Sociological question about Skins fans in DC

[Larry Brown #43]

The small crowd for the second game ever played in the Nats new stadium last night, along with the surge in local interest in the Caps thanks to their recent playoff push, got me thinking about the Skins.

First off, I'm a DC native. Born and raised here, and still live here.

History has shown that Washington is a front-running town when it comes to sports. Back in the 80s when the Bullets stunk, they'd be lucky to get 8,000 fans in the building for a game, unless Larry Bird or Magic Johnson happened to be in town. In which case, 75% of the arena would be pulling for the Bullets' opponent.

Interest in the Caps spikes when they perform the way they have over the past few weeks, but otherwise, they barely register on local sports scene.

And now that the novelty of having baseball back in town has worn off, with the Nats having yet to establish themselves as contenders in the National League, the Nats drew only (an announced) 20,000 fans last night, in the second game ever played in their new ballpark.

There are plenty of explanations for this. One might point to the "transient" nature of DC as a reason why people don't establish strong bonds with the local teams.

But one team in this town bucks the trend. One team captures the imagination of this town, even when Heath Shuler is under center. One team enjoys rabid support even when Steve Spurrier can't remember the names of his own players.

Our Skins.

That's what this thread is about. I have my own theories, but I'd like to hear from you. Why is it that in this supposed front-running, transient town, that the Skins enjoy such loyal support regardless of their fortunes on the field?

Sure, we've won Super Bowls. But if this town is as transient as people claim it is, how many in DC actually remember those glory days?

Personally, I think the idea of DC being a transient town is overrated. There is a segment of the town (mostly political types) that is transient, but there are many who live in and around the city who have been here for generations.

When I hear people say that "nobody is actually from DC," I think of all the kids I went to school with, who were from here just as I was.

Anyway, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. What is it about our beloved Skins that grabs hold of this town and won't let go, while the other local teams have to practically dominate to even come close to filling up their buildings?

[TheDarb]

The Skins have been in DC since 1937. The other teams haven't. The Skins have won Championships. The other teams have one total and that was 30 years ago.

[EddieF]

I've always felt like Washington's reputation as a 'great sports town' was overrated, if not outright wrong. I've been to Bullets and Wizards and Caps games where I felt like a heavily outnumbered visitor, rather than a home fan.

And when everyone kept kicking and screaming to get a baseball team here, I wondered how many people would go to games.

The fact that there are a lot of corporate seats for these sports explains why you'll get the mild mannered accountant who's taking his family to the Caps game because he got employee of the month, sitting next to six rabid Ranger fans who are dominating the entire section. But the corporate ratio is probably the same at FedEx Field. So, I guess my answer is, I don't know why it's different with the Skins.

Uh, nevermind then.

[Larry Brown #43]

The Skins have been in DC since 1937. The other teams haven't. The Skins have won Championships. The other teams have one total and that was 30 years ago.

True, those are all facts. But if you buy into the notion that DC is a transient town, those championships would only matter so much, since most people weren't around here in those years anyway.

I generally agree with you, but I'm playing devil's advocate here. There are teams in other towns and in other sports that have enjoyed just as much success as the Skins, if not more, yet they don't enjoy the support the Skins do here.

Right up the road from here, the Orioles have won three World Series, yet they're drawing a paltry 10,000 a night. Poor comparison for a variety of reasons, I admit, but I'm trying to dig a little deeper here.

We have people in DC who are from various parts of the country, and various parts of the world, yet this town's devotion to the Skins remains strong.

[AKM311]

One the NFL is a much more popular sport in America these days. Thats why you see the craziest fans at NFL games around all states.

Of course having 3 championships compared to one in the other sports, but second and most important factor is DC was a blue-collar city for a long time. If you notice the other cities like that all have rabid football fans. `While there are more corporate people that came from other cities, the primary home base of fans are still the old-school fans. But thats why at the stadium you are seeing a mix, because out of towners, are trying to become fans or enemies as they see how much strong the Redskins bond is with the area.

You will how this site affect fans in 10 years when all these 13-17 year olds are 10 years older and will have a strong bond for the team even though they may or may not have been born here.

[Larry Brown #43]

Of course having 3 championships compared to one in the other sports, but second and most important factor is DC was a blue-collar city for a long time. If you notice the other cities like that all have rabid football fans. `While there are more corporate people that came from other cities, the primary home base of fans are still the old-school fans.

