WP: McCain Camp Sees An Insult in a Saying

[DjTj]

I see it from both sides. I see weaknesses, strengths, trends and things that flat out don't work. I said that it was a mistake for McCain to take this as an affront and it was a mistake for Obama to make the comment to begin with. If you honestly think that there was no forethought in that statement, there is little hope for you. Politics rarely is not calculated.

I think you are wrong on this. Real life is rarely calculated to the degree that we suspect in hindsight. Sometimes things just happen without serious planning or forethought.

"Lipstick on a pig" is just an expression, and one that Obama has used previously in other situations. Here's the statement in context:

"John McCain says he is about change too, and so I guess his whole angle is: 'Watch out George Bush, except for economic policy, healthcare policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics, we're really going to shake things up in Washington.' That's not change. That's just calling the same thing something different.

"You can put lipstick on a pig," Obama said. "It's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still going to stink after eight years."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-campaign11-2008sep11,0,4703724.story

He's just using old expressions to convey his message that you can't just re-label something and expect it to change. If the lipstick comment was so calculated, what's the calculation in the old fish comment? Oh my god, he's saying that McCain is old! And Alaska has fish! For some reason, nobody's going crazy over those idioms...

Obama probably didn't put much thought into those statements at all. He probably just thought they were good analogies. Every word that comes out of the candidates' mouths is not a carefully scripted part of a secret campaign strategy. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[ccsl2]

I can't wait until the debates. Obama is gonna wipe the floor with McCain.

[Oldskool]

I think you are wrong on this.

Of course you do. :cool: Wouldn't have it any other way.

I still stand by my assertions.

[DjTj]

Of course you do. :cool: Wouldn't have it any other way.

I still stand by my assertions.

So do you also believe that Palin was using "community organizer" as a subtle racial epithet? I think everyone is trying to probe way too deeply into things and making too many assumptions.

On the flip side, was Trent Lott really saying he wanted segregation when he praised Strom Thurmond? Was George Allen really referencing a French Tunisian racial slur when he said "macaca"? Does President Bush purposefully mispronounce "nucular" and "misunderestimate" to try to relate better to the average American?

...I think politicians just screw up sometimes. There is no secret agenda behind every line that comes out of their mouths. Nobody can be that calculated.

[tizzod]

I can't believe how quickly Americans will jump on anything anymore that they are told is a controversy.

It's obvious anyone that thinks Obama said anything wrong did not read or listen to the quote. If they did, they are morons. Plain and simple.

This crap absolutely has to stop. If we really are becoming this dumb and hyper-sensitive as a country, we're finished.

[EersSkins05]

Burgold quoted:

Obama knocks press on 'made-up controversy'

"See, it would be funny, but the news media decided that would be the lead story yesterday. This happens every election cycle. Every four years, this is what we do. This is what they want to spend two of the last 55 days talking about...Enough!" he said.

Obama called the attacks "lies, outrage and swift boat politics."

"These are serious times and they call for a serious debate...spare me all the phony outrage. Spare me all the phony talk about change," he said.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...ntroversy.html

Statements like these are why I think Obama would be an excellent President.

[Oldskool]

So do you also believe that Palin was using "community organizer" as a subtle racial epithet? I think everyone is trying to probe way too deeply into things and making too many assumptions.

On the flip side, was Trent Lott really saying he wanted segregation when he praised Strom Thurmond? Was George Allen really referencing a French Tunisian racial slur when he said "macaca"? Does President Bush purposefully mispronounce "nucular" and "misunderestimate" to try to relate better to the average American?

...I think politicians just screw up sometimes. There is no secret agenda behind every line that comes out of their mouths. Nobody can be that calculated.

No, there was zero malice or racial overtones in the community organizer label. It was simply used as a basis to slam Obama's lack of experience.

As for the others, perhaps I should have made myself clearer. On the campaign trail, things like this are not off the cuff.

[DjTj]

No, there was zero malice or racial overtones in the community organizer label. It was simply used as a basis to slam Obama's lack of experience.

As for the others, perhaps I should have made myself clearer. On the campaign trail, things like this are not off the cuff.

What are "things like this"? Why isn't "community organizer" a "thing like this"? Who decides? Is Oldskool the decider?

The "macaca" incident happened on the campaign trail with George Allen. He had seen the kid at numerous other events. Do you think it was a calculated statement to try to appeal to anti-immigrant sympathies that backfired? Or was it just an extemporaneous statement that turned out to be a mistake?

[Kilmer17]

When Obama actually campaigns on something other than "Change" and "McCain is Bush 3" then and only then can he claim to be ready for serious debate and discussion.

I chuckle watching you lefties cry now about this crap when it's the only reason Obama is even in this position in the first place.

