Corcaigh Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Is there a 3rd option, Alex? "I promise I'll never drink again"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I wonder what the thought process is to select "Abducted by satanists and brainwashed" over "Abducted by aliens and anally probed". How about living in actual reality devoid of fictitious beings which make my own existence irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. . . Funny though, I am not a satanist, and I haven't been brainwashed. . .in fact I am the complete opposite of brainwashed because I will actually look at an issue from all possible sides. . .and yes, religion is one area I have come to the rational conclusion it is all bull :pooh: . . . every last religion is full of crap, but that is a topic for another day. As I mentioned before, it is easy to BS Americans, heck over 85% of us think we were created from some imaginary omniscient being who knows our every thought and move, yet we ignore volumes of evidence that contradicts this belief. If you already have a population with a mindset that will believe anything you can tell them, you can do what you want. . .heck, you can even start a war by telling people someone will attack you who isn't a threat. . .oh wait, already did that :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Is there a 3rd option, Alex? I'll take cryptozology for $1000 please Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 .but then again, how many people believe in the bible so I guess it is expected Touche. And yet, while I can generally cite qualified, respected academics working in a relevant field to support my points regarding the Bible, of the two of us, only one has cited Acharya S (a prime example of the unqualified hack that no serious academic generally even bothers to respond to) as a source in a discussion, and I don't think it was me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Well chomerics, I gotta admit, I'm surprised. I had no idea you thought religion was bs. (maybe you should just put it in your sig? It ends up at the bottom of all your posts anyways, no matter what the subject) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Funny, I am not a satanist, and I haven't been brainwashed. . .in fact I am the complete opposite of brainwashed because I will actually look at an issue from all possible sides. I don't think those are the only choices :laugh: You missed this thread about an Indiana preacher a few days ago: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241140 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Touche. And yet, while I can generally cite qualified, respected academics working in a relevant field to support my points regarding the Bible, of the two of us, only one has cited Acharya S (a prime example of the unqualified hack that no serious academic generally even bothers to respond to) as a source in a discussion, and I don't think it was me. It is all a matter of who you consider as a qualified and respected academic, and who is not. Yes, I used a source which I should have researched more, but the single time I do, it is scrutinized to the hilt, yet people such as KB use sources all the time who lack credentials and are ignored. If you posed half the vehement towards your side at using hacks, as you do to others, maybe you would be taken more seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I don't think those are the only choices :laugh:You missed this thread about an Indiana preacher a few days ago: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241140 Ahhh, yea I missed that one. . .shoot sounds like it would have been right up my alley too :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I will only add that no matter what the controversy is, skeptics read the debunk before they read the theory. Believers will read the theory and not even read the debunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Well chomerics, I gotta admit, I'm surprised. I had no idea you thought religion was bs. (maybe you should just put it in your sig? It ends up at the bottom of all your posts anyways, no matter what the subject) And you don't think religion, or the psyche of a person who believes in religion, should be used in relation to someone who says they have seen or have been abducted by aliens? Do you see the connection in believing in things that don't exist, and people being gullible enough to buy a load of BS like they were abducted and anally probed? Oh yea, and BTW, close your eyes and picture an alien. let me guess, greenish yellow skin, bald, big black eyes. . . if we have never discovered aliens before, how come we all see the same thing when thinking of an alien? Take your time and think about that one for a while. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 If you posed half the vehement towards your side at using hacks, as you do to others, maybe you would be taken more seriously I think if you took a poll on ES, there is probably no other poster in the history of this website who is taken more seriously than techboy. Of course, he makes you look downright foolish lots of times, so it doesn't surprise me that you've resorted to this kind of thing. It's really your only option. That, or admit you were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Oh yea, and BTW, close your eyes and picture an alien. let me guess, greenish yellow skin, bald, big black eyes. . . if we have never discovered aliens before, how come we all see the same thing when thinking of an alien? Take your time and think about that one for a while. . . chom did you take your meds this morning? Seriously, wtf? Here I spend the entire thread debunking this alien stuff, and you come in with a post like this? Wow dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Oh yea, and BTW, close your eyes and picture an alien. let me guess, greenish yellow skin, bald, big black eyes. . . if we have never discovered aliens before, how come we all see the same thing when thinking of an alien? Take your time and think about that one for a while. . .I blame Hanna-Barbera ... Maybe Warner Brothers too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 And you don't think religion, or the psyche of a person who believes in religion, should be