Good stuff here. Interesting thoughts, thanks. I agree that many or most of the white-collar folks in DC are from elsewhere, while the more blue-collar crowd are the natives.

[TheDarb]

3? I thought we had 5.

[Captain James]

3? I thought we had 5.

True, 3 superbowls and 5 overall championships. :logo:

[AKM311]

Good stuff here. Interesting thoughts, thanks. I agree that many or most of the white-collar folks in DC are from elsewhere, while the more blue-collar crowd are the natives.

Thanks. Also the people who are coming here are also having children here. Meaning a majority of them will start liking the Skins as well.

[Peregrine]

Theres sports in this area, and then there is the Redskins.

I think the popularity of the Skins is due to several factors. First, they do have a winning history, and a rich tradition. This is what gets a team through the tough years. Second, at least the FO of the Redskins, no matter how poorly they make execute their plan, attempt to build a winning team. Fans see this, and appreciate this. Third, the Redskins have at least been competitive at times over the past decade. With many local sports teams this isnt the case.

I love baseball, and I used to love the Orioles. But now its a team of players I can't name, where anybody who ever shows any talent immediately gets traded. Peter Angelos doesnt want to win, he wants money. The team hasnt had a winning season in a decade. I think it all went downhill when fans saw Angelos for what he really was, when he fired Davey Johnson the year he won manager of the year. The orioles used to average 40k fans per game. Now they are pulling in 10-15k. The Nats are no better. The team doesnt win, the owner doesnt seem to even try, players seem to come and go, and fans are just tired of being fleeced.

The Wizards had been in much of the same boat for years. Players come and go, the team didnt win for a long time. Now they finally are a competitive team(though players still do come and go), so at least they are headed in the right direction. The Capitals are probably the most promising out of all of the local teams. For a long time they have been a team who couldnt win, and whos best players got shipped out year in and year out. Now they look like a team with an identity, a young fun player to watch in Ovechkin, and a future.

Its not just enough to be a sports team. The team needs to be competitive, it needs to give fans a sense of trying, it needs to give fans players to root for year in and year out, it needs to give them a sense that there is hope for the future. It sure doesnt hurt to have a rich tradition like the Redskins. With the Redskins, as bad as they have been at times, they have at least always given fans a sense that the team was trying, there was hope for the future, and their favorite players would be there the next year.

[dfitzo53]

Thanks. Also the people who are coming here are also having children here. Meaning a majority of them will start liking the Skins as well.

But that doesn't explain why they shouldn't support the Nats or Caps or Wizards, other than the fact that football is so popular in general.

[DjTj]

The Skins have been in DC since 1937. The other teams haven't. The Skins have won Championships. The other teams have one total and that was 30 years ago.

This is it. 1937.

The Bullets did not move to Washington until 1973. The Capitals were founded in 1974. There was no baseball team in the District between 1971 and 2005.

The Redskins have decades on any other team in Washington. There is no other sport in Washington where three generations of fans could be fans of the same team. Loyalty to the Redskins runs deep in families here, and the Redskins have worked themselves deep into Washington's culture.

It definitely helps that the Redskins have won championships, but I think it's really just a matter of longevity. The Redskins have been here longer than any other pro team. They have been ours the longest, so the love is deepest.

[Rob Mexico]

It's because football is the best sport ever and the Redskins are the best franchise EVER!!!

HAIL!!!

[Fifty Gut]

because it's football, the world's greatest sport

baseball and basketball don't even come close, let alone hockey, to touching the greatness of football

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

A. The Redskins dominance in the local culture began in the late 60s with my big brother. This is also when the NFL's dominance in the overall culture began.

B. The NFL sells out everywhere. At least it does, in most cities. The Browns probably have the most passionate fans in all of sports. And they haven't won a damn thing in 50 years...and aren't even watching the "Original Browns."

C. Supply and demand. Baseball gives you 81 chances a year to see a home game - and most of those when it does rainy and cold. The Redskins give you 8. And even at that, I don't think the demand is quite what the Skins make it out to be.

[Taylor 36]

This is it. 1937.

The Bullets did not move to Washington until 1973. The Capitals were founded in 1974. There was no baseball team in the District between 1971 and 2005.

