 minutes of fame are up. Joe the Author, Plumbing New Lows in Interest By Paul Farhi Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, February 26, 2009; Page C01 Joe the Plumber (no longer a plumber; first name actually Samuel) popped into our town yesterday evening to sell his new book and to remind people that he's still a plain and simple guy. Mission accomplished, on at least one of his missions. About 11 people wandered into the rows of seats set up hopefully in the basement of a downtown Border's bookstore to hear Joe speak. Joe addressed them from behind a lectern and with a microphone, but that seemed unnecessarily formal. If you've already forgotten "Joe" Wurzelbacher, 35, of Toledo, Ohio, it just goes to show you how ephemeral the life of a plain-speaking, Republican Everyman is these days. Click on the link for the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 That's a shame. I heard he had organized an exploratory committee to see how he would fare as a Presidential candidate in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hold on, hold on! Let’s not throw a senior GOP adviser under the bus so fast and claim his time is up. He is in fact participating in the Conservative Political Action Conference right now, which is a pretty large GOP event. He is even a headliner for a panel discussion one night called “Conservatism 2.0”. Joe’s time is not up yet! “Plumber is king for a day at CPAC” http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19383.html The Conservative Political Action Conference may not have A-list Govs. Sarah Palin (R-Alaska) or Bobby Jindal (R-La.) this year, but it has Samuel Wurzelbacher. Wurzelbacher, better known as "Joe the Plumber," is getting the rock-star treatment at CPAC, mobbed by attendees seeking autographs, handshakes and photos. "Oh my god, there he is," one flustered young woman shouted, holding her hand over her mouth upon spotting the McCain campaign icon. "I love this guy," a middle-aged man said as he put his arm around Wurzelbacher to pose for a picture. CPAC, a blend of movement and politics, plays host to heavyweight Republican pols, conservative policy wonks, fringe groups and numerous other organizations and interests. It's hard to tell where Wurzelbacher fits into this mix, but he undoubtedly does. Wurzelbacher has no formal role at the conference other than as a headliner at a Thursday panel titled "conservatism 2.0" held by the conservative blogging outfit Pajamas TV. Unlike other marquee CPAC speakers, after giving his presentation, Wurzelbacher hasn't disappeared. Rather, he is ducking in and out of panel discussions and speeches. On Thursday afternoon, former Gov. Mike Huckabee (R-Ark.) was speaking to a small gathering of reporters behind a curtain after his book signing. As Huckabee was answering a question about Palin's decision to drop out of the conference, Wurzelbacher burst through the curtain, apparently having heard Huckabee was there. "Man, this CPAC thing is crazy," Wurzelbacher said to Huckabee as the two shook hands. "Hey Joe, good to see you," Huckabee responded. After briefly speaking about Wurzelbacher's recent trip to the Middle East, conscious the nearby television camera from NBC, Huckabee announced he had a plane to catch. "Hey, great seeing you, Mike," Wurzelbacher said. "Say hi to your dad for me," Huckabee responded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'm waiting for Vivid Video to offer "Joe" a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoot Point Really Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'll take Samuel W over Pelosi, Frank, Reid, and the first 30+ days of this current administration. Much of what has gone on has defied common sense, and we're supposed to feel as though "Joe the Plumber" is someone who should be looked down upon? I'm giving it 100 days, but the first 3rd of that have sucked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'll take Samuel W over Pelosi, Frank, Reid, and the first 30+ days of this current administration. Okay, that's a bunch of idiots in Congress you've named there. As if 99% of all people on both sides of the aisle in Congress aren't already known to be worthless sheep. But there's one person you didn't name. Would you take Joe The Not A Plumber over Barack Obama? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'm giving it 100 days, but the first 3rd of that have sucked... How? How have they sucked? We haven't seen one iota of a result yet. The first 30 days of this admin have been no different than the previous 30 months, which you were apparently in favor of. I'm not a bail-out supporter but your statement was just ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hold on, hold on! Let’s not throw a senior GOP adviser under the bus so fast and claim his time is up. He is in fact participating in the Conservative Political Action Conference right now, which is a pretty large GOP event. He is even a headliner for a panel discussion one night called “Conservatism 2.0”. Joe’s time is not up yet! He also said he was running for congress in 6 years. Smoot Point might just get his wish. Joe is a cancer than will not go away. I bet he's going to be out in 2012 campaigning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 the guy wrote a book too, have to hand it to him, he is squeezing as much as he can out of the Republicans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I'll take Samuel W over Pelosi, Frank, Reid, and the first 30+ days of this current administration.Much of what has gone on has defied common sense, and we're supposed to feel as though "Joe the Plumber" is someone who should be looked down upon? I'm giving it 100 days, but the first 3rd of that have sucked... You should just give it up, SPR. Your ongoing attempts to appear as anything other than heavily partisan (I'll pull up short of full-blown "hackery" for benefit of the doubt) are pretty much futile, IMO. They have been since the campaign, when I remember using the “lipstick on a pig” line on your efforts to do the same then, after not having tried to hide it all before that time. I noticed you took a break from the political threads, and I do saltue anyone who does that--plus I think you're pretty much a good guy, not that it matters. Your posts indicate that you are not "giving him 100 days" despite your repeating that comment, and along with your history it makes the claim seem like a pretty obvious misrepresentation of your real outlook. I basically can't stand Pelosi or Reid, overall, but the ongoing cluster**** circus that is the GOP and it's cheerleaders are no more palatable (to generalize). Anyone who thinks Joe is some reasoned common-sense fellow is painting a picture of where their head is at, and it isn't a very validating landscape. Evidence on a variety of relevant matters indicates he’s a partisan (if ever sincere) con-man with all the integrity of a hyena. So maybe he is a perfect spokesman for a major political party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 whats the difference between joe the plumber and octomom? both created by the media both arent exactly rocket scientists both make stupid mistakes constantly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcoles11 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 this guy needs to go back to fixing toilets he can't even do that, he's not licenced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 whats the difference between joe the plumber and octomom? Octomom's tubes work every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 octomom's tubes work every time. hi-yoooooooo!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Hold on, hold on! Let’s not throw a senior GOP adviser under the bus so fast and claim his time is up. He is in fact participating in the Conservative Political Action Conference right now, which is a pretty large GOP event. He is even a headliner for a panel discussion one night called “Conservatism 2.0”. Joe’s time is not up yet! “Plumber is king for a day at CPAC” http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/19383.html Looks like the Conservative Political Action Conference was not only featuring a plumber, but a 13 year old. 13 Year Old Speaks at Conservative Political Action Conference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjah Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Looks like the Conservative Political Action Conference was not only featuring a plumber, but a 13 year old.13 Year Old Speaks at Conservative Political Action Conference I imagine that kid gets beaten up constantly. But from listening to what he saying, he appears to get a couple of things that my neighbor Racist Bill doesn't. Not bad for a 13 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I imagine that kid gets beaten up constantly. oh yeah... wow, I feel bad for myself for talking about politics at 21... at 13? I genuinely feel bad for that kid,. On the other hand he has a promising career in sophistry, so I guess he doesn't have to worry about being a productive member of society down the line. Does it seem like the GOP is just getting closer and closer to to falling off the edge of sanity... Rush Limbaugh, 13 year olds, Republican rappers, Joe Plumber, it just seems like a sideshow at a carnival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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