hobbie8046 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Beginning of 2009-2010 season. Give him another full season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasSucks19922010 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 how many turnovers arent jasons fault? like the ball that went right thru moss's hands in the green bay game and got picked, the one in buffalo where the corner makes a great play and the defensive linemen makes a great play and gets the pick, or when todd wade doesnt even block anyone while campbell gets hit in his blindside and then fumbles. i dont know if anyones played backyard football and playing qb and getting hit from behind but its hard not to fumble. im not the strongest supporter of jason but give him some slack. todd collins deserves to start the rest of the season, win or loss in seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Atlanta Skins Fan had a very interesting post which involved QB passing attempts and completion percentage in college. He came to the conclusion that Campbell was not as much of a passer in college (perhaps until that last season) and that it did not bode well for his pro career.Now, putting that aside, I know he had a great senior year in terms of pct but he was in a West Coast offense there with Al Borges. I don't know how much that played a role. After all, I bet Steve Walsh and many QBs at big-time programs had good completion percentages and have never done a thing in this league of note. Drew Brees, as I've pointed out numerous times, is (for this era) an anomaly. Most of the very good-to-great QBs that have emerged to start for teams around the league have asserted themselves in improved records and/or excellent statistical performance by their third year. Brees didn't truly excel until his 4th year and one of the reasons is because the competition of Rivers had compelled him to push himself even harder and take that next step. I'd add that I don't know why anyone thinks Jason won't turn into a less athletic and less idiotic Aaron Brooks with more character. Brooks had superior statistical season, starting with even his handful of starts in 2000, culminating in a good stretch of years there in NO. The team moved on to Brees and finally stepped up to the next level, though Colston helped also. Brooks, even with some very good numbers and good mobility, just could not make the plays when needed to get that team over the hump. Then he just collapsed in 2006. Actually the analysis by Atlanta Skins fan was inconclusive on Campbell. In it, he claims Campbell was a good passer in College but there wasn't quite enough data to 100% say yes he will be a good pro because Campbell never threw more than 400 passes in one season at Auburn. Other notable contributions from that analysis: Eli Manning is a premier QB, as is Brady Quinn (the backup for the Browns who has multiple nationally televised TV ads) and Matt Schaub (the guy from UVA...that team that was always in the preseason top 25 but always fell off by week 3 or 4). Also, Peyton Manning charted out to be a worse QB than Eli, if I remember correctly. You seem pretty sure that if Campbell sucks it up next year we should dump him. So why don't we just wait til next year? There's no point talking about it right now. Next season, Campbell should be our starter without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor21 Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 by the way TC has been playing... 10 years maybe? just kidding, be patient, he's young and has only had a handful of starts, not even a full consecutive season yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve09ru Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 How about we judge him fully when he 1) plays behind a healthy O-line w/true starters 2) has healthy WRs 3) has WRs over 6 ft tall 4) has coaches that make smart and aggressive playcalling and allow him to open it up ? I know he's not perfect but it's rare for a QB to just step in and become the next Elway or Marino. He will get the reins starting next year and hopefully we will be at full strength to help him out. Collins is playing behind the same oline, same hurt wr's, and none of 6 ft, and the playcalling really hasn't been too "handcuffed". campbell holds on to the ball too long and doesn't trust his instinct (reason for throws behind the reciever)...his accuracy is the reason for the supposed conservative play. This same stuff we are running with collins looks like what it could have been with campbell if he had touch and let the ball out early. Campbell threw more 2nd half passes than 1st half which shows they didn't play too conservative but that they just couldn't execute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desioreo87 Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 All i ask is that you give him one more year. If he doesn't improve next year in the offense then bring another QB in. That is all there is to it. Give JC ONE! more year, JUST ONE! If he doesn't improve and puts up the same numbers then do whatever you want with him and bring in a nother QB. its as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Collins is playing behind the same oline, same hurt wr's, and none of 6 ft, and the playcalling really hasn't been too "handcuffed".campbell holds on to the ball too long and doesn't trust his instinct (reason for throws behind the reciever)...his accuracy is the reason for the supposed conservative play. This same stuff we are running with collins looks like what it could have been with campbell if he had touch and let the ball out early. Campbell threw more 2nd half passes than 1st half which shows they didn't play too conservative but that they just couldn't execute. The WRs are healthy and the coaches have already admitted that the playcalling is different and more aggressive now, especially in the 2nd half when playing with a lead. Yes, sometimes Campbell holds on to the ball too long, but apparently so does Collins since he has been sacked 7 times in 3.5 games. That is 2 sacks per game which is more than Campbell had. As for the 2nd half pass numbers, how many of those passes do you think resulted from us having to move the ball downfield very quickly after trying to sit on a lead and losing it late in the game? They did play more conservative in 2nd halves before. They have even admitted to it. How many friggin max protect packages with Thrash in as the lone WR did we see in 2nd halves earlier in the season? Quite a few. How many have you seen in the last 4 games? Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passizle Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I don't know. I don't think he's great but Derek Anderson has shown more, IMO, as a QB than Campbell has. Sure, he had a bad game that would have clinched the playoffs but he plays in a superior conference and was the reason Edwards and Winslow were able to show their talent so completely (remember how they were with Frye.) I dont buy into the "whole" AFC is the greatest theory. When you look at the conferences all around, the NFC has far more teams at or above .500. The AFC always seems to be four 10+ wins teams and the rest are just pathetic. The Anderson thing is just a chemical reaction. He wont play that well anyplace else. He also has an all-pro cast around him. Edwards, Winslow, Lewis, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I dont buy into the "whole" AFC is the greatest theory. When you look at the conferences all around, the NFC has far more teams at or above .500. The AFC always seems to be four 10+ wins teams and the rest are just pathetic.The Anderson thing is just a chemical reaction. He wont play that well anyplace else. He also has an all-pro cast around him. Edwards, Winslow, Lewis, etc... and an offensive line that give up only 11 sacks after week 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Ghost, While I agree with you to a certain extent about Ramsey, there was nothing that could've been done to keep him after the 2005 draft and Saunders being brought in. I'd like to think that Gibbs promised he'd be released as well (I'm sure if I looked into the archives my memory would be jogged). Regardless, the Patrick Ramsey era is bloody ancient history. Maybe we can bring him back after Gibbs is gone... but there is one benchmark that looks pretty clear for 2007. Week 5 v DET: 23/29, 248 YD, 2 TD, 0 INT, 8.6 yard/a, 79%, 125.3 Rating Week 9 @ DET: 29/46, 262 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT, 5.7 yard/a, 63%, 76.5 Rating And really I don't know why people still bring up the name of the strong armed Tulane QB. 2002 is ancient QB history, and while he did get a raw-deal in 2005, Brunell flat-out outplayed him and had a Pro Bowl season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 All i ask is that you give him one more year. If he doesn't improve next year in the offense then bring another QB in. That is all there is to it. Give JC ONE! more year, JUST ONE!If he doesn't improve and puts up the same numbers then do whatever you want with him and bring in a nother QB. its as simple as that. I think this is what he should get. Except that it should be an open competition next year for the starting job. He shouldn't have it handed to him when his backup so dramatically out performs him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 The WRs are healthy and the coaches have already admitted that the playcalling is different and more aggressive now, especially in the 2nd half when playing with a lead. Yes, because Collins can handle it. Not because of a change in philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I just wonder if everyone is going to call for Collins head if the defense starts faltering again or the WRs get banged up and start dropping passes and such? You know.. You always hear that the QB gets too much credit when a team wins and too much blame when they lose. I have never seen anything that exemplifies it more than whats said on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Yes, because Collins can handle it. Not because of a change in philosophy. Actually they said that after the Bills game and before the Bears game. But thanks for playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissYvette Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Please get a life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoth Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 If the time comes, certainly scuttle him. But tall big armed QBs don't grow on trees, and we have other glaring needs. It is an adjustment to throw deep balls to smurfs, this is his first time in a decade spending two years in the same offense, and it is a very complex one. And don't underestimate first half of season, the Moss drop a thon, Gibbs giving games away with conservative coaching, things we don't see behind scenes like Saunders not being able to run full system. It is too early to tell, but you are talking about the most difficult position to find a quality starter at. He gets all of next year at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Actually they said that after the Bills game and before the Bears game. But thanks for playing. Oh. Ok then. We can all get back to ignoring obviously superior QB play to support the guy we want to become great someday. Hopefully in a couple more years he'll be as good as Jake Plummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve09ru Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Ghost, While I agree with you to a certain extent about Ramsey, there was nothing that could've been done to keep him after the 2005 draft and Saunders being brought in. I'd like to think that Gibbs promised he'd be released as well (I'm sure if I looked into the archives my memory would be jogged). Regardless, the Patrick Ramsey era is bloody ancient history. Maybe we can bring him back after Gibbs is gone... but there is one benchmark that looks pretty clear for 2007. Week 5 v DET: 23/29, 248 YD, 2 TD, 0 INT, 8.6 yard/a, 79%, 125.3 Rating Week 9 @ DET: 29/46, 262 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT, 5.7 yard/a, 63%, 76.5 Rating And really I don't know why people still bring up the name of the strong armed Tulane QB. 2002 is ancient QB history, and while he did get a raw-deal in 