WP: McCain Camp Sees An Insult in a Saying

[Smoot Point Really]

Do you remember your excellent thread of this morning or last night... well, you just answered your own question.

A bit off-topic. Anyway... I think one of us missed the point of that thread. It was a good thread, and I would've liked to hear you express your opinion on it.

[Smoot Point Really]

"SHUT UP AND ACCEPT OUR CANDIDATES, LIBERALS!"

That is pretty much all I got from your post.

Dems should've picked HRC... I wonder if Biden will step aside and HRC will come to the rescue of the party.

[luckydevil]

So amusing.

It's all a game, play hard or go home.

[Baculus]

The story last week (less than a week after becoming the VP nominee) became why Palin wouldnt talk to the press.

They were interested in issues, they were interested in smearing her. They were and are pissed off because McCain and the GOP had the audicity to not give them the heads up or ability to vett (I have no idea how to spell this) her themselves and create their own narrative.

In smearing her? How? By raising issues about her background? By wondering why the McCain press was hostile to any sort of questioning on a new, sudden candidate?

Or, do you mean, like in Obama's case, calling him a communist, a muslim extremist, a terrorist-sympathizer, a homosexual, a crack head, a communist muslim, a muslim communist, etc...You mean like that? Have you been oblivious to the attacks that have been launched against others - and I mean really personal attacks, and not just ones wondering why she spent money on travel expenses.

If anything, for the first week, the media had a love affair with Palin, who is good press.

And non-stories like the suggestion that Palin's latest son is really her grandson were quickly sniffed out for being bogus and dropped.

I don't think you have even seen the depths of personal attacks that really could be launched against Palin, because if we followed the likes of the right-wing, then it would get really, really nasty.

The media tends to follow its own path when a person is silent to the media. This ain't new: It happens with EVERYONE, when the person of focus is tight-lipped and silent. And especially when the person of focus is running for high elected office.

And you are part of the problem IF you think that such vitriol and hatred is one sided. MoveOn, DailyKos, Huffington, ALL of MSNBC now are all spewing lies hatred and vitriol 24/7 towards the GOP.

I certainly do not think it is one sided, but please demonstrate these "lies hatred and vitriol." Can you produce any such examples? And please do not post articles that are merely inquiries to be expect of any news agencies.

I am not a fan of Moveon, but I went to their site where the have a "Palin FAQ":

http://pol.moveon.org/emails/palin_announcement.html?rc=homepage

It definitely has the tone of an organization that opposes the McCain ticket, but I am not sure if it is full of hate. And MSNBC's site barely mentions Gov. Palin, except for her "action figure."

I don't read KOS, and occasionally glance at Huffington Post, but I am sure they have some articles with an anti-Palin slant.

Here is what KOS has to say om its front page

"The Truth About Those Scary Earmarks"

"McCain Once Blamed Palin's Bridge for the MN Collapse"

"McCain/Palin: Putting Japan First"

Definitely articles with a political spin...but hate and vitriol? I am not sure about that.

Huffington Post is such a busily-designed (read: poorly designed) that headlines scream from everywhere. Today it leads with "BACKLASH: GUTTER POLITICS," which is pretty much discussing the topic at hand. Other then that, I see headlines such as "ABC: McCain's 'Truth Squad... Full Of Half-Truths'... ," "MSNBC: Evidence Palin, McCain Not Telling Truth About Bridge To Nowhere...," "Rebranding Slick Sarah, the Make-Believe Maverick," "Washington Post Exclusive: Palin Billed State for Nights Spent at Home," and "Judge Warned Palin: Stop Harassing Trooper, Like "Child Abuse."

I can see one or two of the OP-ED pieces having a bit of vitriol and hyperbole, for sure, but more so relates to the issue of what we're discussing.

"The McCain-Palin Lies and the Neil Armstrong Principle: The media have an obligation to point out when a politician is lying about a matter of fact, but the right-wing attack machine has so cowed some of them you can almost hear them moo."

"Impeach McCain/Palin: What McCain/Palin are doing is as ugly as anything in 1984, and as reptilian as any propaganda spewed around the world by authoritarian governments of the left or the right."

I dont want the press to go away. But the left absolutely wants to silence the media that disagrees with them. And they proudly state that in campaigns.

I just want the media to be fair, or when they aare editrializing, to not pretend to be something else.

To some folks, most of the press seems to be "the Left." Look at the number of times "liberal," "Left," and "Liberal Left" is used to describe the press, especially here on ES Tailgate and by those who consider themselves to be right-wing.

