Jeremiah Wright on Bill Moyers

[headexplode]

I just finished watching an in-depth interview with the controversial Rev. Jeremiah Wright by Bill Moyers on PBS, and my perception of the pastor is now deeply at odds with much of what has been written and said about the man in the mainstream media and on this very board. I saw a man not filled with hate, racism, and "unAmericanism," but a man who has been unfairly maligned, and whose message has been severely distorted for crass political purposes.

Without a doubt, he is a man who speaks from a different vantage point than many of us, whose views on life, god, government, and race have been shaped by his own unique experiences and the environment in which he was raised and the community he has preached in for almost forty years. His church says that it is "unashamedly black, and unapologetically christian," a reference to a time when, in order to be considered a true christian, those with African heritage had to abandon their past, their culture, their history, to assimilate into the European views of the proper worship of god, and where they were also teased by other blacks for practicing the "white man's religion."

One of Wright's mentors was white, a history of theology professor from Chicago who he credits with shaping his views on the role of the Church in the communities it serves, and how it offers hope to those who otherwise might not have much to hope for, and who encourages them to use their life to better the world around them. He says his church does not promote a "race-based theology," but one that focuses on the needs and concerns of those who, he believes, god loved dearly: the poor, the hopeless, the disposessed, the sufferers.

This interview is available on the PBS website. I offer the link below.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04252008/watch.html

[SkinsOrlando]

Would you like a shovel for his load of BS.

[Dan T.]

Good post, Headexplode.

I highly recommend reading "Dreams from My Father", Barak Obama's memoirs, written early in his young life, just after he had been elected president of the Harvard Law Review. Since it was before his career began as an elected official, his voice is unfiltered by the caution of politics.

Much of the book discusses his time in Chicago, in the neighborhoods served by Rev. Wright's church.

The book reveals Obama to be an extremely thoughtful, intelligent, literate young man as he wrestles with his future, his destiny, and his role as a black man in America.

It is in many ways an astounding book, a rare opportunity to look in as a national politician recounts his journey of self-discovery as a young man.

It gives insight into what it means to be a black man in the US, and it will give pause to those who blithely argue that blacks in America are equal now and have no room to complain.

[zoony]

I'll have to watch that when I get time. Thanks for posting

[headexplode]

Good post, Headexplode.

I highly recommend reading "Dreams from My Father", Barak Obama's memoirs, written early in his young life, just after he had been elected president of the Harvard Law Review. Since it was before his career began as an elected official, his voice is unfiltered by the caution of politics.

Much of the book discusses his time in Chicago, in the neighborhoods served by Rev. Wright's church.

The book reveals Obama to be an extremely thoughtful, intelligent, literate young man as he wrestles with his future, his destiny, and his role as a black man in America.

It is in many ways an astounding book, a rare opportunity to look in as a national politician recounts his journey of self-discovery as a young man.

It gives insight into what it means to be a black man in the US, and it will give pause to those who blithely argue that blacks in America are equal now and have no room to complain.

Thanks, Dan.

I'll have to pick this book up. I think Obama is now under the constraints that most politicians are, and this limits his ability to speak openly and honestly about things he cares deeply about. I am very interested to read his views before this unfortunate limitation, because I do believe he is very intelligent and thoughtful, far more than any politicians we've seen in a very long time.

[redskins59]

I support Hillary, but I watched him on Bill Moyers and I found him to be extremely intelligent. Some of the things he said were definitely twisted by the media.

[twa]

I support Hillary, but I watched him on Bill Moyers and I found him to be extremely intelligent. Some of the things he said were definitely twisted by the media.

Is this twisted or taken out of context?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM&eurl=http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/13/obamas-pastor-god-damn-america/

I do not doubt he is intelligent,but then so is Chomsky

[Dan T.]

Thanks, Dan.

I'll have to pick this book up. I think Obama is now under the constraints that most politicians are, and this limits his ability to speak openly and honestly about things he cares deeply about. I am very interested to read his views before this unfortunate limitation, because I do believe he is very intelligent and thoughtful, far more than any politicians we've seen in a very long time.

You won't be disappointed my friend.

[33]

Thanks for posting headexplode. Not being at the mercy of the U.S. media, it always seemed obvious to me that we were only being treated to sound-bites. Sometime soon when I have the time I'm going to watch the Bill Moyers interview.