The Redskins have decades on any other team in Washington. There is no other sport in Washington where three generations of fans could be fans of the same team. Loyalty to the Redskins runs deep in families here, and the Redskins have worked themselves deep into Washington's culture.

It definitely helps that the Redskins have won championships, but I think it's really just a matter of longevity. The Redskins have been here longer than any other pro team. They have been ours the longest, so the love is deepest.

I don't buy it. 1973 for the Bullets? That is 35 years. That is more than enough time to attrack loyal local fans. The Carolina Panthers haven't been around for a third of that amount of time, nor have they won a Sper Bowl Championship, yet they have a very loyal fanbase.

IT has to be because Washington is a Football Town. Nothing more, nothing less.

[scruffylookin]

I do agree that the Redskins rule the area because of three simple reasons.

1. They are a football team and football is the most popular sport in the land and the nature of the sport makes every game that much more important.

2. They are the oldest team in the area, by nearly 40 years.

3. Most of the fans who now makeup the fanbase know the Skins as a winner. The Skins were among the top teams in the NFL in the 70's and 80's and it's that history and those memories that most of us hold dear.

But this is not to say that the Skins have not shown vulnerabilities like the other sports teams.

If the Skins struggle, attendance drops dramatically for the late season games. At JKC attendance goes from 90K down to the high 60's. Also you get a large number of rival fans showing up (just like the Wiz and Caps). This problem also manifested itself at RFK. When the Skins stunk in 93 & 94, they were barely getting 40K to some of those December games. So some of the critique of the Wiz and Caps with regards to fan support can also be leveled at the Skins too if/when they stuggle like those two franchises have at times in the past.

I guess since football is my favorite sport and the Skins the top dog in my sporting fan life for as long as I can remember it's not something I think about. I just don't think DC is all that different from other towns with football teams.

I guess my question would be, is there a city that has a professional football team (or even big time college football team) that supports another professional sports team in their town better than their football team? I just consider the sport of football so dominant that pretty much every town that has a team, supports it better than any other franchise they have. Off the top of my head the only town that might buck the trend is Boston with the Redsox.

[No_Pressure]

You gotta think about the skins in terms of their history in Washington...they used to be the only NFL team broadcast in the southern united states. As a result, PG/Montgomery counties in MD, all of VA, WV, and some of the Carolinas are Redskins loyal. Couple that with the fact that they have achieved more than any other team in the entire area, and have been in town far longer than any other team without undergoing some sort of massive change (Bullets -> Wizards, etc.)

[RBClintonPortis]

A. The Redskins dominance in the local culture began in the late 60s with my big brother. This is also when the NFL's dominance in the overall culture began.

B. The NFL sells out everywhere. At least it does' date=' in most cities. The Browns probably have the most passionate fans in all of sports. And they haven't won a damn thing in 50 years...and aren't even watching the "Original Browns."

C. Supply and demand. Baseball gives you 81 chances a year to see a home game - and most of those when it does rainy and cold. The Redskins give you 8. And even at that, I don't think the demand is quite what the Skins make it out to be.[/quote']

Let me Amen this - attendance at NFL games far far outpaces any other game, anywhere. Its true you can find a town or two that favors its baseball team over football - but it is really rare.

There are books written on why this is but the thing that is consistant is TV. Football is just way better on TV. Add to that from the 70's on for most people the only way to follow sports was thru TV and I think you see part of why the Redskins dominate this landscape - I'm saying partially at least it is an American phenomenon & not a DC one

[skinsince72]

Let me Amen this - attendance at NFL games far far outpaces any other game, anywhere. Its true you can find a town or two that favors its baseball team over football - but it is really rare.

There are books written on why this is but the thing that is consistant is TV. Football is just way better on TV. Add to that from the 70's on for most people the only way to follow sports was thru TV and I think you see part of why the Redskins dominate this landscape - I'm saying partially at least it is an American phenomenon & not a DC one

I think you are right. The NFL has turned into a Mega Machine. I think the NFL execs are scrambling to either contain it or find new ways to market it. Now we have games played in London or Japan or where ever.

With that being said, let's say the Nationals go on to win the next 3 World Series. I still do not think the town would be as near as passionate about the Nats than it is about the Skins. The Redskins are to DC what Jordan was to the Bulls. It's life blood.

