chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Its actually been longer than that. There is artwork from the Renaissance depicting craft in the sky. Yea, and we have artwork showing aliens, so it must be true right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 The key point here is that until a flying saucer lands on the whitehouse lawn during rush hour people just cannot conceptualize life beyond their little bubble of existence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Washington_D.C._UFO_incident ...just for starters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Yea, and we have artwork showing aliens, so it must be true right? I think Z's point was that how would renaissance people understand anomalies in the sky and depict them the same way we do the UFOs of Roswell lore? It's interesting at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Well there are current "Planet X" theories based on just that process, Zoon. We have plenty of spacecraft flying around the Solar System using the gravity of other planets to help them find their destination. If there was another planet of significant size anywhere near us I think we'd have come across it. Regarding the idea of a planet that has internally generated heat but is so far out that it has an orbit of a few thousand years, I'm not sure this makes a lot of sense. With no energy from the sun and perpetual dark the inhabitants would have no vision, even if the change in temperature from ground level to modest heights in the atmosphere would be survivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 We have plenty of spacecraft flying around the Solar System using the gravity of other planets to help them find their destination. If there was another planet of significant size anywhere near us I think we'd have come across it.Regarding the idea of a planet that has internally generated heat but is so far out that it has an orbit of a few thousand years, I'm not sure this makes a lot of sense. With no energy from the sun and perpetual dark the inhabitants would have no vision, even it the change in temperature from ground level to modest heights in the atmosphere would be survivable. I'm not equipped to debate this with you guys. I'm just providing reference. You can determine it's worth. I will say "don't knock it until you've read it" though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_cavalierman Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Washington_D.C._UFO_incident...just for starters That is interesting but my point was that it would have to be something the government could neither deny nor discredit. Something like a flying saucer landing in China during the Olympics where trillions of people can see it. Until something like that happens people are just not ready to wrap their brains around the concept of aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I think Z's point was that how would renaissance people understand anomalies in the sky and depict them the same way we do the UFOs of Roswell lore? It's interesting at least. It's not interesting, it's bogus. That was the point I was trying to make. There was nothing interesting about it at all. . .heck even his link has nothing interesting in it. For all of those people who claim that we are "being watched" . . . An alien civilization has the ability to conquer the speed of light, travel millions of light years away, conquer the laws of the universe, yet they can not avoid detection by radar??? Occam's Razor my friend Occam's razor. Furthermore, why is it that they always pick the person who not stable? You know Bubba, Jimbo and Fred disappear for a weekend, one shows up naked on a Monday morning next to a pay phone. He feels like he's been hit by a truck, the wives were all nervous, and called each other, yet these three people manage to convince their wives they were abducted by aliens instead of getting their willie wet four towns over. . .and people like you believe them :doh: P.T. Barnum was right, I guess I am in the wrong business. As for the Sitchin link, OMFG what a lunatic. Typical website of the tinfoil hat crowd, and no scientific fact to base any of his outrageous theories on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I'm not equipped to debate this with you guys. I'm just providing reference. You can determine it's worth. I will say "don't knock it until you've read it" though. If a theory requires the laws of physics to be violated, it better bring some reliable data to back it up. Otherwise it's fiction. Erich Von Daniken presented detailed data and it was shown to be garbage. It doesn't make Von Daniken's books worthless but they are not factual. They are fantasy (or lies to be more accurate), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 That is interesting but my point was that it would have to be something the government could neither deny nor discredit.Something like a flying saucer landing in China during the Olympics where trillions of people can see it. Until something like that happens people are just not ready to wrap their brains around the concept of aliens. Point well-taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Furthermore, why is it that they always pick the person who not stable? You know Bubba, Jimbo and Fred disappear for a weekend, one shows up naked on a Monday morning next to a pay phone. He feels like he's been hit by a truck, the wives were all nervous, and called each other, yet these three people manage to convince their wives they were abducted by aliens instead of getting their willie wet four towns over. . .and people like you believe them :doh: :laugh: of course, Bubba and Jimbo regularly post here, not sure about Fred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 If a theory requires the laws of physics to be violated, it better bring some reliable data to back it up. Otherwise it's fiction. Well, Corc- you can read it and decide or decide without reading it. :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Like I said, check it all out if you want. Sitchin has his debunkers like anyone else, but his whole take on it has held up pretty well for about 30 years. It's all based on his (and I stress "his") translations of the ancient sumerian tablets. Sitchiniswrong.com is a good one, if a bit snarky (his "blue pill" reads: "No way - I'm a fundamentalist Sitchinite, and I don't want to be confused by nasty things like grammar, linguistics, dictionaries, and truth." :laugh: ) For the past two years, at conferences and on radio shows like Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell and George Noory, listeners have asked me numerous times to comment on the teachings of Zecharia Sitchin. Why? Because I am actually what Sitchin claims to be - a scholar of ancient near eastern languages, texts, history, and religion. People think (correctly) that if something's rotten in Sitchin's Denmark (or Nibiru) I ought to know. This site reveals that I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 That is interesting but my point was that it would have to be something the government could neither deny nor