After all, the idea of a free press is a traditional liberal notion. So when disgust is felt for liberals, no wonder it goes hand-in-hand with a disgust for a liberal notion such as the First Amendment and freedom of the press.

I certainly do not care for much of Fox New's reporting, but I realize that freedom is a double-edged sword. Sometimes what we wield as a power weapon can also be used to cut us back.

Let me conclude with this: I DO think some on the Left or Democrats do feel spite towards Palin. I think they feel it undercuts an issue that is important to them, and that the Palin pick is a fake or a fraud. I think THAT is where some of the bitterness towards Palin originates.

I appreciate your reply to a very contentious issue. And sorry it was so long, but I wanted to give ensure I gave due respect to your own thoughts.

[Baculus]

Dems should've picked HRC... I wonder if Biden will step aside and HRC will come to the rescue of the party.

I know Obama is kicking himself in the arse. It was a stupid strategic move, partially based upon ego.

And Biden certainly was not the best choice, but, yeah, it would take a whole heaping of pride swallowing for that to happen.

[DRSmith]

There is two things I am wondering now regarding Obama, and his second verbal gaffe this week

If he studied law how good of a lawyer was he

Secondly how has he survived this long as a married man

[headexplode]

His talk of new politics is as empty as his campaign trail promises, and his record of bucking his party and reaching across the aisle simply doesn’t exist.”

It's ironic that the McCain campaign is using "his record of bucking his party and reaching across the aisle" as a compliment, being as that is exactly why conservative Republicans weren't too excited about him in the first place. After all, isn't he just a R.I.N.O.?

[Burgold]

I reject the idea that the "pig in lipstick" remark was even a gaffe.

A) It was part of his speeches for years before Palin came onto the scene

McCain used the same expression when talking about a woman's plans

C) Context and the understood traditional meaning of the cliche.

Anyone who thinks the pig in lipstick comment was a sexist attack against Palin is a blind partisan or a liar and probably both.

[DRSmith]

I reject the idea that the "pig in lipstick" remark was even a gaffe.

A) It was part of his speeches for years before Palin came onto the scene

McCain used the same expression when talking about a woman's plans

C) Context and the understood traditional meaning of the cliche.

Anyone who thinks the pig in lipstick comment was a sexist attack against Palin is a blind partisan or a liar and probably both.

It was a gaffe, even Dem stratigists have aknowledged after her speech last week she owns the whole lipstick thing, so as soon you mention lipstick you think of Palin

So if this had been a written speech, someone would have thought of that

[Burgold]

No, Obama has the right of it. He called this what it is. It is a diversion and it's bs. It's an attempt to get away from the issues and misrepresent someone and avoid taking on anything substantive or difficult. It's the easiest and worst part of politics.

[CheatorBeat]

I think Palin is lucky he didn't use my favorite version of that saying "polishing a turd"

[DRSmith]

No, Obama has the right of it. He called this what it is. It is a diversion and it's bs. It's an attempt to get away from the issues and misrepresent someone and avoid taking on anything substantive or difficult. It's the easiest and worst part of politics.

There are expressions we just tie in with people, like mispronouncing nuclear automatically makes one think of Bush

[Prosperity]

Press and Liberals to the GOP_ "SHUT UP AND ACT THE WAY WE WANT YOU TO ACT. AND DO THE THINGS WE WANT YOU TO DO!"

how about some dignity, and respect, if not for yourself then at least for our republic?

[Mordac]

I think DRSmith is a Canadian troll bent on the destruction of America in order to bring about glorious Canadian dominance of the entire Northern Hemisphere. He is scared to death that America will come to its senses, elect Barack Obama, socialize medicine, balance the federal budget, strengthen the dollar, enter into mutually beneficial strategic partnerships with other nations, defeat Al-Qaeda, restore the rule of law, become a beacon of hope and freedom in the world again, and dominate as the worlds last greatest superpower for the next 1,000 years.

He is desperate to somehow get America to vote for anyone but Obama in order to pursue his dreams of a Canada-led free world. Do not fall for his tricks!!

[Larry]

Yes. You can.

The Daily Kos for example has become a huge influence on the democratic party. Slimebucket operations set the tone for the left wing nutjobs that the democratic party panders to. Officially the party does not talk to or about them but they happily look the other way as websites like the Kos act as attack dogs.

You know this because Rush has told you so, every day for the last 10 years?