[DjTj]

I don't buy it. 1973 for the Bullets? That is 35 years. That is more than enough time to attrack loyal local fans. The Carolina Panthers haven't been around for a third of that amount of time, nor have they won a Sper Bowl Championship, yet they have a very loyal fanbase.

IT has to be because Washington is a Football Town. Nothing more, nothing less.

But Washington isn't really a football town. This isn't like Florida or Alabama where people are crazy about high school and college football ... the Tidewater has produced some big-name athletes, but nobody thinks of Washington as a fertile recruiting ground.

If anything, we are a basketball town, with a nationally-recognized high school program like DeMatha and championship college teams like Georgetown and Maryland. When I think of DC, I think of blacktops and basketball, not Friday night football games.

DC is not a football town. DC is a Redskins town.

Part of that is the popularity of the NFL, but that's definitely not true in every city. The Red Sox are more popular than the Patriots, the Yankees more popular than the Giants, the Cardinals more popular than the Rams, the Suns more popular than the Cardinals, the Pistons and Red Wings are more popular than the Lions ... Los Angeles doesn't even want an NFL team.

The Redskins just have a special history in Washington. It is a longer history, it has had many championships, and the Redskins are just become part of the culture here. In the same way the Giants and Patriots will never be number one in their towns no matter how many championships they win, the Nats, Wizards, and Capitals will never be able to compete with the Redskins. This is a Redskins town, and it will always be that way.

[Hamilbone13]

OK. It doesn't take a marketing genius (I'm not, but do have an MBA in marketing) to realize that a winning (good) product draws the consumer...of course, a few other things factor in (such as cost, demand, etc.). Joe Gibbs created a product in the 80's and early 90's that created a high demand. In fact, I was 12 years old when my mom put my name on the season ticket list, and it took 17 years to get my tickets. Of course, once Norv fielded a crap product, the waiting period flew by. That's the story with the Skins. Gibbs coming back was another brillian marketing move by Snyder (along with the splurging of free agent signings of past years). If Zorn starts losing and is held in place for any extended period, those of you still waiting for season tickets may just get a call.

The Nats ownership has started in the wrong direction, at least in the short term. People could care less about a fancy stadium when the team absolutely stinks.

The Caps, well, you could walk directly to the "will call" window earlier in the season and get good seats. Insert the hype of an awesome win streak and the best player (maybe ever) and the chances of getting a ticket at face value is slim.

Bottom line - put a good product on the field and it will sell. "If you build it, they will come."

[Taylor 36]

But Washington isn't really a football town. This isn't like Florida or Alabama where people are crazy about high school and college football ... the Tidewater has produced some big-name athletes, but nobody thinks of Washington as a fertile recruiting ground.

If anything, we are a basketball town, with a nationally-recognized high school program like DeMatha and championship college teams like Georgetown and Maryland. When I think of DC, I think of blacktops and basketball, not Friday night football games.

DC is not a football town. DC is a Redskins town.

Part of that is the popularity of the NFL, but that's definitely not true in every city. The Red Sox are more popular than the Patriots, the Yankees more popular than the Giants, the Cardinals more popular than the Rams, the Suns more popular than the Cardinals, the Pistons and Red Wings are more popular than the Lions ... Los Angeles doesn't even want an NFL team.

The Redskins just have a special history in Washington. It is a longer history, it has had many championships, and the Redskins are just become part of the culture here. In the same way the Giants and Patriots will never be number one in their towns no matter how many championships they win, the Nats, Wizards, and Capitals will never be able to compete with the Redskins. This is a Redskins town, and it will always be that way.

I understand what you're saying, but at the professional level, DC is a football, or Redskins town. But, Football is now the major sport in the country, so it is not surprising that our nation's capital would be all about their NFL franchise.

[CrypticVillain]

I like football better then aloo of the other sports. There fore I like the Redskins more then the other teams. Plus Football is simple and it has a lot of action in it. Basketball is good but it has to be a close game. I saw plenty of blowouts in football that was entertaining. Baseball is too boring, and Hockey is not fun enough.

Plus I think the the fact that there are so little games in a season makes football special. I love spending Sundays watching Redskins games at home with Family and friends. Nothing else makes me feel better.

[CRobi21]

It's because football is the best sport ever and the Redskins are the best franchise EVER!!!

HAIL!!!

BOOM. There's your answer! :applause: