Pete Prisco: Skins show Desperation....

[robotfire]

In what way are the Eagles better than us? What is the reasoning? We had more injuries than them, so that's not it. We had a better record than them, so that's not it. What???

[SD Skins fan]

In what way are the Eagles better than us? What is the reasoning? We had more injuries than them, so that's not it. We had a better record than them, so that's not it. What???

They have Donovan McNabb and Brian Westbrook.... the media LOVES McNabb and Westbrook. I can't name another player on their team besides Dawkins, but somehow, the media will still love them as long as they still have McNabb and Westbrook. The Redskins are almost an All Star team compared to the Eagles.

[Harwich Hog]

I love this kind of article. Just another article to lambast after the Week1 victory over the Gnats at Swamplands.

Gotta praise Prisco though. Somehow he's managed to make a living off out of a sport he seems to know f-all about. Wish I could.

[fansince62]

I consider myself a realistic fan when it comes to rooting for the Skins, but this is just ridiculous pessimism. EVERYTHING's a weakness to you. You list aging positions as a negative AND bringing in new people at positions as a negative. :laugh: Cerrato gets "vice" taken out of his title, and he's a new GM? They made the playoffs last year, but you didn't like how they did it? They drafted the best punter in college football, but that's a negative?

You are one crotchety fan. Move over M_SF.

wow. the ostriches are out in force!

realism...that's your shtick...eh? it appears you and I set different standards in life. I can fully appreciate success (making the playoffs) while understanding the forces propelling that success and how they do not translate to sustained excellence (losing in the playoffs).

pessimism is a state of mind. the poster wanted to know why some thought the Skins are in rebuild mode. I answered him. A "realist" like you roles in and attacks tone rather than content. that is your perogative, of course. but it hardly serves as convincing material. It should strike you from your professional life...whatever that might happen to be....that change always produces unintended consequences. humans and organizations need time/exposure to adjust, understand and adapt. football teams are no different...and the changes that have occurred over the last several mos have been large...with a capital L. I think many of the moves that have been made are quite good...and am hopeful that Cerratto actually has a long term plan (btw...the board needs to get its story straight: either Cerratto had a role over the last several years or he didn't....vice be *amned). but we are in transition...AGAIN.

anyone mindful of results and not overburdened by a desire to rationalize every failing should acknowledge that this team has not been upper tier for over a decade. the roster has been in constant churn and there has been no consistent philosophy providing a guiding hand to the tiller. the "reality" is that this team has changed its course and made some interesting moves........you have no factual basis AT ALL for assessing how this new version of the Skins will perform. we all HOPE for the best: that doesn't mean we need to stick our heads in the sand.

move over National Zoo ostriches!

[fansince62]

Agreed. Holy crap. I'm not sure what the funniest part of that breakdown is. New punter? Oh man, this season is toast because we brought in competition for our punter! :laugh:

But the part about our depth is priceless. If last year's run to the playoffs despite losing about a quarter of our starters from the beginning of the season didn't demonstrate that our depth is a STRENGTH of the team, then nothing will.

thank you Vince Lombardi!!! Depth served us well in the Seattle game.

As for punter.....it's a change widget. one domino in a chain. you can understand that...can't you?

say...did you attend public schools throughout your childhood?...... :laugh:

[Dan T.]

wow. the ostriches are out in force!

move over National Zoo ostriches!

thank you Vince Lombardi!!! Depth served us well in the Seattle game.

As for punter.....it's a change widget. one domino in a chain. you can understand that...can't you?

say...did you attend public schools throughout your childhood?...... :laugh:

Wow. Unwarranted pessimism AND unbridled arrogance...

I attacked your tone AND your content. Because much of the content was weak, contradictory, and wrong. Which added up to a tone that put you right up there with the most ardent naysayers.

[Larry Brown #43]

thank you Vince Lombardi!!! Depth served us well in the Seattle game.

As for punter.....it's a change widget. one domino in a chain. you can understand that...can't you?

say...did you attend public schools throughout your childhood?...... :laugh:

Only six teams lost six or more starters for the season last year...of those six teams, the Redskins were the only team to make the playoffs. That would tell most rational people that depth isn't a problem for us. In fact, as the year wore on, the more injuries we racked up, the better we played. The only way that's even possible is by having solid depth. Most teams would have fallen apart under the same circumstances.

The punter thing. You do realize that EVERY team in the league has turnover on its roster every year, right? And many teams bring in competition for their specialists? The only way we'll have a new punter is if Brooks turns out to be BETTER than the punter we already have. So best case scenario, we'll have a BETTER punter than the one we had last year. Worst case, we'll have the exact same punter we had last year. Most teams would consider this a good thing.

[TheLongshot]

anyone mindful of results and not overburdened by a desire to rationalize every failing should acknowledge that this team has not been upper tier for over a decade. the roster has been in constant churn and there has been no consistent philosophy providing a guiding hand to the tiller. the "reality" is that this team has changed its course and made some interesting moves........you have no factual basis AT ALL for assessing how this new version of the Skins will perform. we all HOPE for the best: that doesn't mean we need to stick our heads in the sand.

Actually, there has been a consistent philosophy for building this team for the past 4 years, and Zorn seems to be building on that foundation rather than razing it and starting over.

Yet, in your eyes, we are rebuilding.

Jason

[LD0506]

Actually, there has been a consistent philosophy for building this team for the past 4 years, and Zorn seems to be building on that foundation rather than razing it and starting over.

Yet, in your eyes, we are rebuilding.

Jason

See, I agree with this view, we are still building towards something but it wasn't beginning from Square 1 all over again. Think what you will Joe Gibbs did a huge amount of work on the foundation of the team, a lot of things that might not be obvious but are tangible. Zorn now gets to expand beyond that.

Do we see them hoist a trophy this season? Probably not, but we have moved closer to that goal than we have been in well over a decade.

[fansince62]

Actually, there has been a consistent philosophy for building this team for the past 4 years, and Zorn seems to be building on that foundation rather than razing it and starting over.

Yet, in your eyes, we are rebuilding.

Jason

no there hasn't....see I can make assertions too and out of the majesty of my personality and goodness of my heart expect people to accept my pronouncements without thinking!!!...... :laugh:

btw...gimme a break.....the philosophy started off very heavily weighted to FA until Joe "learned his lesson". the schemes that motivate player decisions changed decisively over the course of the last 4 yrs...that was part of the problem on offense...the Gibbs/Saunders frictions if you will.

razing and starting over is a strawman argument. you can do better. it doesn't require a degree in astro physics to see that the offense and philoposphy Jim Zorn brings to bear will be substantially different from Joe Gibbs'/Al Saunders'. There is a transition in play. You can call it what you want if the word rebuild is unappealing. The change is there for all to see and it is pretty substantial. In fact...it is this change that has folks like me more optimistic than usual...I will reiterate what I have posted elsewhere: Vinny has forced me to reconsider....the jury is out but the deliberations are positive. We won't know for a nother season or two what the final verdict will be.

[fansince62]

Wow. Unwarranted pessimism AND unbridled arrogance...

I attacked your tone AND your content. Because much of the content was weak, contradictory, and wrong. Which added up to a tone that put you right up there with the most ardent naysayers.

you didn't atatck anything other than me.....boob. if you believe you even approached a conclusive thought process on highlihgting weak, contradictory and incorrect content......you are a comedian nonpareil.

I get it...you don't like negative or "pessimistic" posts and have an over-weaning need to establish your bona-fides as a really, really homespun B&G diehard who has it all in one sock.

yawn........or is it BORING? the Skins are what they are and will be what they will be whether you exercise control over how others think and feel or not. I can enjoy them just like you and still speak to what I see are problems.

It is exchanges like this that return me to thinking that there are advantages to abortion.

[Dan T.]

no there hasn't....see I can make assertions too and out of the majesty of my personality and goodness of my heart expect people to accept my pronouncements without thinking!!!...... :laugh:

btw...gimme a break.....the philosophy started off very heavily weighted to FA until Joe "learned his lesson". the schemes that motivate player decisions changed decisively over the course of the last 4 yrs...that was part of the problem on offense...the Gibbs/Saunders frictions if you will.

razing and starting over is a strawman argument. you can do better. it doesn't require a degree in astro physics to see that the offense and philoposphy Jim Zorn brings to bear will be substantially different from Joe Gibbs'/Al Saunders'. There is a transition in play. You can call it what you want if the word rebuild is unappealing. The change is there for all to see and it is pretty substantial. In fact...it is this change that has folks like me more optimistic than usual...I will reiterate what I have posted elsewhere: Vinny has forced me to reconsider....the jury is out but the deliberations are positive. We won't know for a nother season or two what the final verdict will be.

Condescending tone aside, that's a pretty fair assessment of where the team stands. It's a long way from the ridiculous laundry list you posted earlier in this thread.