Is this twisted or taken out of context?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe...d-damn-america/

I do not doubt he is intelligent,but then so is Chomsky

Outside of anything religious (I'm not a xtian, so I can't speak to those issues), I actually see nothing wrong with that clip. He's speaking about black people standing behind someone who can relate to what they've gone through. He's probably right, I doubt Hillary has ever been called that.

[headexplode]

Is this twisted or taken out of context?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM&eurl=http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/13/obamas-pastor-god-damn-america/

I believe so.

From Wright's perspective, god is above all governments of man. Governments lie, they cheat, they kill and enslave innocent people. No doubt our own government has engaged in some of these behaviors. His point was that god condemns the wicked acts of man, and that, by extension, god would condemn many of the wicked act of the United States Government.

Wright spoke about the fact that many of his parishioners were affected by the 9/11 attacks. Many of them lost family members and friends. His point, as I see it, is that those who died, and those who were left behind, were victims caught in the crossfire of governments and deranged killers, who suffered unnecessarily because of the wickedness of mankind. These attacks inspired subsequent wars and bombings and loss of innocent life, which he cannot abide because of his religious faith.

Whether one agrees or not, his message was not inspired by hatred or racism or unAmericanism, but by his views of god and the unjust suffering of all humans on earth.

[Jumbo]

Is this twisted or taken out of context?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM&eurl=http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/13/obamas-pastor-god-damn-america/

I do not doubt he is intelligent,but then so is Chomsky

I understand your reaction, twa. Though I imagine many will judge without seeing it. And I don't know how you'd feel about this, but referring to Chomsky is a good example of why I won't either mindlessly, or mindfully, blow off learning more about this guy and will watch this when I have time . Chomsky had a lot of stuff I reject, but he offered a lot of very important insights that are part of our mainstream thought and institutions these days.

I was wondering if anyone would start a thread on the show when they talked about it this morning on ABC radio. I figured it would either be an open and active mind like headexplode's (I don't know to what extent he does or doesn't endorse various radical comments of Wright's) or it would someone (un-named but a long list) bashing it who hadn't watched it.

I saw some brief clips earlier this afternoon. I can't imagine it could be anything would change my bottom line reaction to Wright, but even what I watched indicated (as expected) that there's obviously more meat to these matters than the bytes we're repeatedly fed. Maybe some worthwhile learning could result. I am curious to see if I can find any reason that justifies (to me) Oabama liking anything about the guy, spiritually.

[PeterMP]

I'm sorry, but he can say whatever he wants, but actions speak louder than words:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/14/AR2008011402083.html

"Barack Obama is a member of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Its minister, and Obama's spiritual adviser, is the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. In 1982, the church launched Trumpet Newsmagazine; Wright's daughters serve as publisher and executive editor. Every year, the magazine makes awards in various categories. Last year, it gave the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to a man it said "truly epitomized greatness." That man is Louis Farrakhan."

Unless Wright wants to publically denounce and reject his daughter and Church's magazine, I'll retain a heavy dose of scepticism with in anything he says now (and even if does denounce and reject I'll still be skeptical).

[headexplode]

I'm sorry, but he can say whatever he wants, but actions speak louder than words:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/14/AR2008011402083.html

"Barack Obama is a member of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Its minister, and Obama's spiritual adviser, is the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. In 1982, the church launched Trumpet Newsmagazine; Wright's daughters serve as publisher and executive editor. Every year, the magazine makes awards in various categories. Last year, it gave the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to a man it said "truly epitomized greatness." That man is Louis Farrakhan."

Unless Wright wants to publically denounce and reject his daughter and Church's magazine, I'll retain a heavy dose of scepticism with in anything he says now (and even if does denounce and reject I'll still be skeptical).

There is nothing wrong with skepticism, Peter. I know you to be a thoughtful and enganging person who isn't predisposed to knee-jerk reaction and blind malignance. He does speak about Farrakhan in the interview and he said that while Farrakhan has expressed racist and anti-Semetic views in the past, the positive things he has done for the black community (and his ability to get the black community to listen to him, both those who agree and disagree) should be taken into account.

To Jumbo's question, I neither endorse or reject Wright's views. My point in making this thread was to encourage a more balanced discussion on Wright and to reject the notion that his message is based on hate, racism, and unAmericanism, and that he is, like some have mistakenly said, no different than neo-Nazis and other hate groups.

