Jeremiah Wright on Bill Moyers

[BigMike619]

I get it do, I really do. People get insulted on here and it will usually turn a thread to **** faster then you can blink an eye.

1. I know that Wright has faced racism in his life and that every black man has as well. But his sermons were still hate filled and off the deep end in my opinion. We deserved 9/11? Does he really believe that 3000 people deserved to die or was he just caught up in emotion? I get the latter, but you have to be big enough to admit that if its the case.

2. ****a KKK, skinhead or nazi. They dont represent white people and you and I both know that.

3. I hope you are wrong and this election doesnt become about race. There are far more important things to be concerned about then our skin color. We all are effected by gas prices the same and we all are sick of the same stuff..

[CrabR]

Congratulations for proving that we don't need more of the same, Wright?

Guess two Wright's make a wrong after all

[twa]

Alright, I apologize, but some of his comments were making my blood boil.

1. He was basically suggesting that since Wright went to an integrated school, his life was all gravy. TWA seems to think Wright faced ZERO racism. As proof, he cites the fact that he went to an integrated school and went to a good college. Oh really? His logic is that integrated schools had zero racism. Seriously, does that mean Wright couldn't march with civil rights activists against segregation? Blacks who were born before the civil rights period all faced racism. TWA wants you to believe that Wright was living a good life. You can furnish as much proof as you want, but Wright shares past with his fellow blacks who lived prior to integration. Using TWA's logic, Jews who lived in America during the holocaust can't say anything about the holocaust because their life was more comfortable.

2. Wright, according to the interview yesterday, got death threats after that "inflammatory" video was aired by the media. How many of those threats were from nazis, kkk members and skinheads? And you guys are suggesting that life is all gravy in the 21st century.

3. I have said in the past that Obama was playing the race card to get elected(for example, trying to portray Bill Clinton as racist). This time it's Hillary and Republicans that are playing the race card to ensure Obama loses.

This has become an election about race. Most Whites will be voting republican more than in the past, and most blacks will be voting democrat.

I'm curious how you expanded my comments to say Wright never faced racism?...I really would like to know.

Wright DID have a very good life,filled with opportunity(which he made use of) and has prospered.

I took issue(and still do) at the notion that suffering any negative action entitles him to say anything w/o consequence.

From my earlier link,which you seemed to have ignored

Rather than attend the more racially mixed Germantown High School at 40 East High St., Wright traveled a few miles to the elite Central High School at 1700 West Olney Ave., graduating in 1959. Opened in 1838, Central High has a distinguished past and admits only highly-qualified applicants who are privileged to attend from all over the city. It is comparable to the Bronx High School of Science and Boston Latin School, both public schools known for academic excellence.

When Wright attended Central High, the student body was 90 percent white, according to students who attended around the same time. At least three-quarters of the students were Jewish. Former students of the period say racial tension did not exist.

Bill Cosby, who attended the school until transferring to Germantown High, has referred to Central as a “wonderful” school. In contrast to Wright, Cosby has denounced blacks who take refuge in self-pitying victimhood and seek to blame whites for problems in the black community.

“Central High was a marvelous academic environment,” says Tod Mammuth, who graduated in 1965 and is now a Philadelphia-area lawyer. “You had to have high academic credentials to be accepted and a high IQ score. Many later said it was more rigorous than college. We had no racial friction.”

[redskins59]

I'm curious how you expanded my comments to say Wright never faced racism?...I really would like to know.

Wright DID have a very good life,filled with opportunity(which he made use of) and has prospered.

I took issue(and still do) at the notion that suffering any negative action entitles him to say anything w/o consequence.

He is entitled to talk about racism if he faced racism when he was young. If you listened to what he says(I'm talking about his "offensive remarks") , he ties it to the bible, and also to his race. You're only listning to soundbites and not contextualizing what Wright actually said. Anybody can look like a moron if you loop the same soundbite again and again and again.

Alright, I'm done with this topic. You are entitled to your opinion, I am to mine. I know I offended you by calling you a racist, for which I apologize.

Note that just because he attended a privileged high school doesn't mean that Wright came from a privileged background. His life was a struggle.

[twa]

He is entitled to talk about racism if he faced racism when he was young. If you listened to what he says(I'm talking about his "offensive remarks") , he ties it to the bible, and also to his race. You're only listning to soundbites and not contextualizing what Wright actually said. Anybody can look like a moron if you loop the same soundbite again and again and again.