Sorry, rebuilding IS the wrong characterization for what's going on. A playoff team returning 21 starters is not in rebuilding mode.

Granted, the Redskins ARE retooling their offense. No doubt about it. The thing is, it NEEDED retooling.

There's more continuity on the defensive side of the ball, with Blache picking up where Williams left off, even though it sounds like he's putting his personal stamp on the schemes, with news that the CBs will play much more pressure man coverage with Jason Taylor bolstering the pass rush.

[TheLongshot]

btw...gimme a break.....the philosophy started off very heavily weighted to FA until Joe "learned his lesson". the schemes that motivate player decisions changed decisively over the course of the last 4 yrs...that was part of the problem on offense...the Gibbs/Saunders frictions if you will.

Well, I wasn't talking about the philosophy of acquiring players, which is something else entirely, but more the type of players that they got for the team. As time went on, they gradually replaced players who didn't fit in with the plan with other players that did fit better.

Even when Saunders was brought in, the philosophy of the offense basically stayed the same. Course, that probably was part of the problem, but the point stands that the philosophy of what they were building under Gibbs didn't change much, if at all, in 4 years.

razing and starting over is a strawman argument. you can do better. it doesn't require a degree in astro physics to see that the offense and philoposphy Jim Zorn brings to bear will be substantially different from Joe Gibbs'/Al Saunders'. There is a transition in play. You can call it what you want if the word rebuild is unappealing. The change is there for all to see and it is pretty substantial. In fact...it is this change that has folks like me more optimistic than usual...I will reiterate what I have posted elsewhere: Vinny has forced me to reconsider....the jury is out but the deliberations are positive. We won't know for a nother season or two what the final verdict will be.

Sure there are some changes in offensive philosophy going on right now. But, that doesn't automatically mean that we will struggle. Teams like Dallas and New Orleans were able to pull things together fairly quickly and were able to turn mediocre to bad teams into playoff powerhouses in short order. It isn't unrealistic to think the same thing can happen here, especially since there probably have been fewer changes in the coaching staff than what those teams made.

Jason

[Dan T.]

you didn't atatck anything other than me.....boob. if you believe you even approached a conclusive thought process on highlihgting weak, contradictory and incorrect content......you are a comedian nonpareil.

You listed bringing in the best punter in college football as a negative. Weak

You listed aging veterans as a negative, and bringing in new players as a negative. Contradictory.

You said there was a new GM, and that last year proved lack of depth. Incorrect

get it...you don't like negative or "pessimistic" posts and have an over-weaning need to establish your bona-fides as a really, really homespun B&G diehard who has it all in one sock.

Really, I'm not much of a homer. My post history will bear that out. But don't let reality get in the way of a good rant.

boob...

there are advantages to abortion.

Right back at ya.

[akorn22]

I don;t really care about anything pete prisco has to say. THe guy i a moron with a sportswriting job.

[fansince62]

Only six teams lost six or more starters for the season last year...of those six teams, the Redskins were the only team to make the playoffs. That would tell most rational people that depth isn't a problem for us. In fact, as the year wore on, the more injuries we racked up, the better we played. The only way that's even possible is by having solid depth. Most teams would have fallen apart under the same circumstances.

The punter thing. You do realize that EVERY team in the league has turnover on its roster every year, right? And many teams bring in competition for their specialists? The only way we'll have a new punter is if Brooks turns out to be BETTER than the punter we already have. So best case scenario, we'll have a BETTER punter than the one we had last year. Worst case, we'll have the exact same punter we had last year. Most teams would consider this a good thing.

larry........winning has multiple sources including...

- emotion (as in a death in the family)

- the quality of the opposition (as in teams that have clinched and don't care)

- changes in strategy

- using starting players in new roles (as in Landry)

- starting players ratchetting things up a notch (as in Springs)

you haven't addressed the seminal question: why did that depth equate to squat in the playoffs? moreover, why have the caoches themselves stated over the off-season that building depth along both lines was a priority? if you believe we had great depth at left tackle, center, left guard, right guard and right tackle...have at it! we never needed to panic and trade for Kendall! no cause for worry should Rabach be injured. why we drafted a guard is beyond me. in your rush to victories...balanced argument that it is....you neglected to assess the losses.

as for the punter.....this is getting tedious since it's relatively minor in the grand scheme of things......one item in a long list. your point on whether he starts or not is valid. but it doesn't alter the idea that this represents change and a substantial rewickering - the Skins are being reengineered in front of us whether you admit it or not. the team DRAFTED the guy when there were other needs - a very clear signal that it is unhappy with Foster.

