How much time does JC need?

[taylorcoreskin]

Todd has shown that the only thing you have to do in this offense too succeed is NOT MAKE MISTAKES. That has been the only gripe with JC, but hes young so it is acceptable. He needs to watch a ton of film this offseason....and just make safe throws during the season. CP, Santana, Cooley and the boys will do this rest.

Not really. The no-mistake play of Brunell still yielded poor production from the offense. That's not what this offense is about.

[Fergasun]

When we invest too much emotionally in the 'franchise' QB, we neglect the fact that there are benchmarks and timetables for their development. I also think there is a great deal of rank hypocrisy when it comes to the two QBs and how they were/are treated and coddled. I won't delve fully into the sociological reasons for it (and of course, the "Gibb stamp of approval" on Campbell) but suffice to say I am fascinated by these discussions more because of the psychology involved and it's not just QB threads where we see these experiments play out.

I agree with you there regarding investing in the franchise QB. I think Campbell is right on the edge. This year we should see something similar to what Trent Green was putting up in the Chiefs offense... the excuses and growing pains and everything else should be over. I'm encouraged by Campbell improving his completion %, etc... and I think definately in 2006 they handcuffed him a little bit (seriously all he did was pass to Cooley and Betts). We should be really encouraged by the increased WR production this year.... and that trend should continue...

I'm not buying what you're saying about the way Ramsey has been treated and the way Campbell has been treated. Fans had already had enough of Ramsey by the time the Dawkins pick came... that was the moment everyone was just fed up... if you don't believe fans will turn on Campbell if he makes the same mistakes he has all next season you're mistaken.

[Oldfan]

I'm not buying what you're saying about the way Ramsey has been treated and the way Campbell has been treated. Fans had already had enough of Ramsey by the time the Dawkins pick came... that was the moment everyone was just fed up... if you don't believe fans will turn on Campbell if he makes the same mistakes he has all next season you're mistaken.

Here's a link to a poll (Dec 2005) that challenges your claim about the fans being fed up with Ramsey.

[Sonny9TD]

Campbell stares his receivers down and doesn't make quick decisions. Just not very quick upstairs. This and fumbling is a recipe for close games each and every week which the coaches aren't too good at either. Plenty of athleticism to try and force a play though.

[bigyim]

Campbell stares his receivers down and doesn't make quick decisions. Just not very quick upstairs. This and fumbling is a recipe for close games each and every week which the coaches aren't too good at either. Plenty of athleticism to try and force a play though.

I'd be careful with the "not too quick upstairs"...you sound too much like the Tampa fans in the '70s about Doug Williams.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and suggest that you are actually describing the slow delivery of the ball by Campbell. That is something that has been documented by reporters & opposing coaches, and something that Skins' coaches have worked with Campbell on.

It would be difficult to explain why Saunders has told Campbell he will start over Collins when healthy, if Campbell wasn't "too quick upstairs".

It is even more difficult to explain why teammates like Portis say that Campbell will be "awesome", once he gets comfort with the offense, if he doesn't have the mental faculties to run the offense and recognize defenses.

It gets near-impossible to rationalize how Campbell kept a completion % over 60 during his 4 years of college ball, if he didn't have the brains to run 4 different offensive systems.

No offense, but I'll lean towards the coaches' & teammates's assessments of Campbell's ability "upstairs", over yours.

[2006Skins]

Campbell stares his receivers down and doesn't make quick decisions. Just not very quick upstairs. This and fumbling is a recipe for close games each and every week which the coaches aren't too good at either. Plenty of athleticism to try and force a play though.

You can't graduate from college in 3 1/2 years, run 4 offensive schemes in 4 years, and have a 60%+ completion without being smart. The same test that said he wasn't too smart said Eli had more brains than Payton :doh:

[MissYvette]

I am a woman You Idiot. Apparently You can't read too well. So again, if the shoe fits, wear it...lol....GET A LIFE:)

-Says the thirty-three year old man who still uses smiley faces.

[IHOPSkins]

I am a woman You Idiot. Apparently You can't read too well. So again, if the shoe fits, wear it...lol....GET A LIFE:)

Well

He was right about the smiley face!!!

Hail!

