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Jordy Nelson

Leon Phelps

By Leon Phelps
in The Stadium

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MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted
Sorry but as bad as our lines are, we don't need to use any of the first 4 picks on anything other then the lines.

While I agree we need help on both lines there is just no way we are taking 4 lineman in the first 3 rounds.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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Hey Jimbo, great to hear from you. Believe it or not... I've actually been thinking of your recently. There's a course in Colorado that I was thinking about taking in the near future... might need a place to crash :) And we can certainly hang out too :)

Back to the point... did ANYONE predict the Patriots selecting Logan Mankins in the 1st round a few years ago? Hope. In fact, no one even heard of the dude. But there he was.... a 1st round selection.

What happened to that Michigan Wolverine DT that was projected to go top 15 last year - the one that all Redskins fans wanted to draft last season - and ended up being drafted in the 4th round by the Cardinals?

The first round is already difficult enough to project. To guess anything in the 2nd round and beyond is completely ridiculous. So to say that a player is a reach in the 2nd and 3rd rounds is completely ridiculous and dumb.

You grab a player where ever you have him ranked.... not where he's projected by Mel Kiper.

Have you ever heard Mel Kiper tell you ANYBODY in the first round is going to be a bust? Does he ever tell you a top 10 pick is going to flop? Even though at least 5 will every draft? Never.

That's why mock drafts are idiotic.... and a complete waste of time. Even a waste of time talking about it.

I think you are missing the point of the mock draft talk. When people make mock drafts, they aren't trying to predict which players will have the best careers, they are trying to predict how teams will draft. Theoretically, one could figure out how the entire draft would proceed if they had access to every team's draft board. Thus, what mock drafters are really trying to do is guess how teams have players ranked and how they have ordered their boards. It's not stupid, it's just incredibly hard without actually looking at the boards. The fun is in trying to figure out who the Redskins will draft before the draft actually takes place, and going over whether we think the scenarios would achieve positive or negative results. No one seriously expects to get the whole draft right, it's just a fun way of looking at potential future members of your team.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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Say, we land Albert in round 1 and in round 2 Calias Campbell and Jordy Nelson are both on the board. Who do you take? I would go Campbell. I think there will be some nice WR's in round 3. Im on the boat of trading back if Albert is gone. If we had 3 2nds i would have no problem taking Nelson but only if Sweed, Kelly, Hardy, and Thomas are off the board.

I agree with you, but perhaps some more names should be added to that list. I think Mario Manningham has been written off too much. If he is there in the second round and the team is jonesing for a receiver, I think they should take him over Nelson. Some of the scouts are comparing his situation to Chad Johnson's when he was coming out of college.

The DL and OL are more important than WR or CB. If quality players for either line are there in 1st and 2nd, you take them.

I would like to see OL rd 1, DE rd 2, DT rd. 3, WR rd. 3.

I agree with you there, but only if that would mean we had taken the best player available in all those picks. This is also in line with what Randy Thomas was saying about the line needing to be prioritized. I understand the reasoning behind valuing the lines as they are the closest units to the ball at the start of every play, but that doesn't mean we should forget about the offensive skill positions because, after all, they are the ones that score the touchdowns. I agree that the lines need to start being replenished though, but its not going to happen all at once and it shouldn't. I think it'd be OK if they drafted 2 to 3 linemen a year for the next 3 years, where not all of those picks came in the first three rounds.

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shallyshal

shallyshal

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I don't know why I find this thread humorous, but it reminds me of some debates last year about how black QBs are only compared to other black QBs.

Why does it seem like Nelson is being compared to only other white receivers? :laugh:

Not singling you out, just found it funny.

because that is what he is.. like corners, there arent a lot of white players who play the position in the nfl. and most white receivers are simply not burners.

a few, like collingsworth, were track stars in college. most arent and have to develop a different skill set.

qb is entirely different because for decades blacks werent allowed to compete for the position in the nfl. nobody is saying that nelson cant compete because of his skin color, but thus far, his times dont put him in a class with guys like thomas.. if you think he is comparable to any other receiver in the nfl, black or white, fine...

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texasthunder

texasthunder

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I agree with you, but perhaps some more names should be added to that list. I think Mario Manningham has been written off too much. If he is there in the second round and the team is jonesing for a receiver, I think they should take him over Nelson. Some of the scouts are comparing his situation to Chad Johnson's when he was coming out of college.