tell you what....to add some clarity...why don't you list what will remain constant from last season......I can think of a lot of things are changing from top to bottom (coaching, blocking scheme, offensive scheme, playcalling, wideout packages...etc...etc). there's a lot going down. no one is arguing that we are headed for perdition........I never once stated that the Skins were headed for diaster and ruination....other widgets wanted to head in that direction with thoughts about "pessimism".

on a sidenote...if you think that the idea of CHANGE is empty boilerplate..well...I will have to confess that as I look around elsewhere...say national politics...I can see how one might easily leap to that conclusion.

[fansince62]

You listed bringing in the best punter in college football as a negative. Weak

You listed aging veterans as a negative, and bringing in new players as a negative. Contradictory.

You said there was a new GM, and that last year proved lack of depth. Incorrect

Really, I'm not much of a homer. My post history will bear that out. But don't let reality get in the way of a good rant.

Right back at ya.

what don't you get? the list addressed CHANGE. the orig question was why some thought the Skins were rebuilding. You are the one who responded on an emotional plane with the thought that this was all negative.

I don't view drafting the punter as negative...far from it. but I do see it as one in a long list of changes that have happened to this team over the off-season...and still further changes as aging players are replaced...that the Skins are making. and you missed my point on the GM: there have been contending points-of-view on cerratto on this board.....he played a substanative role in personnel decisions while Gibbs was here...or he didn't. Snyder made a decision that ended all doubt. that is a change.

you can accept or ignore the idea in play. I don't really care. but don't hijack the discussion to suit your emotional needs.

you seem like a nice guy....but you're not going to pigeon-hole me on this one. my focus all along has been on how the Skins are morphing from what they were under Gibbs into what they will be under Zorn. It's not going to be business as usual...it's pretty substantial. I actually like a lot of what is happening. I have no idea how it will play out....but have a positive mindset just the same. there is the past...and there is the future.

[Morneblade]

what don't you get? the list addressed CHANGE. the orig question was why some thought the Skins were rebuilding. You are the one who responded on an emotional plane with the thought that this was all negative.

I don't view drafting the punter as negative...far from it. but I do see it as one in a long list of changes that have happened to this team over the off-season...and still further changes as aging players are replaced...that the Skins are making. and you missed my point on the GM: there have been contending points-of-view on cerratto on this board.....he played a substanative role in personnel decisions while Gibbs was here...or he didn't. Snyder made a decision that ended all doubt. that is a change.

you can accept or ignore the idea in play. I don't really care. but don't hijack the discussion to suit your emotional needs.

you seem like a nice guy....but you're not going to pigeon-hole me on this one. my focus all along has been on how the Skins are morphing from what they were under Gibbs into what they will be under Zorn. It's not going to be business as usual...it's pretty substantial. I actually like a lot of what is happening. I have no idea how it will play out....but have a positive mindset just the same. there is the past...and there is the future.

The Dolphins are rebuilding. They are blowing up the team after a 1-15 seasons and are years away from being a decent team. That is the definition of "rebuilding". We are not. And we are not rebuilding. If we were, basically everyone over 30 would be traded or cut.

[fansince62]

The Dolphins are rebuilding. They are blowing up the team after a 1-15 seasons and are years away from being a decent team. That is the definition of "rebuilding". We are not. And we are not rebuilding. If we were, basically everyone over 30 would be traded or cut.

that's how you interpret the matter. We have installed new coaches, a new offense, new players to make the offense work...we will be replacing offenive linemen in bulk over the next few years....we have shifted our personnel strategy from FA centric to draft centric (at least for one year).....we have a new lead for personnel (whether he is titled GM or not)........we have changed the scouting dept........we have new defensive coach......there's a lot going on. these are all symptomatic of a rebuild. if you prefer...use the word transition. whatever...we are not simply moving to the next wrung. this team is being changed in fundamental ways: FO leadership, coaching leadership, scheme...and players. it's exciting to watch as they engage in the first year of moving away from the Joe Gibbs' particulars while retaining his intangibles (e.g., character, morale, etc.).

btw...your notion of one formula for what constitutes rebuilding is rather limitting.

[Larry Brown #43]

larry........winning has multiple sources including...