[Buck812]

I don't know, did you hear people bashing Brady because Caldwell dropped what would have been a game-clinching easy catch or because the Pats D dropped an 18 point lead to their bitter conference rivals?

Actually you have a very good point... Brady was already an established QB in this league when that happened. But what if say, that had happeded a couple of times earlier in his career and Brady had of gotten injured. Then Bledsoe, or who ever the backup was at that time, comes in and the defense stops giving up leads and such. How different things could have been now in NE?

Like I said, Collins is getting all of the credit for this teams turn around on this board and it just doesnt reflect whats happening on the field. This defense has been the best in the NFL the last two weeks and I just dont think Collins is the only Redskin QB that can flourish with the kind of team play we are seeing right now. Campbell never recieved this kind of help and I would be interested in seeing him play when the team is playing this good. That doesnt mean Im advocating a QB change right now or anything. I dont want to experiment with something thats working but there will be a time and place.

Thanks for helping me out though

[adamyesme1111]

Your saying WHEN not IF.

The real question is...

WHEN he proves you wrong and does good as an NFL QB and WHEN he shows you that he was a good QB in college because of himself, and not his two great runningbacks, will you post again on this board?

I wouldn't, because you seem SO SURE that he is not going to be a good quarterback.

[gkekoa]

Jason Campbell at this point is better than Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers both of which were taken in front of him. The only guy taken after him that anyone will argue is Derek Anderson and I'll stick with JC. I believe Anderson showed what he was really made of toward the end of the season, especially against the Bengals.

If you want to look at the following year, please do. Leinart and Yound have not been as productive as JC and Cutler has been even more unpredictable.

Feel free to question Campbell as you should any QB but don't be so unsure of him. If the playcalling was consistent throughout the games for Campbell, I don't think we would have blown 4 halftime leads.

[fansince62]

As many of you in here know, I am not a very big fan of Jason Campbell. So I will make this post short and to the point. Many of you excuse Jason's poor play because he has not had enough time in the league, system and etc. I was wondering ,when you guys feel it is ok to judge Jason as any other qb in the league is judged. What happens if we see no improvement next season or the next? When will you give up on this inaccurate turnover machine who only looked good in college because he had two great rb's. I say obviously he is the starter again next year because Collins is 36 and a career backup, but what happens when he continues to underacheive, or when we lose another game due to three Campbell turnovers.

how much time before BMahoney's poor posts end? As many of you know, I am not a very big fan of BM. So I will make this short and to the point. Many excuse BM's poor reasoning because he has not had much professional writing experience. I was wondering when you guys feel it is ok to judge the BM man on his post totals and overall quality. What happens if we see no more attention-to-detail next season or the season after? When will you give up on this single-minded, unfocused scopelocked bandwagon machine who only looks good when not posting? I say obviously he will continue to post because he is registered and others are even more jejeune, but what happens when he continues to underachieve, or when we witness another unsupported advocacy piece that does not recognize progress as well as potential, the future as well as the past, lost games due to errors by others....or games lost by Collins because the laegue has figured out his weaknesses and exploited them to death?

but I digress.....

[RocketCitySkins]

You can't graduate from college in 3 1/2 years, run 4 offensive schemes in 4 years, and have a 60%+ completion without being smart. The same test that said he wasn't too smart said Eli had more brains than Payton :doh:

And he graduated college with a 3.0 GPA and was on the Dean's list multiple times in high school.

I don't think being slow "upstairs" has anything to do with slow reads. I don't think Jason trust this offensive system because it goes against the way he has always played football. His style has always been - see the receiver open and gun the ball to him. In Saunders system the ball has to be thrown as soon as the receiver makes his cut. I think that's why Jason throws behind the receiver so much. I'm hoping the work during the off season will enable Jason to get the different timing. If he does, I think we'll see a lot of improvement in what looks like inaccuracy now.

[fansince62]

And he graduated college with a 3.0 GPA and was on the Dean's list multiple times in high school.