Tell ya what. Find me one person on this board who Kos has been "a huge influence" on.

[Oldskool]

You know this because Rush has told you so, every day for the last 10 years?

Tell ya what. Find me one person on this board who Kos has been "a huge influence" on.

I'm sorry but when Obama speaks at their own convention and Terry McAuliffe himself says that KOS speaks for a vital portion of the Democratic party, I'll go with that over your Limbaugh bashing. :2cents:

[Predicto]

Is there a single person on this board who honestly thinks that Obama actually was making a sexist comment with this "pig in lipstick" saying?

Is there a single person on this board who thinks that John McCain or Sarah Palin or anyone else associated with them honestly thinks that this was a sexist comment?

[MEANDWARF]

This would've been ignored if the "lipstick" line wasn't first used by Sarah Palin. It's all that moose-eating whore's fault!

Rev Wright is that you?

[GoSkins561]

Obama calling McCain a liar was a bigger mistake.

[Burgold]

Obama calling McCain a liar was a bigger mistake.

Maybe. It is a politically incorrect thing to do, but it's refreshing and if the McCain camp is saying that they are liars. It's as simple as that. A rose by any other name, you know.

[DjTj]

Is there a single person on this board who honestly thinks that Obama actually was making a sexist comment with this "pig in lipstick" saying?

Is there a single person on this board who thinks that John McCain or Sarah Palin or anyone else associated with them honestly thinks that this was a sexist comment?

I count at least five.

Even if this wasn't meant to be a slam against Palin....it's a poor choice of words for someone who wants to lead this country. He could have used a better analogy that wouldn't have drawn so much heat. Anything said about lipstick or anything feminine really, and then attached to an animal is naturally going to look like a slam against the female on the other side of the political table. Where the hell are Obama's PR people telling him not to make stupid comments like that?

1...

My only question is, if Obama is elected, how many World Leaders is he going to insult because he has a difficult time thinking off the "cuff".

Obama- Maaybbbeeee youuuu wwant sssome lllipstick on that pppppigg Mr Ambassador?

Mr Ambassador- That's not my pig, its my wife.

Leads to WWIII.

2...

Okay, Obama may have used the "lipstick on a pig" colloquialism before. But you'd think he, as well as his advisors, would stay away from the use of "lipstick" during any speech from here on out. They know full well how that will be percieved, so with that, while it may not be a direct insult to Palin, it was not used completely absent-mindedly IMO; just to stir the pot, as normal.

3...

I think more highly of Obama to think he "unintentionally" did this. If he did it unintentionally, he is stupid. If he did it intentionally, he's only guilty of "poor form". I got a chuckle out of the line, but part of me thought his "goose was cooked" when I heard it. Not sure if this is a "jump the shark" moment, but it definitely will be talked about the next 48 hours until someone else does something equally dumb.

4...

I suppose that its a matter of perspective. Obama supporters, especially on this board see nothing wrong with their candidate at all. Same goes with some McCain supporters here.

I see it from both sides. I see weaknesses, strengths, trends and things that flat out don't work. I said that it was a mistake for McCain to take this as an affront and it was a mistake for Obama to make the comment to begin with. If you honestly think that there was no forethought in that statement, there is little hope for you. Politics rarely is not calculated.

Some people just have myopic vision and can't see the truth.

5.

[Ignatius J.]

DjTj is very kind, either to his fellow posters, or to the breadth of the umbrella "honestly."

[Midnight Judges]

I count at least five.

1...2...3...4...5.

Two of those people at least were able to admit he wasn't referring to her. So I would count 3 people who have zero integrity.

[Predicto]

I count at least five.

1...2...3...4...5.

I asked for people that honestly thought that he intended to be sexist. Not "its a poor choice of words" or "his advisors should have told him" or whatever.

It's a hugely common political saying that both McCain and Obama use. It has NOTHING to do with women or Sarah Palin. This is total bull.

Any honest person on this board who opposes Obama should just acknowledge this and admit that they are enjoying the "controversy" solely because Obama has been put on the defensive.

[Midnight Judges]

If there's lipstick on a pig, it's this McCain ad

The story begins, like so many these days, with Gov. Sarah Palin’s speech at the Republican National Convention last week. Having stirred the crowd to its feet more than once, Palin delivered a knock-out line when she deadpanned:

“I love those hockey moms. You know the difference between a hockey mom and a pitbull? Lipstick.”

