How much time does JC need?

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I think JC gets one more year.

I think your comment that he has been playing poorly to date is pretty ridiculous too. I seem to remember Santana actually playing poorly before JC went down, and the defense as well. But I recall JC playing like a young QB with a lot of ability who hasnt quite put it all together.

[Zguy28]

I'd say he needs until training camp to recover.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

I had problems with my knee cap not tracking right last year and it sucks. It hurts to walk, you can't go up stairs like a normal person, you can't sit in a chair for very long etc.

Yes, but could you play football like a super stud?

[terpskins10]

You truely make yourself look ignorant. Did Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams throw the ball for Campbell? Are they world beaters in the NFL?

Great point here. It's funny that these guys, so highly touted coming out of college, have had arguably LESS success that Jason Campbell has had. Sure, Caddy got the OROY but I never thought he really deserved it because he started fast and then sucked. I think he got it solely because there were no other good rookies that year.

[kingfish50]

He needs to continue to improve into next year. I love Jason...I think hes shown the MOST promise of any YOUNG quarterback for the redskins in.....well a REALLY long time.

That being said....Jason needs to have a good year next year. Drop down that interception number, and fumble number significantly. Im not saying they should bench him if he has the same kind of year this year....but if he regresses AT ALL....we need to start thinking about it.

BUT! Saunders needs to open up this offense for Jason.....have it RAN the same way Todd is running it RIGHT NOW. If that means Jason needs to STUDY, STUDY, STUDY.....THEN DO IT JC.

I don't want him in there if he has the same kind of year as this year. I guess you like watching other teams playing in January. Next season he should be playing near the level of TC and if he's as great as a lot of you profess him to be, then he should exceed him to some degree, if not, bench him. Don't put our season in jeopardy because a QB, after almost 2 years, still can't execute the plays and still keeps turning the ball over.

Let me also add that if he does start, I hope he does good. I want what's best for the Redskins.

[artmonkforHOF]

As Redskins fans we have seen a back up QB take us into the playoffs before, and we all know the best thing to do is not to mess with it. I don't care if JC is healthy enough to start vs Seattle, I dont think he should play ANY playoff games this year.

Let him watch Todd and figure out what works and what doesnt work in this offense. He will have many more opportunities to lead this team in the playoffs in years to come.

[BMahoney]

He needs to continue to improve into next year. I love Jason...I think hes shown the MOST promise of any YOUNG quarterback for the redskins in.....well a REALLY long time.

That being said....Jason needs to have a good year next year. Drop down that interception number, and fumble number significantly. Im not saying they should bench him if he has the same kind of year this year....but if he regresses AT ALL....we need to start thinking about it.

BUT! Saunders needs to open up this offense for Jason.....have it RAN the same way Todd is running it RIGHT NOW. If that means Jason needs to STUDY, STUDY, STUDY.....THEN DO IT JC.

-Thank you for replying to the original post. Great read, I really agree with alot of your points, I hope that this can serve as a learning experience for JC and he can make a change.

-To the rest of you who have attempted to turn this into TC v JC. Just so you all know I don't root against JC, and any qb who has more picks than tds has not been performing well. I simply don't feel he is the answer to this team, I wish he was and pray every night that next year he will be, I just don't believe this to be the case. If you do good for you please offer me evidence of his improvement and evidence as to why you feel he was such a great qb this season. Instead of comments such as take off your hate glasses, or he'll do great next year you'll see, you'll be eating crow. I know it must have taken all of you a lot of time to come up with your oh so clever responses, but if you could keep your comments to the original post about JC (nothing to do with Collins a 36 yr old benchrider is not the answer either). The question is how much time are you will to give him because there is obviously something many of you see that I don't.

[steve09ru]

-19 turnovers in 13 games is no good for any qb at any level in there progression

-2 qb ratings over 100, 2 over 80...everything else below

-he's played well in games but continues to throw behind and over the receivers, and has no deep ball whatsoever

i like the guy and hope he can do something, but until he shows he can finish a game, i don't really see too much coming from him

Edit: *the 80.2 rating was the bears game where he didn't even play a full half

[bigyim]

Campbell has shown enough improvement for optimism, if you look at things objectively.

His completion % went up from last year...from 53% to just over 60%.

He had games of 220+ yds. 4 times this year, after having none last year, and was on pace for 3,500 yds. passing this year.

We already know about his physical tools--size, stature, mobility & arm strength (or, at least, you should be by now).