Alright, I'm done with this topic. You are entitled to your opinion, I am to mine. I know I offended you by calling you a racist, for which I apologize.

Note that just because he attended a privileged high school doesn't mean that Wright came from a privileged background. His life was a struggle.

Accepted,sorry for the extra :laugh:

I have both read and listened to several full sermons of Wright's as well as bulletins he wrote,I have no need for soundbites.

If you look at his life,he grew up in a middle class neighborhood with successful,stable, parents...went to good schools,gained steady employment.

We all should be so blessed.(Yes,I know he suffered from racism,as do we all)

[Jumbo]

Draft day. Time to wake up my brain. Here we go. :laugh:

I believe it is expected and ok for emotions to run high in issues of race and racism black or white (and there is an obvious lesson right there) and leeway in these threads is a good idea. So is getting a grip, eventually. twa is certainly no racial hater. Personally speaking, I appreciated almost everybody’s posts here on the differing sides, with the exception of cjcdamans strutting, (and unprovoked) though lightweight, “attack” on HE. But, he suffered no moderating penalty, of course. It wasn’t that serious, just dumb.

I have a hunch that very few people (if any) in this whole forum approve of blanket hatred of America (though they may hate something their nation has done) or a particular race (though they may hate historical realities of dominant groups), or really believes that blacks haven't suffered beyond belief for generations in this country just because of their race, or doubt that the vast majority of whites living today loathe the facts of that reality.

I can benefit at times by listening to and trying to understand someone’s anger or pain without being defensive even if they are in attack mode and say **** that is upsetting. It depends on the situation, of course and if I think the matter is worthy of the effort.

In the case of Wright, I have been curious to learn more because 80000 of my fellow citizens find him appealing enough in to be a member of his church and because his personal history is hardly some one-sided affair of ignorance, “anti-Americanism”, or bigotry.

More than one good, patriotic, non-racist man I’ve known has talked passionately and justifiably about the dominant racial group (whites) in our (U.S.) troubled history with minorities, and not just regarding African-American or some European immigrants who were also white.

They have also talked about how we imported "coolies" and dealt with slavers in Asia, even helping keep workers addicted, laboring for next to nothing on the railroads, making the richest white men in the nation even richer, and dying by the hundreds in the process--their women, when there, often raped and made to cook and clean for the bosses.

I am aware of how white males as the dominant cultural group of "colonists" took extended ownership of this land from an indigenous people by force of arms in an almost-genocidal policy, corralling them in the end, decimating and breaking their much culture and most of their population.

I am aware of how that dominant group of white males refused women equal say in their government until very recently. These are all (IMO) reprehensible acts in principle and relatively undisputed facts, moderated only minimally by adding complex context. Yet here we are and here we must live.

It is unfortunate that even when a white male recites these matters, in can regularly instill such resistance, denial, and discomfort in some to suspend their reason and integrity to various degrees. Some call this sort of awareness I describe being weak, self-loathing, un-patriotic, or maybe call it being a "p-u-s-s-y" and speak of fondling their genitals (or “set”) like some kind of monkey or cjcdaman.

So I have come to understand (just me) how the anger to whites and white institutions can run deep and broad in people who feel part of the losing side of this equation. They are also likely to be relatively or completely unsympathetic to the white man who, especially when being addressed with these realities, responds with how his life had been tough at times, too. That's unfortunate, even if understandable.

But any person recounting this trail of tears should pay careful attention when another person tells them "But I am not a bigot! I don’t have anything against you just because of your race!” Even if there’s some level of unawareness in the person claiming their innocence, they best be respectfully heard and recognized by the other. Such is in the best interests of those who are members of a repressed minority, IMO.

Another real problem is no matter how legitimate all these racially-based travesties are, to personally extend the anger to all whites individually is, indeed, "reverse" racism, something some used to deny and label as retribution-based anger or anger over injustice. That anger piece is there, too, but if someone is branding each white person in a dialogue as guilty of some serious character flaw by nature of their race, then that is racism. And that is happening. We need to address it, too. This is something I believe Obama, for instance, (no, I’m still voting McCain at this point) has noted.

I am proud of my race, my patriotism, and my national heritage. I know I am a strong and tough man, a smart man, and a good man. I say that not with ego but because I have enough supporting evidence in actual events and that’s what people who know me tell me. I state it to make it clear that as I make these other comments, I do so with absolute personal security in who and what I am. Thus, I can see, accept, and acknowledge many disturbing things about myself, my country, my race, and gender without losing strength, patriotism, self-worth, or self-confidence. Apparently some can’t or just won’t.

