Redskins Diehard Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 duplicate post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Jew here. I analyze foreign policy as an American. If it's American interests vs. Israel's, America wins ten times out of ten. I'd even throw in an eleventh for good measure. Not even close.However, I also analyze statements like 'crookedest country' or 'second crookedest country' as a Jew. I analyze the fact that Israel is under the biggest microscope in the history of the world ... that they are scrutinized and criticized in a way that much more powerful and populous nations who deal with ethnic and cultural discord ... nations like China and Russia and even the UK, are not. In a way that nations who butcher their own people by the millions are not. I am not an Israeli. I don't ever plan on visiting Israel. I don't have any special love for the place. But I do see how they are looked upon by the rest of the world. And sometimes it's downright scary. The "second crookedest country" comment was not meant seriously...should have figured the appropriate "smiley" to indicate as such. I certainly do not think Israel falls in the top half of "crooked" countries...just don't think that their interests and our interests match all, or even most, of the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Doesnt it make sense to go along with Israel since they are our biggest and pretty much only ally in that region? I dont think Bush got off a podium to speak with him..and I have never heard of any President doing something like that. I think like techboy said this is Olmert playing up his countrymen and making himself seem like a badass.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 What leverage does Israel have over us? I don't understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 What leverage does Israel have over us? I don't understand this. Political contributions stateside? It isn't very hard to see that money talks in politics, with both sides of the aisle. To their credit, the Israeli's have built an absolutely awesome lobbying effort in DC that works both sides of the aisle, along with the institutions that support those sides. The day one side or the other seriously turns its back on Israel, or actually re-examines our relationship with Israel is the same day they lose quite a bit of money for campaigns. Again, there is nothing wrong with it, its simply how the system works here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 What leverage does Israel have over us? I don't understand this. they have the ark of covenant... im just saying..**** melts faces!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 they have the ark of covenant...im just saying..**** melts faces!! No they don't, you idiot. We have it, in Area 51, after we took it back from the Nazis. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMike619 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 No they don't, you idiot. We have it, in Area 51, after we took it back from the Nazis. Sheesh. 3 things... 1, I am NOT an idiot..im a dumbass!! get that right! 2, I stole your Mark Twain sig for my work email sig. and C, for real? them aliens be using the ark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Political contributions stateside? It isn't very hard to see that money talks in politics, with both sides of the aisle. To their credit, the Israeli's have built an absolutely awesome lobbying effort in DC that works both sides of the aisle, along with the institutions that support those sides. The day one side or the other seriously turns its back on Israel, or actually re-examines our relationship with Israel is the same day they lose quite a bit of money for campaigns. Again, there is nothing wrong with it, its simply how the system works here So, do you think if someone (like Bush or Obama) were to defy Israel now that their party would be politically crushed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 and C, for real? them aliens be using the ark? You need to rewatch Raiders of the Lost Ark, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 So, do you think if someone (like Bush or Obama) were to defy Israel now that their party would be politically crushed? Yup. You just saw the Senate Democrats push through a non binding resolution last week supporting the offensive. And its been quite clear the Republican position on the conflict the last 8 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Yup.You just saw the Senate Democrats push through a non binding resolution last week supporting the offensive. And its been quite clear the Republican position on the conflict the last 8 years Hmm... I see that THEY might think that, but do you really think a party couldn't get through defying Israel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Yup.You just saw the Senate Democrats push through a non binding resolution last week supporting the offensive. And its been quite clear the Republican position on the conflict the last 8 years Ya think it might be because they actually agree with Israels actions instead? Hardly surprising most congress members don't approve of terrorism and do support a nations right to defend itself. I do agree there is too much foreign money in our politics though(from a number of countries) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Hmm... I see that THEY might think that, but do you really think a party couldn't get through defying Israel? Agree with SHF but I don't think it's totally driven by money. It's also opinion. Many Americans view the issue as black and white. You are either pro Israel or anti