used in relation to someone who says they have seen or have been abducted by aliens? Do you see the connection in believing in things that don't exist, and people being gullible enough to buy a load of BS like they were abducted and anally probed? I think I see where you are going here. The UFO legend has become a "religion." It comes down to belief just like the topic of God/gods. This is very true if that's what you meant. Oh yea, and BTW, close your eyes and picture an alien. let me guess, greenish yellow skin, bald, big black eyes. . . if we have never discovered aliens before, how come we all see the same thing when thinking of an alien? Take your time and think about that one for a while. . . I think I LIKE where you're going on this one, Chom. Elaborate for clarity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I blame Hanna-Barbera ... Now you may be on to something with Kazoo, Tj. He represents a lot of "ancient astronaut" theories that came up in the '60s-'70s (the Flintstones' era) about early man being influenced or even "created" by aliens. I am sure he was added by the writers of that show due to this subject gaining momentum during that decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_cavalierman Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Or that there be credible evidence.Trillions? Details, details, I know. Absolutely not true. Every single person I've known who has advanced degrees in engineering, mathematics and physics is open to the idea of alien life. They just haven't seen any convincing evidence. We are not in disagreement here... I think Aliens/UFO are very plausible...but a lot of people I know do not believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I would be interested in seeing more about this. You don't have a link handy, do you?I don't have a link to an info page but here are some images from famous paintings: It doesn't mean they are aliens, just that the painters back then either saw something in the sky that they depicted in their paintings or there is some other unknown reason for them being there. Occam's razor would seem to point to the reason being that it was something they were seeing in the sky. Local newspapers and investigators say you can see the lighthouse inland.I don't think this is taken seriously in the UK as an unexplained incident. It certainly wasn't during the period I lived there in the 80s & 90s. I'm open to the possibility, but given the problems presented as we understand them in interstellar travel there has to be extraordinary compelling evidence before something unexplained is characterized as beings from another planet. I haven't seen a UFO, but I have seen a number of very strange-looking objects. Last year a combination of a weather system and Jupiter being low on the horizon gave us a bright object in the sky that changed color - it even pulsed at times. Another time I saw a very strange object that looked like multiple craft flying close together. That turned out in binoculars to be a complex weather balloon. I hear you. The Rendlesham Forest incident is interesting, if nothing else for the fact that a Colonel in the US Air Force was involved, radio messages were recorded, and evidence was on the ground. Was it aliens? Man, who knows. I don't, that's for certain.I do know that the object I saw a few years ago was at high altitude and moved at incredible speed due South. Then it changed direction and went North without barely slowing down. No jet in our military could do what it did, and even if it could the pilot wouldn't survive. I think Z's point was that how would renaissance people understand anomalies in the sky and depict them the same way we do the UFOs of Roswell lore? It's interesting at least.Exactly. It's not interesting, it's bogus. That was the point I was trying to make. There was nothing interesting about it at all. . .heck even his link has nothing interesting in it.What link? Furthermore, why is it that they always pick the person who not stable? They don't. If you'd take you head out of your derrier long enough, you might just see that. But I guess that would not be following Occam's Razor would it? You know, the simplest explanation is none, but to just to berate the masses into submission. :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 The funny part for me is the "actual footage" - The best footage of Saucers in the 60's-70's was grainy film of a painted frisbee or pie plate and that was enough to convince people. I was like 10 when I watched "In Search of" and even I knew that crap was fake. Nowadays the special effects are much better and just about anyone with a computer can fake a good UFO video. That one from Bermuda a few months back was particularly good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Of course, he makes you look downright foolish lots of times, so it doesn't surprise me that you've resorted to this kind of thing. It's really your only option. That, or admit you were wrong. What, admit I am wrong about religion and a fictitious being as the one who created all of humankind? Sorry, I want some proof, and something that is vetted in the scientific community, not an article which passes through the theologian hierarchy and thus deemed factual. Heck, there are some good religious schools who do some good writing, but nothing that proves the existence of miracles other than the writings of man, who we ALL know is both fallible, lies, steals and is conniving. Yea zoony, I'm about to change my stance because he debunked one person who wrote a book. . .:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I think I see where you are going here. The UFO legend has become a "religion." It comes down to belief just like the topic of God/gods. This is very true if that's what you meant.I think I LIKE where you're going on this one, Chom. Elaborate for clarity? IMO, everyone has the same view of an alien because it is what they have seen in media which is depicted to be "alien" beings. The big head, large black eyes, etc. They have human features but don't look like a human. People would describe an alien as to what they think is believable, and it is based on past observation not on actual facts. Heck, most have seen Close Encounters, and other sci-fi movies which depict the anal