QUOTE]

Steve-

Have to disagree here. Super Mario is only 6' and 185 lbs, and is not known as a physical player. Which I think is what is needed for the split end position.

Now if we traded for a top notch split end, then Mario might be a good choice as a back up to Moss. Ya know, just in case he gets injured ;)

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[[ghost]]

[[ghost]]

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Jordy Nelson is a better pick in the second than Kelly, Thomas, or Sweed in the first. Kelly has injury concerns, Sweed has production concerns (say what you will about his wrist but he didn't play well against any decent teams), and Thomas is not convincing. Jordy may never be great but he will be good and could be very good. He will play smart and catch the ball.

Sweed in the 1st>>>> Nelson in the 2nd.

Nelson is a 3rd Rounder at best. There is a reason he's considered a Mid Rounder by most scouts. Lets not waste a pick on him in the 2nd when we could get quality OL or DB, maybe even DE in the 2nd if we land Sweed in the 1st.

I am on that bandwagon 100% James Hardy in the 2nd round "The next Plaxico" James Hardy

Much rather have Hardy than Nelson. Hardy would be perfect here.

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Redskins4ever

Redskins4ever

Posted
Posted
]']Sweed in the 1st>>>> Nelson in the 2nd.

Nelson is a 3rd Rounder at best. There is a reason he's considered a Mid Rounder by most scouts. Lets not waste a pick on him in the 2nd when we could get quality OL or DB' date=' maybe even DE in the 2nd if we land Sweed in the 1st.

Much rather have Hardy than Nelson. Hardy would be perfect here.[/quote']

The thing that Nelson lacks is speed. That's why he's projected to be selected in the third round but I have a feeling someone will draft him higher than that.He's basically a big Dwight Clark. Overall, I think Sweed, Kelly, and Nelson are on the same level.

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Burgundy Burner

Burgundy Burner

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If we go DE in the 1st like many think we will (and Vinny recently suggested that it is a priority), then WR will become an issue in rounds two and three. There is a chance that Sweed could fall to the 'Skins pick in the 2nd, but that is unlikely - if it happens, we should grab him.

Hardy will be gone by our 2nd round pick, so that is a moot point. Kelly could be there in the 2nd round too - his health issues seem to be a huge concern now. Even if Kelly is there, I hope the 'Skins take a pass due to these issues. However, I think there is a team out there who will make Kelly their pick before the Redskins are on the clock.

That brings us to Nelson. Does he fall that far to us in the 3rd? My best, opinionated guess is no. Since the Redskins have a pick in the latter portion of the 2nd round, Nelson could be a good pick here. Like others have said, I have a feeling that Nelson could produce a Wes Welker type of production - but even better due to his size. It's a difficult scenario, but Vinny may have no other choice at that juncture.

Too, with our 2nd round pick, there could be four or five players who projected to be 1st rounders and slide to our position. They would merit serious consideration, depending on position and team needs. Then, if Nelson is a target, the best we could hope for is having him fall to our slot in the 3rd round. If Jordy Nelson is there, then it is a no-brainer.

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MartinC

MartinC

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Steve-

Have to disagree here. Super Mario is only 6' and 185 lbs, and is not known as a physical player. Which I think is what is needed for the split end position.

Now if we traded for a top notch split end, then Mario might be a good choice as a back up to Moss. Ya know, just in case he gets injured ;)

Having someone with some size at receiver would be a good thing but its more important that you have someone who can get open and catch the ball. Its production which matters not size per se.

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mistertim

mistertim

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I would think that a high charecter guy like Jordy Nelson just moved up the Bengal's draft board in the past day or 2. I doubt they would pass on him in round 3. I think the Redskins will need to take him in round 2 if they want him.

I don't get it. When someone around here says "we should draft Sweed at 21 if he is there" so many people cry out "reach! that is a reach!" even though he is projected as a 1st rounder in most mocks, and if you think he is going to get past the Bills, the Eagles, the Skins, the Cowboys, the Titans and the 49ers, all of whom need a (young) big talented WR, then you are kidding yourself. The current trend in the media groupthink is "he isn't a 1st round talent" and it is just echoed around here even though right after his very good pro day most people were saying the opposite.

Anyway, people do that with Sweed. But then act like it isn't a "reach" to take a guy who is a projected 3rd rounder with our 2nd round pick just because we don't want a team ahead of us to get him. You think 2nd round picks aren't extremely valuable? This draft is so deep in the lines that we could get a possible stud for a steal there. Jordy is a high character guy, and that is great. So is Sweed. He works hard as hell, studies tape of great NFL WRs to try to pick things up from them, and does whatever is asked of him without question.

