Larry Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 TWA - You're right about it taking years for the oil we drill for in our own territory to hit the market. However, how long is it going to take for reasonable alternative energy options to hit the market and become mainstream? I don't think it's going to be anytime soon either. Agreed. I don't think there are any instant solutions. Or even any 5-year ones. (I also think that, since all of the proposals are going to take years to develop, that we should begin working on more than one solution, since it's real tough to predict which solution will be the best one, 20 years from now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 And this proves? That posting: And it takes more energy to separate Hydrogen from water than you get back when you burn it. And the Second Law of Thermodynamics says it always will. doesnt mean anything because clearly, hydrogen CAN in fact produce energy AND they already have things that run on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Didn't say that. Simply pointing out the problem with your "We don't have time to develop alternates, we need this solution (that won't produce for 20 years) right now!" argument. I realize you weren't saying that...but I don't think it's going to take 20 years for the oil acquired from drilling in our territory to hit the market. However, I wonder how long it's going to take for reasonable alternative energy sources to become mainstream?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Agreed. I don't think there are any instant solutions. Or even any 5-year ones. (I also think that, since all of the proposals are going to take years to develop, that we should begin working on more than one solution, since it's real tough to predict which solution will be the best one, 20 years from now.) And we should start now, or rather, years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Agreed. I don't think there are any instant solutions. Or even any 5-year ones. (I also think that, since all of the proposals are going to take years to develop, that we should begin working on more than one solution, since it's real tough to predict which solution will be the best one, 20 years from now.) Holy shiznit, we agree on something!!! Yeaya! Seriously though, I think we need to get on the ball about investigating multiple energy sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 That posting:doesnt mean anything because clearly, hydrogen CAN in fact produce energy AND they already have things that run on it. My posting is an absolute, immutable, scientific fact. Look! Irrefutable proof that diesel fuel is lying around free for the taking! A limitless source of free energy! The fact that it burns clearly proves that it's available without cost anywhere you want it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BALLz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 How long until they start charging for you for gas in video games. You wanna go shoot up the town in you stolen hoopty, you better pay 10 bucks at the shell down the road(discounted because it's not real of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 That posting:doesnt mean anything because clearly, hydrogen CAN in fact produce energy AND they already have things that run on it. hydrogen does not produce energy, it is a medium of energy storage. what larry was saying is that it takes more energy to store it in hydrogen than you will get back in combining it with oxygen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 My posting is an absolute, immutable, scientific fact. Look! Irrefutable proof that diesel fuel is lying around free for the taking! A limitless source of free energy! The fact that it burns clearly proves that it's available without cost anywhere you want it! That doesnt make any sense. A picture of a bus is proof that a limitless source of diesel fuel is lying about? Thats just nonsensical. You said that hydrogen isnt a viable fuel. I posted a picture of a bus that runs on hydrogen. See how that works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 doesnt mean anything because clearly, hydrogen CAN in fact produce energy AND they already have things that run on it. That's not how they work.The Hydrogen Fuel Cells just store energy supplied by another energy source. They're just incredibly clean vehicles and better for the environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Get a Zap! http://www.zapworld.com/electric-vehicles/electric-cars priced between 10k-15k down side is the drive radius... if it was better i'd be in one now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 hydrogen does not produce energy, it is a medium of energy storage. what larry was saying is that it takes more energy to store it in hydrogen than you will get back in combining it with oxygen. I understand that, but its an alternative to gasoline cars. Forgive me if im more apt to believe the Department of Energy rather than Underlining Larry on the subject of energy. Eventually hydrogen will join electricity as the major energy carrier, supplying every end-use energy need in the economy, including transportation, central and distributed electric power, portable power, and combined heat and power for buildings and industrial processes. But today, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) are currently in the pre-production stage of development, and the infrastructure to refuel them does not currently exist. The DOE Hydrogen Program is sponsoring a variety of projects to demonstrate the technical and economic feasibility of integrated hydrogen and fuel cell systems in real-world situations that are consistent with early transition strategies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiLfan Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 damn this is depressing. soon you won't be able to fart without first having to open up your wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 My friend builds fuel cell system for your car it cost about $200 to make it, and it almost triples your mpg. He has put in on about 7 trucks - nothing above a 2006 yet. Another friend of mine his getting one on his Jeep this weekend. I do not know the long term effects, but if it works out with the jeep i'm taking the risk on one of my old cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 That's not how they work.The Hydrogen Fuel Cells just store energy supplied by another energy source. They're just incredibly clean vehicles and better for the environment. Exactly. Thats what electricity is too. But it is still an alternative to oil, which is the whole point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 You said that hydrogen isnt a viable fuel. I posted a picture of a bus that runs on hydrogen. See how that works? I posted that it takes more energy to separate Hydrogen from Oxygen than you get back when you combine Hydrogen and Oxygen. Which is an absolute fact. You posted "proof" that Hydrogen can produce energy after somebody else separates it, somewhere outside the picture, and claimed that this proves that the Laws of Thermodynamics don't exist. I pointed out that a diesel bus "produces" energy, too. if you ignore the costs of extracting the fuel. (Just like you did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BALLz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 My friend builds this fuel cell system cost about $200 to make, and it almost triples your mpg. He has put in on about 7 trucks. Another friend of mine his getting one on his Jeep this weekend. I do not know the long term effects, but if it works out with the jeep i'm taking the risk on one of my old cars. Can he make one for a Mazda 6. 90 mpg sounds worth the $200. I'm serious too, I'd pay him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 My friend builds fuel cell system for your car it cost about $200 to make it, and it almost triples your mpg. He has put in on about 7 trucks - nothing above a 2006 yet. Another friend of mine his getting one on his Jeep this weekend. I do not know the long term effects, but if it works out with the jeep i'm taking the risk on one of my old cars. that sounds interesting. i'd like to see more about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGreenistheBest Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 You said that hydrogen isnt a viable fuel. I posted a picture of a bus that runs on hydrogen. See how that works? I think you misunderstood what Larry was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I posted that it takes more energy to separate Hydrogen from Oxygen than you get back when you combine Hydrogen and Oxygen. Which is an absolute fact. You posted "proof" that Hydrogen can produce energy after somebody else separates it, somewhere outside the picture, and claimed that this proves that the Laws of Thermodynamics don't exist. I pointed out that a diesel bus "produces" energy, too. if you ignore the costs of extracting the fuel. (Just like you did). I never said the Laws of Thermodynamics dont exist or were ever broken, did i? Im saying that these are alternatives to gasoline-fueled automobiles, which, in case you forgot, is kinda the subject of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 that sounds interesting. i'd like to see more about that. i'll let you guys know how it turns out... He said he is going to start mass producing it, and charge about $1500 to install it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Removed. Trying to calm things down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Im saying that these are alternatives to gasoline-fueled automobiles, which, in case you forgot, is kinda the subject of the thread. We'll still need oil or another energy source to make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BALLz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 i'll let you guys know how it turns out... He said he is going to start mass producing it, and charge about $1500 to install it. I'm assuming your friend lives near you. To bad if he does, you could probably get him a lot of business off this board and charge some commision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dictator Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 i'll let you guys know how it turns out... He said he is going to start mass producing it, and charge about $1500 to install it. I'm going to call BS on this one. If he had indeed done this, he'd be a millionare MANY times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.