[redskins59]

Is this twisted or taken out of context?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAYe7MT5BxM&eurl=http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/03/13/obamas-pastor-god-damn-america/

I do not doubt he is intelligent,but then so is Chomsky

Yup, that's not taken out of context, and what he said right there was not extremist. It sounds extremist only when you play the "god damn america" part. However, he actually tied the whole "god damn america" part to the bible if you watched the show tonight. Wright can bash Whites as much as he wants as far as I am concerned because he was born in an era where segregation was the norm. Note though, I'm neither white nor black, but all I know is certain black folks have earned the right to bash white people because of what they went through, period. A guy who was born at a time when Whites treated him like crap is going to be bitter.

[redskins59]

I'm sorry, but he can say whatever he wants, but actions speak louder than words:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/14/AR2008011402083.html

"Barack Obama is a member of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ. Its minister, and Obama's spiritual adviser, is the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. In 1982, the church launched Trumpet Newsmagazine; Wright's daughters serve as publisher and executive editor. Every year, the magazine makes awards in various categories. Last year, it gave the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award to a man it said "truly epitomized greatness." That man is Louis Farrakhan."

Unless Wright wants to publically denounce and reject his daughter and Church's magazine, I'll retain a heavy dose of scepticism with in anything he says now (and even if does denounce and reject I'll still be skeptical).

Wright, tonight on Bill Moyer's program specifically denounced Farrakhan's anti-semitc remarks. I visit democraticunderground.com, and let me tell you one thing: blacks just love Farrakhan. I'm not kidding. Does that mean most blacks are anti-semitic by your logic?

[Jumbo]

Unless Wright wants to publically denounce and reject his daughter and Church's magazine, I'll retain a heavy dose of scepticism with in anything he says now (and even if does denounce and reject I'll still be skeptical).

Nothing hard to understand about that position and nothing unreasonable about it either, IMO. My view on Wright is very negative. But I will watch that I may see something to help me understand how he makes sense to other people very different than me, but people who are still reasonable enoughin their overall make-up. From experience, I find that working those muscles benefits my life. It doesn't need to change my mind, just work it. If it does lead to enlightenment or expansion in some way, then cool. I have never had such efforts degrade the solidity of my core values, education, or wisdom, but usually either strengthen and enhance them, or simply end up a waste of time. And I waste time in more ways than I should, probably. :laugh:

[headexplode]

But I will watch that I may see something to help me understand how he makes sense to other people very different than me, but people who are still reasonable enoughin their overall make-up. From experience, I find that working those muscles benefits my life. It doesn't need to change my mind, just work it. If it does lead to enlightenment or expansion in some way, then cool. I have never had such efforts degrade the solidity of my core values, education, or wisdom, but usually either strengthen and enhance them, or simply end up a waste of time. And I waste time in more ways than I should, probably. :laugh:

This is my only point, Jumbo. I am not an Obama "supporter." I am not a Wright sympathizer. I do think the man has been done a disservice by a lazy, ignorant media and a malicious body politic. This degrades the level of discourse in this country and hurts us in the long run. No one has to agree with Wright. People should take an honest look at the man, what he stands for, and he what he has to say.

For the record I take great pride in my political and intellectual independence. I am biased, no doubt, as all are, and that bias is a product of my life experience, my environment, etc. I do, however, try to question my own beliefs and motivations to (hopefully) come to a more accurate and balanced view of things.

My initial reaction to Wright was very negative. But, as I looked further, I found that, as is usually the case, all is not what it seems.

[cjcdaman]

My initial reaction to Wright was very negative. But, as I looked further, I found that, as is usually the case, all is not what it seems.[/quote=]

:laugh: Where I stand, I call that being a ***** and being persuaded by "your" media that says we are being too harsh on him. But it's okay.

[headexplode]

:laugh: Where I stand, I call that being a ***** and being persuaded by "your" media that says we are being too harsh on him. But it's okay.

I call it actually listening to what someone has to say and trying to understand their perspective. The interview was an hour long and it offered far more context to Wright's comments than four-minute clips followed by reactionary commentary and lazy reporting.

The media didn't convince me to reevaluate my opinions on Wright. Wright did.

[PeterMP]

Wright, tonight on Bill Moyer's program specifically denounced Farrakhan's anti-semitc remarks. I visit democraticunderground.com, and let me tell you one thing: blacks just love Farrakhan. I'm not kidding. Does that mean most blacks are anti-semitic by your logic?

1. Unless the transcript there is wrong he didn't "denounce" anything. He said that he was Christian and that Farrakhan was Muslim and that they didn't agree on everything. Nothing specific about anti-semitism. In fact:

"BILL MOYERS: And he, you know, he's expressed racist and anti-Semitic remarks. And, yet, last year-

REVEREND WRIGHT: Twenty years ago.