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RDSKNfaithfull

RDSKNfaithfull

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I don't get it. When someone around here says "we should draft Sweed at 21 if he is there" so many people cry out "reach! that is a reach!" even though he is projected as a 1st rounder in most mocks, and if you think he is going to get past the Bills, the Eagles, the Skins, the Cowboys, the Titans and the 49ers, all of whom need a (young) big talented WR, then you are kidding yourself. The current trend in the media groupthink is "he isn't a 1st round talent" and it is just echoed around here even though right after his very good pro day most people were saying the opposite.

Anyway, people do that with Sweed. But then act like it isn't a "reach" to take a guy who is a projected 3rd rounder with our 2nd round pick just because we don't want a team ahead of us to get him. You think 2nd round picks aren't extremely valuable? This draft is so deep in the lines that we could get a possible stud for a steal there. Jordy is a high character guy, and that is great. So is Sweed. He works hard as hell, studies tape of great NFL WRs to try to pick things up from them, and does whatever is asked of him without question.

I'm against picking Sweed because it takes a reciever more time to learn the WCO and our first pick should have a bit more of a impact right away. Plus the guy is a 5 year sr. who never set the NCAA on fire. He is a lot of potential and is nowhere close to the player Roy Williams was he is more of a Charles Rogers prospect in my eyes.

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mistertim

mistertim

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I'm against picking Sweed because it takes a reciever more time to learn the WCO and our first pick should have a bit more of a impact right away. Plus the guy is a 5 year sr. who never set the NCAA on fire. He is a lot of potential and is nowhere close to the player Roy Williams was he is more of a Charles Johnson prospect in my eyes.

Actually I'd say Sweed is more polished and Jordy is more raw. Jordy has only been playing receiver for 3 years. Jordy this season wound up with 11 TDs. Sweed had 12 TDs his Junior year, and that is with 3 times less catches and 2 times less yards than Jordy had this past season. That sorta screams "playmaker" to me. Plax didn't get insane yards this year; he barely broke 1,000. But he had 12 TDs in regular season play. And this was while not completely healthy. In the NFL Jordy isn't going to be getting 122 catches to work with the like he did this past season in college. I'd rather take the guy who is a TD machine but also has the high character and is a very hard worker like Jordy is (one of the reasons I'm not that high on Hardy).

Jordy is probably going to be more of a slot guy in the NFL. We have a slot guy. We need a split end and that is what Sweed is. Jordy doesn't seem like much of a redzone threat despite his height. He had a 31 inch vertical which isn't very good for a WR; he isn't going to be able to out jump NFL CBs with that. You want your split end to be able to create mismatches with his height, athleticism, etc. Going up and getting jump balls in the red zone and downfield. He may only be an inch or so taller than Jordy but he had a 37.5 inch vertical.

Also...what makes you think Jordy could pick up our WCO faster than Sweed? That doesn't make much sense to me.

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RDSKNfaithfull

RDSKNfaithfull

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Actually I'd say Sweed is more polished and Jordy is more raw. Jordy has only been playing receiver for 3 years. Jordy this season wound up with 11 TDs. Sweed had 12 TDs his Junior year, and that is with 3 times less catches and 2 times less yards than Jordy had this past season. That sorta screams "playmaker" to me. Plax didn't get insane yards this year; he barely broke 1,000. But he had 12 TDs in regular season play. And this was while not completely healthy. In the NFL Jordy isn't going to be getting 122 catches to work with the like he did this past season in college. I'd rather take the guy who is a TD machine but also has the high character and is a very hard worker like Jordy is (one of the reasons I'm not that high on Hardy).

Jordy is probably going to be more of a slot guy in the NFL. We have a slot guy. We need a split end and that is what Sweed is. Jordy doesn't seem like much of a redzone threat despite his height. He had a 31 inch vertical which isn't very good for a WR; he isn't going to be able to out jump NFL CBs with that. You want your split end to be able to create mismatches with his height, athleticism, etc. Going up and getting jump balls in the red zone and downfield. He may only be an inch or so taller than Jordy but he had a 37.5 inch vertical.

Also...what makes you think Jordy could pick up our WCO faster than Sweed? That doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm not screaming for Jordy either but if he is there in the 3rd he seems like a option.

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