discredit. Or that there be credible evidence. Something like a flying saucer landing in China during the Olympics where trillions of people can see it. Trillions? Details, details, I know. Until something like that happens people are just not ready to wrap their brains around the concept of aliens. Absolutely not true. Every single person I've known who has advanced degrees in engineering, mathematics and physics is open to the idea of alien life. They just haven't seen any convincing evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Sitchiniswrong.com is a good one, if a bit snarky (his "blue pill" reads: "No way - I'm a fundamentalist Sitchinite, and I don't want to be confused by nasty things like grammar, linguistics, dictionaries, and truth." :laugh: ) Was it you that brought up this link the last time I mentioned Sitchin? Like I say, he has his debunkers. That link is an aggressive and strong one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Well, Corc- you can read it and decide or decide without reading it. :whoknows: There are infomercials on TV telling me I can lose fifty pounds without diet or exercise too. But I'm not studying those either. My loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Absolutely not true. Every single person I've known who has advanced degrees in engineering, mathematics and physics is open to the idea of alien life. They just haven't seen any convincing evidence. Well, to be fair, "people" was a rather general term in his manner of usage, and most people don't have advanced degrees in engineering, mathematics, or physics. I think there's a lot of truth to what Tommy Lee Jones says in Men in Black about how a person can be a reasonable, thoughtful individual, while people are mindless, easily panicked, and irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speardog1 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I don't belive the crop circles are from UFO's. And by the way, you should be more specific, one can belive in a UFO and not believe in extraterrestrials. A UFO is unidentified, that's it. In reference to Mad Mike of why we should be so arrogant to belive aliens would visit us? well it could be a matter of convenience. I mean, if the universe is so vast the most logical first step would be to check out your neighborhood first. Then again if they can travel that far then they should be able to bend space and time in which case they may not worry about distance. This brings me to my next question. Why is it that all descriptions of Aliens tend to be humanoid? It seems odd that they would evolve just like us. Maybe it's us from the future that have invented time and space travel and come back from the future to make sure we don't screw things up. I've watched a few shows where UFO's have interfeered in Nuclear activities, this is an obvious choice of time travelers which is an example of us blowing up our planet and ending the human race. That would also explain why the aliens try to stay hidden, they would want to interfere as little as possible and not screw up more than they intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Was it you that brought up this link the last time I mentioned Sitchin? Yes. I happen to like that site, mostly because it is run by a highly qualified expert, but also because I think his writing is amusing (without, in my view, spilling over to outright rudeness, as some do when dealing with ideas that they find silly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Well, to be fair, "people" was a rather general term in his manner of usage, and most people don't have advanced degrees in engineering, mathematics, or physics. That's not my point. There is no shortage of "people" who already accept UFO stories as true. However, the very people who are most skeptical to the reported UFO stories are perhaps those who are most open-minded to the possibility of alien life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Was it you that brought up this link the last time I mentioned Sitchin? Like I say, he has his debunkers. That link is an aggressive and strong one. Another note about that site. Sitchin doesn't really have many debunkers, because as is the case with many authors who publish outlandish theories in the popular media and on the internet (especially), the actual experts in academia don't take them seriously, so they don't waste their time trying to address such things. You were right when you said Sitchin uses his own translations. Nobody agrees with him. So, either he is a visionary genius on par with Galileo, ready to turn the academic world of linguistics and ancient history on its head, or he is a quack. As a side note, Galileo was able to prove his theories with evidence and so eventually convince his academic contemporaries, for what that's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 However, the very people who are most skeptical to the reported UFO stories are perhaps those who are most open-minded to the possibility of alien life. Heck, I believe there is alien life out there, but I also don't think stories like "Fire in the Sky" aren't true at all either. Occam's Razor is my determining factor when it comes to things like UFO, God, or any other type of entity that disobeys the laws of physics as we know it. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, not Jimbo-Bob showing up hungover and naked under a phone saying "I was abducted, honestly I was" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Another note about that site. Sitchin doesn't really have many debunkers, because as is the case with many authors who publish outlandish theories in the popular media and on the internet (especially), the actual experts in academia don't take them seriously, so they don't waste their time trying to address such things. As with the case of the vast majority of crackpots out there. People who are actually informed like to hope, humanity has the ability to discern reality from the rantings of a delusional man. . .we like to HOPE people can see through this BS. . .but then again, how many people believe in the bible so I guess it is expected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NattyLight Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I believe that the creator of the universe made the universe in such away that the probability of having ANY intelligent beings cross paths with each other is almost impossible. Think about all the ingrediants that went into earth and how it involved from a planet, to home for intelligent beings. That's a miracle that ain't happenin' right next door. I believe there are "aliens" out there, but we'll never see one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 not Jimbo-Bob showing up hungover and naked under a phone saying "I was abducted, honestly I was" I wonder what the thought process is to select "Abducted by satanists and brainwashed" over "Abducted by aliens and anally probed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Is there a 3rd option, Alex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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