probing beings to be these smallish figures without hair, large brains etc. People, in turn, that think they are abducted, use these mental images when describing their "captors" because it is what they have been exposed to in the past. It is a way of giving a believability to their story, and to rationalize it if others saw similar things. I don't remember the psychological term for it, but there is one, it is the one in which the brain thinks of something and makes the body believe it is true. Like lying to yourself for lack of a better analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 IMO, everyone has the same view of an alien because it is what they have seen in media which is depicted to be "alien" beings. The big head, large black eyes, etc. They have human features but don't look like a human. People would describe an alien as to what they think is believable, and it is based on past observation not on actual facts. Heck, most have seen Close Encounters, and other sci-fi movies which depict the anal probing beings to be these smallish figures without hair, large brains etc. People, in turn, that think they are abducted, use these mental images when describing their "captors" because it is what they have been exposed to in the past. It is a way of giving a believability to their story, and to rationalize it if others saw similar things. I don't remember the psychological term for it, but there is one, it is the one in which the brain thinks of something and makes the body believe it is true. Like lying to yourself for lack of a better analogy. Thanks for explaining and this is an excellent argument against the validity of abductions. I can't effectively counter that, but I will say that descriptions of these "little green men" date back to well before the 20th century and just like ZGuy posted, there are ancient depictions of creatures looking a lot like what we're discussing. (See the Nazca drawings, for one example.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I don't have a link to an info page but here are some images from famous paintings: It doesn't mean they are aliens, just that the painters back then either saw something in the sky that they depicted in their paintings or there is some other unknown reason for them being there. Occam's razor would seem to point to the reason being that it was something they were seeing in the sky. Or it could mean that it is a rendition of what they envision god to look like when acting upon a civilization. Who knows what the person was thinking that painted the object. . .but to say that is proof that there was aliens isn't just a stretch, it is a jump of cataclysmic proportions, one that the dear departed Evil Knievel wouldn't have attempted to cover in a rocket car. I hear you. The Rendlesham Forest incident is interesting, if nothing else for the fact that a Colonel in the US Air Force was involved, radio messages were recorded, and evidence was on the ground. Was it aliens? Man, who knows. I don't, that's for certain. Again, extraordinary evidence for believing something such as this. Who knows what they saw, maybe someone laced their water supply with LSD and they were having a mad trip. All there is for evidence is a tape recording and written testimony, not what I would call Occam worthy. I do know that the object I saw a few years ago was at high altitude and moved at incredible speed due South. Then it changed direction and went North without barely slowing down. No jet in our military could do what it did, and even if it could the pilot wouldn't survive. Could be anything. Heck it could have been a UFO, who knows. . .I do know that it is the story of a man that witnessed an event years ago, heck how many people saw the Lock Ness Monster and Big Foot? What link? The link to the crackpot someone posted earlier about the planet with the gold atmosphere that circles the sun in a 2600 year orbit :laugh: They don't. If you'd take you head out of your derrier long enough, you might just see that. But I guess that would not be following Occam's Razor would it? You know, the simplest explanation is none, but to just to berate the masses into submission. :whoknows: Show me an abduction story by a stable individual. . .what the lumberjack from Oregon? And how much money did he make from his "abduction"? Why is it that these stories have fizzled out since the advent of the video camera, and camera phones? It seems that if anything, we should have MORE evidence of little green men now, because we can tape things faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Or it could mean that it is a rendition of what they envision god to look like when acting upon a civilization. Who knows what the person was thinking that painted the object. . .but to say that is proof that there was aliens isn't just a stretch, it is a jump of cataclysmic proportions, one that the dear departed Evil Knievel wouldn't have attempted to cover in a rocket car. Or could it be they saw this object and attributed it to divine intervention? The link to the crackpot someone posted earlier about the planet with the gold atmosphere that circles the sun in a 2600 year orbit :laugh: That would be me. Be nice, Chom! You do have a penchant for slander. Show me an abduction story by a stable individual. . .what the lumberjack from Oregon? And how much money did he make from his "abduction"? I don't know too many cases where someone remains stable after being abducted by humans, much less a being they had not previously conceived of. Why is it that these stories have fizzled out since the advent of the video camera, and camera phones? It seems that if anything, we should have MORE evidence of little green men now, because we can tape things faster. There is easily more video now of UFOs than ever before. There are plenty more fakes, but also plenty more unexplainable vids too. Also more reports from military and airline pilots. Why nobody wants to lend any credibility to these accounts is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 thanks for posting that ZGuy, btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 BTW- What happened to the OP? Was he abducted for starting this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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