hokie4redskins Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I thought the Democrats promised to lower gas prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 It's the same thing as oil. Oil is a chemical fuel. It needs to have a chemical reaction.I just don't see that as a long term answer. Hydrogen, oil, plutonium, what's the difference? Abundance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Abundance. For now. And have we found a way to separate oxygen from hydrogen to even make it worth while? I want a fuel source that is self sustaining, renews itself. That's where I'm looking. Of course, that may never exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Yes, damn those maniacs who want to preserve our natural resources! Start drilling in national parks, endangered wetlands...who needs that crap! Seriously, this thinking is absurd. Instead of sacrificing our environment even further, why not simply make up the surplus by exporting it all directly out of Iraq? I think the blood of our youth has more than paid for it. Or just quit stalling and begin using alternative energies NOW. There's no "until" - it can happen tomorrow. Alternative energy sources right now are not mainstream and they are NOT less expensive. We are not serious about alternative energy sources right now, but we need to be. High gas prices are hopefully going to wake people up. But instead of letting our economy go into the gutter, I'm suggesting we drill more of our own oil to relieve the American public UNTIL alternative energy sources become mainstream and affordable. P.S. I've dealt with hard-core environmentalists all my life in the area I grew up in northern california...and I firmly stand by my assertion that they are whacko...just like anything else that is to the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiLfan Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Where? And what are the prices?Why don't you inform the people that actually LIVE here!?! If it ain't America... it's worse. Always a good default argument to fall back on... if you're unintelligent. In Southern Ontario... we're paying $1.20 (for regular) right now for a litre. 3 litres to a gallon. Montreal, Quebec typically pays about about $0.10-0.15 cents more per litre. However, out west, it's typically cheaper. in his defense, if you refer to the article, it specifically says Canadians are paying an "American-dollar equivalent of $4.92 a gallon"...vs. our national avg at $3.58. so, if the article is in any way accurate, then, yes, gas costs more in Canada than in the US...on average at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Those damn Europeans have been paying out the ass for years. What have they come up with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 There was an article in here, about a year ago about some guy's electric car. (George Clooney bought the prototype.) (Going from memory) It seats two, front and back. It's 29 inches wide. The batteries recharge in only an hour or so, from a normal household outlet. 30 mile range. The guy who built it also builds dragsters. The car will out-accelerate a Corvette, and is more stable in cornering than a Boxter. It meets NHRA specs for things like the driver's restraints and the cage. Because it's so small and narrow, in California, it's legal to "lane split". (When a bunch of cars are stopped at a light, it's legal for this car to drive up the gap between the cars, and drive up to the red light.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 For now. And have we found a way to separate oxygen from hydrogen to even make it worth while?I want a fuel source that is self sustaining, renews itself. That's where I'm looking. Of course, that may never exist. Hydrogen is only abundant for now? Its the 3rd most abundant element on the planet. Yes, we need more R & D on it, but we need more R & D for ANY proposed source of energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 But instead of letting our economy go into the gutter, I'm suggesting we drill more of our own oil to relieve the American public UNTIL alternative energy sources become mainstream and affordable. Problem is, what's the time-to-market for things like ANWAR or the Florida coast? 10 years? 20? Tough to sell them as quick fixes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Hydrogen is only abundant for now? Its the 3rd most abundant element on the planet.Yes, we need more R & D on it, but we need more R & D for ANY proposed source of energy. I'm trying to think of long term solutions. I just don't think hydrogen is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I think chemical is exactly where its going to go. Hydrogen is in abundance and the by product of using Hydrogen is another natural resource that could be captured and and reused for more hydrogen, or cleaned to drink . Or perhaps a nuclear car. And it takes more energy to separate Hydrogen from water than you get back when you burn it. And the Second Law of Thermodynamics says it always will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Those damn Europeans have been paying out the ass for years. What have they come up with? too bad they're socialists who prefer mass transport and smartcars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 And it takes more energy to separate Hydrogen from water than you get back when you burn it. And the Second Law of Thermodynamics says it always will. Hydrogen only exist on earth as water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Problem is, what's the time-to-market for things like ANWAR or the Florida coast? 10 years? 20? Tough to sell them as quick fixes. Well then I guess we're all effed and we should just sit back and not do anything except complain about rising gas prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Where? And what are the prices?Why don't you inform the people that actually LIVE here!?! If it ain't America... it's worse. Always a good default argument to fall back on... if you're unintelligent. In Southern Ontario... we're paying $1.20 (for regular) right now for a litre. 3 litres to a gallon. Montreal, Quebec typically pays about about $0.10-0.15 cents more per litre. However, out west, it's typically cheaper. Uh, 3.8 liters per gallon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 too bad they're socialists who prefer mass transport and smartcars I think their metro density has more to do with it. We are suburb kings out here. We need our cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Alternative energy sources right now are not mainstream and they are NOT less expensive. We are not serious about alternative energy sources right now, but we need to be. High gas prices are hopefully going to wake people up. Agreed,but I ain't holding my breath But instead of letting our economy go into the gutter, I'm suggesting we drill more of our own oil to relieve the American public UNTIL alternative energy sources become mainstream and affordable. Well it's a bit late now,but better late than never There would be a small impact on the market(because of new sources) but no real impact for years. They could of course dedicate a large percentage of the new leasing rights proceeds to subsidizing alt energy prizes. P.S. I've dealt with hard-core environmentalists all my life in the area I grew up in northern california...and I firmly stand by my assertion that they are whacko...just like anything else that is to the extreme. Oh ,no doubt. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I still don't understand why Congress doesn't offer tax incentives to corporations to encourage their work force to telecommute. Driving an hour each way to do, for instance, software engineering, is nuts. Doesn't require any R&D or extended timelines. This is something that could reduce demand NOW. I truly don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Hydrogen only exist on earth as water? Nope, it exists in lots of things. And in every one of those things, the Hydrogen has formed a chemical bond to something else. And it takes energy to break chemical bonds. (More energy than you get when you allow such bonds to form.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 nm, Larry has it covered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpillian Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I think their metro density has more to do with it.We are suburb kings out here. We need our cars. I think we also demand bigger living spaces, in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Well then I guess we're all effed and we should just sit back and not do anything except complain about rising gas prices. Didn't say that. Simply pointing out the problem with your "We don't have time to develop alternates, we need this solution (that won't produce for 20 years) right now!" argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Nope, it exists in lots of things. And in every one of those things, the Hydrogen has formed a chemical bond to something else. And it takes energy to break chemical bonds. (More energy than you get when you allow such bonds to form.) Thats interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 TWA - You're right about it taking years for the oil we drill for in our own territory to hit the market. However, how long is it going to take for reasonable alternative energy options to hit the market and become mainstream? I don't think it's going to be anytime soon either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Thats interesting. And this proves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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