The line drew cheerful applause and has echoed ever since, which seems to explain how Sen. Barack Obama found himself in the middle of an uproar when he uttered a time-worn phrase to denigrate Sen. John McCain’s proclaimed agenda for “change” in Washington.

"John McCain says he's about change, too," Obama said. "And so I guess his whole angle is, 'Watch out, George Bush! Except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy, and Karl Rove-style politics, we're really going to shake things up in Washington.'"

"That's not change," Obama said. "That's just calling something the same thing something different. But you know, you can put lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it’s still going to stink after eight years. We’ve had enough of the same old thing."

Gasp! He just said lipstick! Did he just call Sarah Palin a pig??!!!

That’s the charge.

Later that day, the McCain campaign arranged a conference call for reporters with Jane Swift, the former governor of Massachusetts. She said that when you add up Obama’s comments and Palin’s comments, you get Obama calling Palin a pig. Swift said Obama should apologize.

“Calling a very prominent female governor of one of our states a ‘pig’ is not exactly what we want to see,” Swift said.

The issue has dominated the presidential campaign for two days, with the McCain campaign stirring a controversy by having local lawmakers call for Obama to apologize, and the Obama campaign responding with examples of how often he and others have used the phrase. The next day, Obama called the McCain’s campaign tactics “lies and phony outrage and Swift-boat politics.”

On Wednesday, the McCain campaign released a Web ad called “Lipstick.” It begins with a clip of Palin delivering her lipstick line, then text flashes on the screen saying “Barack Obama on: Sarah Palin.” A moment later, the ad plays a small portion of Obama’s “lipstick on a pig” remark, but not enough of his quotation to make clear what he was talking about. The ad concludes with a clip of CBS anchor Katie Couric soberly remarking on sexism on the campaign trail.

The ad has two big problems, as does the complaint of former Gov. Swift. First, in the full text of the remarks it’s clear that Obama isn’t talking about Sarah Palin. He’s talking about McCain’s argument that he represents change.

Second, “putting lipstick on a pig” is a popular put-down, especially among politicians. It generally means taking a bad or unattractive idea and trying to dress it up.

We’re weren’t able to pin down the origins of this folksy expression, but we found tons of instances of people using it . The political newspaper The Hill labeled the phrase “Congress Speak” back in June, and gave it an official definition: “an expression used to illustrate that something unattractive cannot be beautified or otherwise positively changed by any amount of makeup or other exterior alterations.”

In 1986, Texas Agricultural Commissioner Jim Hightower used the phrase to criticize Ronald Reagan’s farm policy. During the 2004 presidential campaign, both Dick Cheney and John Edwards used it to attack the other guy’s running mate. Earlier this year, Democratic Congresswoman Linda Sanchez of California gave a speech on trade policy. “You know the old saying about putting lipstick on a pig? Well, I smell bacon,” she groused.

Obama and McCain both have used the expression.

In September 2007, Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson quoted Obama using the phrase to discuss Iraq policy:

“I think that both General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker are capable people who have been given an impossible assignment,” Obama said. “George Bush has given a mission to General Petraeus, and he has done his best to try to figure out how to put lipstick on a pig.”

In Iowa on Oct. 11, 2007, McCain panned Sen. Hillary Clinton’s health care plan, calling it “eerily reminiscent” of the plan that failed during Bill Clinton’s administration, according to a report in the Chicago Tribune.

“I think they put some lipstick on a pig,” McCain said, “but it’s still a pig.”

On Feb. 1, 2007, McCain blasted a senate resolution that would have criticized President Bush’s strategy in Iraq. Some had praised the resolution as a compromise measure, but McCain disagreed. “It gets down to whether you support what is being done in this new strategy or you don’t,” McCain said. “You can put lipstick on a pig, [but] it’s still a pig, in my view.”

It is simply impossible to view the complete remarks by Obama and conclude that he’s making a veiled and unsavory reference to Palin. Her name never is used in the preceding sentence. In fact, it’s hard to see how one could interpret Obama’s lipstick-on-a-pig remark as referring directly to McCain, either. We think it’s very clear that Obama was saying McCain’s effort to call himself the “candidate of change” is like putting lipstick on a pig, trying to dress up a bad idea to look better. Agree or disagree with Obama’s point, but his remark wasn’t the smear that McCain’s people have tried to make it. If anyone’s doing any smearing, it’s the McCain campaign and its outrageous attempt to distort the facts. Did Obama call Palin a pig? No, and saying so is Pants on Fire wrong.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/706/