I don't think being slow "upstairs" has anything to do with slow reads. I don't think Jason trust this offensive system because it goes against the way he has always played football. His style has always been - see the receiver open and gun the ball to him. In Saunders system the ball has to be thrown as soon as the receiver makes his cut. I think that's why Jason throws behind the receiver so much. I'm hoping the work during the off season will enable Jason to get the different timing. If he does, I think we'll see a lot of improvement in what looks like inaccuracy now.

wow....kinda reminds me of John Elway's style!

[Passizle]

-Your absolutely right, Collins will have his head called for if the D underperforms or wr's start dropping balls. However this won't happen because Collins can sustain a drive, our D is always fresh and able to perform to their full potential, unlike when they have Campbell at the helm and they continuously go 3 and out. Wide receivers also won't mysteriously start dropping balls for Collins because he puts touch on the ball, and is far more accurate. Unlike Jason, Collins doesn't throw a 90 mph fast ball above Santana's head, I wouldn't want to catch to many of those either. Its not like they were playing with a different team in the Bears game, and when you compare the way the two looked Collins appeared far superior.

So... what do you have to say now, that everything you said just blew up in your face?

Conclusion?

JC>TC

[drewski]

The only thing that I wish would change with JC is his throwing mechanics, I

[drewski]

If you check the tape the tampa bay game he had is R open but his realese wasnt as fast as his QB brain

[fansince62]

you know...were it not for the defense collapsing in the NY game...Campbell would have taken the team to a 6-2 record over the first 8 games......if you really want some taste of possibilities he also had a lead in the Packer game that was blown by Moss....7-1 in the first 8 games.....but he's a loser...we all know that....no future...a turnover machine who cannot bring victory.....

let's see...the Bills were 6-10 the year Collins started - after two years on the bench to "learn" the system...he had 12 TDs and 13 picks...yup....best to give up on a player early....you can tell pretty early what they will grow into...

[hailtotheskins69]

i'm lookin forward to seein Jason play again in 2008. should be interesting to watch.

[fansince62]

you know...were it not for the defense collapsing in the NY game...Campbell would have taken the team to a 6-2 record over the first 8 games......if you really want some taste of possibilities he also had a lead in the Packer game that was blown by Moss....7-1 in the first 8 games.....but he's a loser...we all know that....no future...a turnover machine who cannot bring victory.....

let's see...the Bills were 6-10 the year Collins started - after two years on the bench to "learn" the system...he had 12 TDs and 13 picks...yup....best to give up on a player early....you can tell pretty early what they will grow into...

one thing is constant though...when TC starts...the head coach retires!..... :laugh:

[BraveWarrior]

I'm tired of everyone predicting doom for JC if Snyder hires outside the "family." Maybe the incoming offense system would be much better suited to his strengths than the overwhelming Saunder's playbook.

[95southskinsfan]

As many of you in here know, I am not a very big fan of Jason Campbell. So I will make this post short and to the point. Many of you excuse Jason's poor play because he has not had enough time in the league, system and etc. I was wondering ,when you guys feel it is ok to judge Jason as any other qb in the league is judged. What happens if we see no improvement next season or the next? When will you give up on this inaccurate turnover machine who only looked good in college because he had two great rb's. I say obviously he is the starter again next year because Collins is 36 and a career backup, but what happens when he continues to underacheive, or when we lose another game due to three Campbell turnovers.

[Veretax]

Eli Manning would not have done any different with a line in the condition that ours was.

[wildbill1952]

How much time does JC need?

The two extra seconds a great O-line could give him.

Whether you're Montana or Sonny or a hundred other pro QB's, you're only as good as your offensive line. When 300 pound defensive linemen are in your face, or tugging on your arms, or crashing aroound your feet, your performance is not as good as when you can sit back and wait for your Wide Receiver to get open.

Draft some top of the line talent for the O-line and watch Campbell become a pro Bowler.

[G-Prime]

I was completely unaware that JC was in fact playing poorly.

The guy is a kid. 24 more games before I'm willing to hazard a guess.

Ramsey was much easier to project because he never really seemed to improve at all. JC has shown flashes of top notch QB play this year.

He wasn't playing poorly, 22 year olds know d***

I'd of loved to seen Campbell behind our starting line.. With one more year of experience, he's going to be looking good.. I'm worried now if another OC is brought in that JC will once again have to learn a new system =(..