Obama doesnt win an issues debate. He gets creamed if people decide this on issues. He wins by becoming something greater than that. He wins by convincing people that McCain is Bush. Thats not an issue. That's a tag line.

Here's the McCain camp response to the Obama response to the McCain response to the Obama Lipstick remark-

UPDATE: McCain spokesman Brian Rogers responds: “Barack Obama can’t campaign with schoolyard insults and then try to claim outrage at the tone of the campaign. His talk of new politics is as empty as his campaign trail promises, and his record of bucking his party and reaching across the aisle simply doesn’t exist.”

[Oldskool]

What are "things like this"? Why isn't "community organizer" a "thing like this"? Who decides? Is Oldskool the decider?

The "macaca" incident happened on the campaign trail with George Allen. He had seen the kid at numerous other events. Do you think it was a calculated statement to try to appeal to anti-immigrant sympathies that backfired? Or was it just an extemporaneous statement that turned out to be a mistake?

Now you're just being flippant about this. Enjoy your mole hill.

[DRSmith]

So if that's the case, then Obama is ready right?

I do not know Biden and Hillary did not seem to think so a few months ago

[DRSmith]

Honestly his comment should be a non factor as to an impact directly to the McCain camp.

What is does smell like is that the edges of the Obama camp are getting a bit frayed and we are seeing less and less of the cool Barry and more of candidate Obama as of late.

Like I said he seems to getting older and losing his persona

i wast watching him on the news and i am wondering if he went off script and ad libed the whole lipstick thing as he is strammering and seems to be reaching for words

[DjTj]

Now you're just being flippant about this. Enjoy your mole hill.

Thanks for not providing me with any real answers. You're entitled to your opinion, but you haven't provided me with any reasonable basis for your belief ...

When Obama actually campaigns on something other than "Change" and "McCain is Bush 3" then and only then can he claim to be ready for serious debate and discussion.

He's also campaigning on universal health care, reversing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, immigration reform, leaving Iraq as soon as possible, and a whole host of other issues he brings up at almost every campaign stop.

I chuckle watching you lefties cry now about this crap when it's the only reason Obama is even in this position in the first place.

And fighting back on these issues was the only reason Hillary stayed in the race as long as she did ... just ignoring these things would be suicide.

Obama doesnt win an issues debate. He gets creamed if people decide this on issues. He wins by becoming something greater than that. He wins by convincing people that McCain is Bush. Thats not an issue. That's a tag line.

I think Obama can win based on issues alone. The Democratic Party, running on the same platform, is poised to build bigger majorities in the House and the Senate. Democratic issues are more popular right now. McCain only wins if he convinces America that Obama is too inexperienced.

Here's the McCain camp response to the Obama response to the McCain response to the Obama Lipstick remark-

UPDATE: McCain spokesman Brian Rogers responds: “Barack Obama can’t campaign with schoolyard insults and then try to claim outrage at the tone of the campaign. His talk of new politics is as empty as his campaign trail promises, and his record of bucking his party and reaching across the aisle simply doesn’t exist.”

That's a pretty good shot, but it will not ring in the echo chamber ... This controversy will be a negative for Obama, but I think his response has blunted it a little bit. It would have been better not to have gotten caught in this, but ignoring it wasn't an option.

[Kilmer17]

Oh he had to respond. No doubt.

And once again I'll point out my own belief about how stupid it is in the first place.

[Burgold]

It is a really sad state of affairs when Bill O'Reilly becomes a voice of reason. Just heard Bill in the car calling this a smear and a completely empty and baseless attack.

[Smoot Point Really]

I'm laughing at all the liberals becoming so unhinged... It's as if they are demanding the Republicans apologize for their own candidates "poor form".

BTW, it's not the Republicans fault that the Democrats chose an inexperienced, gaffe-prone, social worker as their candidate for Commander-in-Chief... Of course, if the Republicans could've picked someone to run against, I think they would've stuck with the guy with the funny name.

Do you all have buyer's remorse yet?

[Burgold]

I'm laughing at all the liberals becoming so unhinged... It's as if they are demanding the Republicans apologize for their own candidates "poor form".

BTW, it's not the Republicans fault that the Democrats chose an inexperienced, gaffe-prone, social worker as their candidate for Commander-in-Chief... Of course, if the Republicans could've picked someone to run against, I think they would've stuck with the guy with the funny name.

Do you all have buyer's remorse yet?

Do you remember your excellent thread of this morning or last night... well, you just answered your own question.

[roqnap1]

I was seriously hoping this was an article from the Onion.

But its not.

And I'm terribly confused as to why this is an issue or even needs to be reported.

Obama used two variations of "polishing a turd". This is a huge stretch.

Did you seriously just call Palin a turd? I'm calling the press...