2005, Brunell flat-out outplayed him and had a Pro Bowl season. you can't really compare 2 qb's on 2 different teams in 2 different styles of offense...Denvers defense gave up 44, ours gave up 3 I do think JC can become a good qb for this league and it's his team, but let collins play until he falls apart...imo he's deserved that chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 I just wonder if everyone is going to call for Collins head if the defense starts faltering again or the WRs get banged up and start dropping passes and such?You know.. You always hear that the QB gets too much credit when a team wins and too much blame when they lose. I have never seen anything that exemplifies it more than whats said on this board. -Your absolutely right, Collins will have his head called for if the D underperforms or wr's start dropping balls. However this won't happen because Collins can sustain a drive, our D is always fresh and able to perform to their full potential, unlike when they have Campbell at the helm and they continuously go 3 and out. Wide receivers also won't mysteriously start dropping balls for Collins because he puts touch on the ball, and is far more accurate. Unlike Jason, Collins doesn't throw a 90 mph fast ball above Santana's head, I wouldn't want to catch to many of those either. Its not like they were playing with a different team in the Bears game, and when you compare the way the two looked Collins appeared far superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted January 5, 2008 Author Share Posted January 5, 2008 Please get a life! -Says the thirty-three year old man who still uses smiley faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 -Your absolutely right, Collins will have his head called for if the D underperforms or wr's start dropping balls. However this won't happen because Collins can sustain a drive, our D is always fresh and able to perform to their full potential, unlike when they have Campbell at the helm and they continuously go 3 and out. Wide receivers also won't mysteriously start dropping balls for Collins because he puts touch on the ball, and is far more accurate. Unlike Jason, Collins doesn't throw a 90 mph fast ball above Santana's head, I wouldn't want to catch to many of those either. Its not like they were playing with a different team in the Bears game, and when you compare the way the two looked Collins appeared far superior. I dont think you quite understood what I meant did you? Collins, even if he is god almighty (well maybe if he was god almighty) cant make the WRs catch a ball and he certainly cant make the D hold the last two very good teams to an average of 9 yards rushing per game. Do you remember when Moss pulled himself from a game because he played so poorly????? Do you remember when the D was giving up huge leads???? Do you remember when the coaching staff looked like pop warner league coaches?????... You know what, for those of you who believe that Collins is only susceptible to kryptonite go ahead and enjoy your fantasy. Collins has played well for a team that is playing superb..... Nothing more and nothing less As far as this subject goes, Im just going to sit back and read and laugh from here on out. There are some here who understand and some who dont. I think its obvious who each are.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 if you are referring to time in the pocket... all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I just wonder if everyone is going to call for Collins head if the defense starts faltering again or the WRs get banged up and start dropping passes and such? I don't know, did you hear people bashing Brady because Caldwell dropped what would have been a game-clinching easy catch or because the Pats D dropped an 18 point lead to their bitter conference rivals? No? Oh OK, then maybe we can stop throwing out this canard. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Ghost, Week 5 v DET: 23/29, 248 YD, 2 TD, 0 INT, 8.6 yard/a, 79%, 125.3 Rating Week 9 @ DET: 29/46, 262 YD, 1 TD, 1 INT, 5.7 yard/a, 63%, 76.5 Rating First, come on with comparing two games, one in which a guy had been starting from training camp and the other a guy coming in for an INJURED starter. And comparing teams with radically different defensive performances throughout the year. Come on now. And my main point is this: Skins fans, out of ANY fanbase, should be familiar with this story and how it can play out. My point about Ramsey, isn't to 'boost' him anymore but to point out how Campbell himself is NOT a perfect prospect and how we jettisoned a guy who showed as much talent as a passer and WAS known initially for his pocket presence and poise (this is forgotten in revisionism but we can cue the Jaworski tape and put that to bed.) When we invest too much emotionally in the 'franchise' QB, we neglect the fact that there are benchmarks and timetables for their development. I also think there is a great deal of rank hypocrisy when it comes to the two QBs and how they were/are treated and coddled. I won't delve fully into the sociological reasons for it (and of course, the "Gibb stamp of approval" on Campbell) but suffice to say I am fascinated by these discussions more because of the psychology involved and it's not just QB threads where we see these experiments play out. Who can forget the people supporting Highway 57 being in there on defense when it was clear a lawn chair would have been a better replacement, let alone Lavar Arrington? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 The Anderson thing is just a chemical reaction. He wont play that well anyplace else. He also has an all-pro cast around him. Edwards, Winslow, Lewis, etc... So wait, you don't remember charlie Frye NOT having great success with those pieces and, in fact, being traded after the first week of the season? And by the way, if you take away a QB from good players, you're telling me that he won't play as well? Well golly gee whillakers! Who woulda thought? Is that kind of the reverse of adding Welker and Moss to the Patriots? :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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