It has also been remarked by coaches & NFL scouts that the Redskins have done a good job with speeding up his delivery (which was considered his main detriment in delivering consistent performance).

What compelling reason do you have to try to dump him? What case can you make that labels Campbell a failure that you can't make for every other QB in the league not named Peyton Manning or Tom Brady?

[dfbovey]

-19 turnovers in 13 games is no good for any qb at any level in there progression

-2 qb ratings over 100, 2 over 80...everything else below

How many 100+ rating games is the norm for a young quarterback who has only started in 20 games?

Looking at John Elway, it took him 5 years to have a season where he was rated over 80. And he only did it once in his first ten seasons. Hell, his career rating is only 79.9!

Troy Aikman had a rating of 55.7 and 66.6 in his first two seasons. He got better.

The turnovers suck, but they are to be expected of a young quarterback, no matter who you are.

[steve09ru]

How many 100+ rating games is the norm for a young quarterback who has only started in 20 games?

Looking at John Elway, it took him 5 years to have a season where he was rated over 80. And he only did it once in his first ten seasons. Hell, his career rating is only 79.9!

Troy Aikman had a rating of 55.7 and 66.6 in his first two seasons. He got better.

The turnovers suck, but they are to be expected of a young quarterback, no matter who you are.

almost each of the top 20 by passer rating this season, have had atleast an 80 qb rating or better within their first two years of starting...many did that in their first full year.

also as somebody previously said awhile back, qb rating was harder to come in the past (see aikman and elway)

[SoCalSkins]

How many 100+ rating games is the norm for a young quarterback who has only started in 20 games?

Looking at John Elway, it took him 5 years to have a season where he was rated over 80. And he only did it once in his first ten seasons. Hell, his career rating is only 79.9!

Troy Aikman had a rating of 55.7 and 66.6 in his first two seasons. He got better.

The turnovers suck, but they are to be expected of a young quarterback, no matter who you are.

TC put 4 100+ rating after having started 17 games.

[dfbovey]

TC put 4 100+ rating after having started 17 games.

And how old is he?

[Bigmuss1]

As long as he needs. Stop these threads please, JC is just fine.

[dfbovey]

almost each of the top 20 by passer rating this season, have had atleast an 80 qb rating or better within their first two years of starting...many did that in their first full year.

also as somebody previously said awhile back, qb rating was harder to come in the past (see aikman and elway)

Good point regarding the time in which they played, the rules are definitely geared more towards the passing game now. However, the point is that those players went through obvious growing pains rating or not and to a much more extreme degree than Campbell. Despite that, they turned out to be very good.

A QB rating of 77.3 in your first 20 starts is not bad by any means.

[Fergasun]

1 more season. In fact if he doesn't step up in 2008... I'm not going to have higher expectations for 2009.

I think we should get a young QB after this year anyway.... Brunell is going to be gone, we'll have plenty of picks in the draft...

[steve09ru]

I say put JC in sometime next year if Collins happens to struggle or get hurt. Let Campbell continue to learn this system, even if he sits next year, he still has a good 8-10 years in him.

If he can't take over from wherever Collins goes down, then he should go. Not hoping for this situation at all though.

[Passizle]

IMO, all JC needs is to work on his timing, reading defenses, and HOLDING ON TO THE BALL WHEN SACKED.

All are correctable. I would rather have Campbell over any other young QB that was available in 2005.

[Ghost of]

Ramsey had more QB ratings over 100 in 7 games started and with lesser surrounding talent (and a worse blocking scheme for Portis) than

Yet when throwing that pick against the Eagles in 2004, FAR, FAR more people turned against him, even though he had good games later that year than have turned on Campbell and it was his third year in the league--JUST LIKE it's Jason's third year in the league.

His first two years, he also had vastly superior "4th quarter" and "late and close" QB ratings than Jason.

And again, people want to be patient with Jason ASSUMING he'll do something that Ramsey didn't---put it all together in time before a final judgment is made.

[Ghost of]

All are correctable. I would rather have Campbell over any other young QB that was available in 2005.

I don't know. I don't think he's great but Derek Anderson has shown more, IMO, as a QB than Campbell has. Sure, he had a bad game that would have clinched the playoffs but he plays in a superior conference and was the reason Edwards and Winslow were able to show their talent so completely (remember how they were with Frye.)