BILL MOYERS: Twenty years ago, but that's indefensible.

REVEREND WRIGHT: The Nation of Islam and Mr. Farrakhan have more African-American men off of drugs....That we don't believe the same things in terms of our specific faiths. He's Muslim, I'm Christian. We don't believe the same things he said years ago..."

The easy answer to "Twenty years ago, but that's indefensible" is:

"Yes, anti-semitism and hate in general is always wrong no matter when or how long ago it was done."

Not to go on about the achievements of the person.

In addition, the whole 20 years ago thing in of to itself is an attempt to down play Farrakhans speech. Farrakahn announced shortly after Katrina that he had information that suggested that the leeves in New Orleans were blown up. A couple of days later he announced that divers had found goverment explosives under the water.

2. I didn't call anybody anti-semitic (even in this post I didn't).

3. I actually know some blacks and not just go to web sites where they post comments, and they aren't anti-semitic based on conversations that I have had with them. In fact, from what I know, I don't personally know a black person that I would call anti-semitic. I know two guys that voted for Hillary in the primary have never heard anything postive said about Farrakahn.

4. I'd question the character of anybody that admitted to "loving" Farrakahn just as I would somebody that "loved" David Duke.

[cjcdaman]

I call it actually listening to what someone has to say and trying to understand their perspective. The interview was an hour long and it offered far more context to Wright's comments than four-minute clips followed by reactionary commentary and lazy reporting.

The media didn't convince me to reevaluate my opinions on Wright. Wright did.

He told you what you wanted to hear. It's okay. I know your stance. You've made it clear on this site several times. I, for one, like to reach down and realize I have a set.

You can sit here and type your lovely essays for hours. You have your views and now that he has ACTUALLY said some nice things on PBS(that you like), you are on him like a bum on a bologna sandwich. It's okay.

[Burgundy Burner]

Note though, I'm neither white nor black, but all I know is certain black folks have earned the right to bash white people because of what they went through, period. A guy who was born at a time when Whites treated him like crap is going to be bitter.

I disagree with this ideology. To hate and bash someone or a group of people is wrong, even if we have been subjected to it many times. As a Christian, I have seen several people in this forum post derogatory comments about Christianity or refer to Christians in very unflattering terms. Name calling has been there too.

However, it doesn't help me to hate on someone because they have said these things or hated on me. Sure, it hurts to see some of the characterizations in here and it would be easy to have a bitterness inside, but that serves no useful purpose. Pastor Wright needs to understand that hatred is out there, but it shouldn't be confronted with the kind of rhetoric that lumps an entire group of people together - after all, there are some good people who are caucasian.

My $0.02 :2cents: :2cents:

[headexplode]

He told you what you wanted to hear. It's okay. I know your stance. You've made it clear on this site several times. I, for one, like to reach down and realize I have a set.

You can sit here and type your lovely essays for hours. You have your views and now that he has ACTUALLY said some nice things on PBS(that you like), you are on him like a bum on a bologna sandwich. It's okay.

:laugh:

So, what is my stance, exactly?

[headexplode]

I disagree with this ideology. To hate and bash someone or a group of people is wrong, even if we have been subjected to it many times. As a Christian, I have seen several people in this forum post derogatory comments about Christianity or refer to Christians in very unflattering terms. Name calling has been there too.

However, it doesn't help me to hate on someone because they have said these things or hated on me. Sure, it hurts to see some of the characterizations in here and it would be easy to have a bitterness inside, but that serves no useful purpose. Pastor Wright needs to understand that hatred is out there, but it shouldn't be confronted with the kind of rhetoric that lumps an entire group of people together - after all, there are some good people who are caucasian.

My $0.02 :2cents: :2cents:

I agree with you Burgundy, but I don't think that Wright has lumped all caucasians together and views them as evil. As he mentioned, the man who was a great teacher to him was white, and he referred to him in the most respectful terms.

Are Wright's sermons abrasive? Absolutely. But I don't think he is driven by a racist or hateful ideology.

[Burgundy Burner]

I agree with you Burgundy, but I don't think that Wright has lumped all caucasians together and views them as evil. As he mentioned, the man who was a great teacher to him was white, and he referred to him in the most respectful terms.

Are Wright's sermons abrasive? Absolutely. But I don't think he is driven by a racist or hateful ideology.

I've watched the interview and the sermons. We'll just agree to disagree.