[Baculus]

I'm laughing at all the liberals becoming so unhinged... It's as if they are demanding the Republicans apologize for their own candidates "poor form".

BTW, it's not the Republicans fault that the Democrats chose an inexperienced, gaffe-prone, social worker as their candidate for Commander-in-Chief... Of course, if the Republicans could've picked someone to run against, I think they would've stuck with the guy with the funny name.

Do you all have buyer's remorse yet?

"SHUT UP AND ACCEPT OUR CANDIDATES, LIBERALS!"

That is pretty much all I got from your post.

[Baculus]

Now you're just being flippant about this. Enjoy your mole hill.

Oh, you mean like freaking out over the "lipstick on a pigs" comment?

The Palin campaign backers are making a living off of thin-skinned reactions to molehill issues.

How much fake indignation can we squeeze into a 24-hour period?

[Kilmer17]

"SHUT UP AND ACCEPT OUR CANDIDATES, LIBERALS!"

That is pretty much all I got from your post.

Press and Liberals to the GOP_ "SHUT UP AND ACT THE WAY WE WANT YOU TO ACT. AND DO THE THINGS WE WANT YOU TO DO!"

[ccsl2]

I do not know Biden and Hillary did not seem to think so a few months ago

But they know now don't they??? He didn't luck into the nomination. He won it fair and square.

[Baculus]

I suppose that its a matter of perspective. Obama supporters, especially on this board see nothing wrong with their candidate at all. Same goes with some McCain supporters here.

It is certianly a matter of prospective. I definitely stood up for my candidate, Ron Paul, whenever I felt he was slighted (and he was repeatedly insulted, time and time again, often by the same folks throwing hissy fits over Palin). And, sometimes, I definitely reacted in a knee-jerk fashion; I can fully own up to the fact that I can be as thin-skinned as anyone else when warranted or seemingly slighted.

I see it from both sides. I see weaknesses, strengths, trends and things that flat out don't work. I said that it was a mistake for McCain to take this as an affront and it was a mistake for Obama to make the comment to begin with. If you honestly think that there was no forethought in that statement, there is little hope for you. Politics rarely is not calculated.

Some people just have myopic vision and can't see the truth.

If she is so tough, I don't know why she suddenly needs a chorus of defenders.

And see the truth? Of what? I could very well ask you the same question.

I don't think you, my friend, are interested in "the truth," or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Baculus]

Press and Liberals to the GOP_ "SHUT UP AND ACT THE WAY WE WANT YOU TO ACT. AND DO THE THINGS WE WANT YOU TO DO!"

Actually, the press hasn't suggested that. What the press has done are pressed certain issues, or looked into her background with inquiry. I don't see how that is telling McCain and Palin to "act" a certain way.

Can you explain further?

That IS contrary to what the McCain campaign have been doing, which is, over and over again, talking about the supposed treatment of Palin by the "Fourth Estate."

I really, really think that many folks would be much happier if the press was abolished, supposed "liberals" (which means anyone that is not in agreement with the McCain/Palin campaign) were rounded up and shipped out, and the elections were held today...with no elections. I honestly feel this way, after spending time looking at right-wing blogs, and seeing the hatred that is seeing towards their fellow Americans, towards the press, and towards the perceived opposition candidates.

Personally, I think the America of old is gone, and this is what we are left with today.

[Kilmer17]

Actually, the press hasn't suggested that. What the press has done are pressed certain issues, or looked into her background with inquiry. I don't see how that is telling McCain and Palin to "act" a certain way.

Can you explain further?

That IS contrary to what the McCain campaign have been doing, which is, over and over again, talking about the supposed treatment of Palin by the "Fourth Estate."

I really, really think that many folks would be much happier if the press was abolished, supposed "liberals" (which means anyone that is not in agreement with the McCain/Palin campaign) were rounded up and shipped out, and the elections were held today...with no elections. I honestly feel this way, after spending time looking at right-wing blogs, and seeing the hatred that is seeing towards their fellow Americans, towards the press, and towards the perceived opposition candidates.

Personally, I think the America of old is gone, and this is what we are left with today.

The story last week (less than a week after becoming the VP nominee) became why Palin wouldnt talk to the press.

They were interested in issues, they were interested in smearing her. They were and are pissed off because McCain and the GOP had the audicity to not give them the heads up or ability to vett (I have no idea how to spell this) her themselves and create their own narrative.

And you are part of the problem IF you think that such vitriol and hatred is one sided. MoveOn, DailyKos, Huffington, ALL of MSNBC now are all spewing lies hatred and vitriol 24/7 towards the GOP.

I dont want the press to go away. But the left absolutely wants to silence the media that disagrees with them. And they proudly state that in campaigns.

I just want the media to be fair, or when they aare editrializing, to not pretend to be something else.