- emotion (as in a death in the family)

- the quality of the opposition (as in teams that have clinched and don't care)

- changes in strategy

- using starting players in new roles (as in Landry)

- starting players ratchetting things up a notch (as in Springs)

AND DEPTH. Listing the above without mentioning depth is absurd.

you haven't addressed the seminal question: why did that depth equate to squat in the playoffs?

The fact is, our injury situation was bound to catch up with us at some point. As I mentioned before, we were THE ONLY team in the league to make the playoffs with as severe an injury situation as we had. At some point injuries become insurmountable. Again, the other five teams with a similiar injury situation to ours didn't even MAKE the playoffs.

As thrilling and memorable as our run to the playoffs was last year, shortly after it was over I realized that we had done all we could given the hand we were dealt. You've got to realize that no matter how good your depth is, at some point injuries become too much for any team. If a team's entire starting lineup goes down in a plane crash (God forbid--I'm just trying to make a point), do you say they should still win the Super Bowl if they have solid depth? Even for teams with the best depth in the league (of which I believe we are one), there comes a threshold where injuries become insurmountable. I don't know of a team in the league that could lose 25% of its opening day starters for the season and still be expected to win in the playoffs.

moreover, why have the caoches themselves stated over the off-season that building depth along both lines was a priority? if you believe we had great depth at left tackle, center, left guard, right guard and right tackle...have at it! we never needed to panic and trade for Kendall! no cause for worry should Rabach be injured. why we drafted a guard is beyond me. in your rush to victories...balanced argument that it is....you neglected to assess the losses.

You've got to understand that in this free agency and salary cap era in which we live, every team lacks depth in some areas. It is literally impossible to have excellent depth at every position. The best GMs in the game will tell you this. You can't build the kind of depth that you could 25 years ago under today's league rules. The league is structured differently now, and you do the best you can under the system. You have to compare our depth to other teams of 2008, because all teams have to operate under today's rules. And last year provided an apt comparison. Look at the other teams that had as many injuries as we did, and look how many of them made the playoffs.

And speaking of the offensive line--we lost 40 percent of our opening day starting O-Line for the season, yet the line still performed well. Losing the entire right side of the line would have devasted most teams. It hurt us, but not as badly as it would have hurt some teams.

as for the punter.....this is getting tedious since it's relatively minor in the grand scheme of things......one item in a long list. your point on whether he starts or not is valid. but it doesn't alter the idea that this represents change and a substantial rewickering - the Skins are being reengineered in front of us whether you admit it or not. the team DRAFTED the guy when there were other needs - a very clear signal that it is unhappy with Foster.

Look, punters come and punters go for EVERY team. I just find it comical that you would even mention it. We had 10 draft picks, so we had the luxury of taking a chance on the best punter in college football. It's such a trivial thing that it damages your credibility to even mention it. As I said before, if anything, it's a positive.

tell you what....to add some clarity...why don't you list what will remain constant from last season.

QB Campbell

LT Samuels

LG Kendall

C Rabach

RG Thomas

RT Jansen

TE Cooley

WR Moss

WR Randle El

RB Portis

FB/HB Sellers

DT Griffin

DT Montgomery

DE Carter

LB Washington

LB Fletcher

LB McIntosh

CB Smoot

CB Springs

CB Rogers

SS Doughty

FS Landry

K - Suisham

LS - Albright

P - Ah...you got me on the punter!!!!

Only turnover I see is POSSIBLY at punter, and at left DE due to the unfortunate injury to Daniels.

[JimmyConway]

Garbage. If you're going to hate Crisco please at least try to sound intelligent without prejudices.

[TheLongshot]

you haven't addressed the seminal question: why did that depth equate to squat in the playoffs? moreover, why have the caoches themselves stated over the off-season that building depth along both lines was a priority? if you believe we had great depth at left tackle, center, left guard, right guard and right tackle...have at it! we never needed to panic and trade for Kendall! no cause for worry should Rabach be injured. why we drafted a guard is beyond me. in your rush to victories...balanced argument that it is....you neglected to assess the losses.

First off, I'd say we had good depth. We had a couple starters go down and we had a couple of guys who could ably fill in.

But, because you have guys who can fill in doesn't mean that they are guys that you'd choose to have start. Backups are backups for a reason: they aren't as good as the starters. While Heyer did well for an undrafted rookie, he was still an undrafted rookie who has a lot to work on in his game. Fabini did decently out there last year, but he was far from looking like Thomas.

Larry Brown pretty much nails it: the injuries caught up to us, not to mention that Seattle is real tough to play at home.

Jason

[zoony]

n/m, issue resolved.