Israel. If you support every move Israel makes and in fact do not think they are extreme enough, then you are pro Israel. If you support peace talks such as happened a year or two ago between Israel and several other Arab nations, then you basically support the raping of Israel to use the Washington Times' analogy. I'm not talking about Jews here (more likely orthodox Jews would agree with this stuff I suppose) but also certain influential leaders of the evangelical Christian right, which is huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I would LOVE to see this claim sourced. I'm being lazy and really quick (didn't read the article, but with three key words google came up with this) Israeli technology powers FBI's counter-terrorism data system ...... Bureau of Investigation, enhancing the government's ability to thwart terrorist attacks. ... To power the new program, called the "Terrorism and Intelligence Data Information Sharing .... 'Electronic detective' aids fraud investigations · Israeli counter-terrorism experts teams up with U.S. cyber- security firm ... and this... US-Israeli PartnershipTo power the new program, called the "Terrorism and Intelligence Data Information Sharing ... U.S. APPROVES MILITARY AID AND GUARANTEES FOR ISRAEL (3/ 20) ... www.nclci.org/News/usisraeli_partnership.htm - 83k - Cached - Similar pages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Agree with SHF but I don't think it's totally driven by money. It's also opinion. Many Americans view the issue as black and white. You are either pro Israel or anti Israel. If you support every move Israel makes and in fact do not think they are extreme enough, then you are pro Israel. If you support peace talks such as happened a year or two ago between Israel and several other Arab nations, then you basically support the raping of Israel to use the Washington Times' analogy. I'm not talking about Jews here (more likely orthodox Jews would agree with this stuff I suppose) but also certain influential leaders of the evangelical Christian right, which is huge. Exactly. The evangelical Christian right pushes it within the Republican ranks The AIPAC and Hollywood money in Democratic ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I'm being lazy and really quick (didn't read the article, but with three key words google came up with this)Israeli technology powers FBI's counter-terrorism data system ...... Bureau of Investigation, enhancing the government's ability to thwart terrorist attacks. ... To power the new program, called the "Terrorism and Intelligence Data Information Sharing .... 'Electronic detective' aids fraud investigations · Israeli counter-terrorism experts teams up with U.S. cyber- security firm ... and this... US-Israeli PartnershipTo power the new program, called the "Terrorism and Intelligence Data Information Sharing ... U.S. APPROVES MILITARY AID AND GUARANTEES FOR ISRAEL (3/ 20) ... www.nclci.org/News/usisraeli_partnership.htm - 83k - Cached - Similar pages Wow, the National Christian Leadership Conference for Israel...I'm not sure that source meets the threshold for "objective"...end even if everything is true to claim that there SELLING technology to us is somehow sharing their intel and saving our lives is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. I'd also suggest you read the whole article as it briefly mentions the Israelis selling technology to the Chinese as well....against our wishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 What leverage does Israel have over us? I don't understand this. The leverage of a friend? I have no problem with this action if true. If your about to do something and a friend comes to you and begs you to not do it (and it doesn't really cause you any harm in not doing it), I'd back my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Why should I read the whole article when I haven't read any of it other than the google synopsis? I seem not to have copied far enough to get the link on the first one. Sorry about that. I believe there has been wide and ongoing intel cooperation between the states and that has been beneficial to us. These are two quick glimpses, but unfortunately, often with intel we don't know the "exacts" who, what and where's because we don't want them to know what we know or how we got it, or how we figured it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 As far as being loyal to your friend and ally. There is a difference between friendship and being someones *****. And if this is true then Bush made a ***** move. As far as sharing intel. Doesn't our support play a huge part in the very existence of Israel? And shouldn't simple support be enough for them to share their intel? And don't we need to know that intel to make our support work? I think SHF's explanation makes the most sense. Money and power rules all. But that's pretty much selling out your country for selfish reasons. But like SHF said, that's just the nature of the beast unfortunately. I don't know enough to really say what's right or wrong. Just stating my impressions of the thoeries being presented here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 America loses more than it gains by it's relationship to Israel. I don't think it should be severed, but it shouldn't stay the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird_1972 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 america loses more than it gains by it's relationship to israel. I don't think it should be severed, but it shouldn't stay the way it is. qft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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