[ucfSKINS]

hmm. as many people have already mentioned:

Massive losses to the O-line. Banged up WR's. Ineffective running game. Other than that, he sucks lol.

Seriously though, he will be fine. If we didn't have those massive injuries, its a whole different story.

So how long do you ask? I'd give him another two seasons.

[Ghost of]

How many 100+ rating games is the norm for a young quarterback who has only started in 20 games?

Looking at John Elway, it took him 5 years to have a season where he was rated over 80. And he only did it once in his first ten seasons. Hell, his career rating is only 79.9!

Troy Aikman had a rating of 55.7 and 66.6 in his first two seasons. He got better.

But you're throwing stats out there with no meaning. As I demonstrated, in the SAME year in the league as Campbell, Ramsey has one more 100+ rating in 5 fewer games. He also had some high ratings in 2003. this proves nothing in and of itself, other than Ramsey was a more talented passer who suffered from some of the same problems Campbell does (holding the ball too long.)

I'd like to say I totally disagree with your use of stats from the 80s. If you look at the passing games back then, it was harder to amass the high QB ratings unless you were fortunate enough to be in San Fran at the time. Completion percentages in the 50s were just fine for many QBs and were not a sign of ineffective play.

Rules and how the game is called has been changed, along with offensive schemes adjusting to those rules changes. It's why you don't compare 90s-00s receiving stats to Art Monk's.

Aikman was a on an AWFUL team in 89--JUST AWFUL. They needed the results to pay off from the Walker trade and a couple years of rebuilding.

Clearly, this team was in the playoffs in 2005 and just made it with someone else at QB (and not after a 'great' season from the other guy.) Thus, you cannot make the argument that this team was rebuilding and that is why Campbell's play suffered. I'd make the case that people wouldn't be complaining if the year before Campbell we had a terrible defense (2004 was great) and awful offensive personnel (not fantastic but not bad either.)

For the analysis I'm working on of QB development, my cut off is 1995. What I'm seeing so far, though it's not complete, is that in this current era (the Qbs in the league today regarded as good) Campbell's last year to "prove" himself is next year. If he doesn't there is nothing in the history to suggest he will get it in his 5th year.

[33]

The most compelling argument for Campbell is his completion percentage. It was great at Auburn and went up a lot this year. Keep your eye on that number. Most young Qb's who do well increase that percentage and it's a pretty good indicator of the success of the Qb and his team.

From what I've seen of Campbell at Auburn he was pretty good when they put the ball in his hands. It is true to say he had to two good Rb's, but it's also in no way a knock against him.

It's increasingly harder to be a Qb in the NFL. Not too many first round Qb's blow the world away in their first couple of seasons. Look how long it took Drew Brees.

[deejaydana]

How about we judge him fully when he 1) plays behind a healthy O-line w/true starters 2) has healthy WRs 3) has WRs over 6 ft tall 4) has coaches that make smart and aggressive playcalling and allow him to open it up ?

I know he's not perfect but it's rare for a QB to just step in and become the next Elway or Marino. He will get the reins starting next year and hopefully we will be at full strength to help him out.

[Ghost of]

It's increasingly harder to be a Qb in the NFL. Not too many first round Qb's blow the world away in their first couple of seasons. Look how long it took Drew Brees.

Atlanta Skins Fan had a very interesting post which involved QB passing attempts and completion percentage in college. He came to the conclusion that Campbell was not as much of a passer in college (perhaps until that last season) and that it did not bode well for his pro career.

Now, putting that aside, I know he had a great senior year in terms of pct but he was in a West Coast offense there with Al Borges. I don't know how much that played a role. After all, I bet Steve Walsh and many QBs at big-time programs had good completion percentages and have never done a thing in this league of note.

Drew Brees, as I've pointed out numerous times, is (for this era) an anomaly. Most of the very good-to-great QBs that have emerged to start for teams around the league have asserted themselves in improved records and/or excellent statistical performance by their third year.

Brees didn't truly excel until his 4th year and one of the reasons is because the competition of Rivers had compelled him to push himself even harder and take that next step.

I'd add that I don't know why anyone thinks Jason won't turn into a less athletic and less idiotic Aaron Brooks with more character. Brooks had superior statistical season, starting with even his handful of starts in 2000, culminating in a good stretch of years there in NO. The team moved on to Brees and finally stepped up to the next level, though Colston helped also. Brooks, even with some very good numbers and good mobility, just could not make the plays when needed to get that team over the hump.

Then he just collapsed in 2006.