And every time I study or experience people of other backgrounds to any depth, their racial and cultural history reveal numerous qualities I value and appreciate. It tends to make my world bigger and more enjoyable.

I often find much value in attempting to listen and understand those I disagree with, even passionately, when I can get myself to do it. Though I still draw lines (as mardigras and PeterMP appeal for) at points short of being all-inclusive, I will also strive to exercise the patience and self-control it takes to allow a dialogue and maybe eventual respect, even when all that comes so hard. Once some mutual respect between seriously conflicting points of views can be established, if merited, cooperation and improvements in a variety of situations often follow. To me, that’s an attitude and a process that also takes serious strength and serious “balls.”

So these are among the reasons I was still interested in what more I might learn of Wright and by extension, those who support him. I don't even write all this just about Wright ( ), really, but about several related overarching topics as well. And, related to your comment, 33, even after such effort, I will be surprised if it changes my view of where Wright's message goes seriously astray. I don't need to have an actual change of my views to benefit from the effort. But if it does change, I will say so.

[headexplode]

Wow, this thread didn't get as bad as I thought it might.

To BigMike and twa, I think your concerns are perfectly reasonable, and I don't agree with redskins59s contention that one who experienced racism in the past is somehow given the right to speak racism in the present.

However, I don't see Wright as racist. I don't see him as "unAmerican." I don't see him as saying that 3,000 people deserved to be killed on 9/11. He has said that god condemns the United States government for its past racist policies, for the murder of innocent people, etc. One may not agree with this viewpoint. Personally, as I'm agnostic, I don't really think there is a god up there to condemn any government. My own views don't necessarily align with those of Wright's, but then again, I don't see the world through his eyes.

We don't always have to agree with people to respect them or at the least tolerate them, or even to try to understand their perspective. Wright speaks to blacks as being "different not deficient," suggesting to me that he does not view blacks as being superior to any other race. I don't see anywhere in his views the idea that all whites are racist. He may being saying that whites cannot know what it is to be black, and I think that's completely accurate. Just like I can't know what it is like to be Jewish, or Muslim, or Asian, etc.

I think it is unfair to put Wright in the same category as a KKK member, or a neo-Nazi, or even a Robertson or Falwell. To him, politics and religion are inseperable and deeply rooted in one's personal experiences. Indeed, the bible is filled with politics, murder, betrayal, rape, enslavement. One cannot speak honestly about god and the world he created without talking about all the bad stuff.

Further, I think it important to note that Wright was not "dissing" Obama. He simply, like any good public speaker, knows his audience, as Obama knows his. Wright preaches to a black baptist church, and to issues his audience cares about. Obama is a politician and must, as Dan T. said, filter what he says with that in mind. Wright's tone and tenor was vastly different with Bill Moyers than it is when he is on the pulpit.

Again, I am neither endorsing nor rejecting Wright's views. I am asking that people judge him fairly and as accurately as possible, and that we keep the discussion civil.

PS To Burgold and Jumbo, your thoughts are always a sight for sore eyes. The humility and respectfullness to which you address any subject, no matter how divisive, set a high standard that few can reach.

PSS To all my fellow Redskins fans, draft day is here, and let's hope that we choose wisely.

[Jumbo]

I appreciate the kind woirds, HE, but I have often been a stubborn ******* who has had too many fights of all kinds in his life that can't be reasonably justified, so don't develop unrealisitic expectations.

And at this point I still reject Wright's choices in message as not being anywhere near the smartest ones I believe he had the capacity to make. He may speak to some audiences effectively and in understandable tone and content, and he may have done many good things, but he could have served an even larger purpose socially, spiritually, and politically, IMO with some less self-serving and comparatively short-sighted choices. Just my opinion.

[headexplode]

And at this point I still reject Wright's choices in message as not being anywhere near the smartest ones I believe he had the capacity to make. He may speak to some audiences effectively and in understandable tone and content, and he may have done many good things, but he could have served an even larger purpose socially, spiritually, and politically, IMO with some less self-serving and comparatively short-sighted choices. Just my opinion.

I think that is a fair assessment. My initial reaction to Wright was negative, I just don't believe he deserves the amount of vitriol that has been sent his way. He has radical views and he expresses them in radical ways. Still, I don't see him as being inspired by hatred.

Bitterness, maybe? I mean, he certainly is clinging to god.