Destino Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Seems Manny had a significant tear in the shoulder. This should be investigated as a fraud if they were allowed to pocket all this money knowing he was essentially a one armed fighter. This fight should have been postponed or canceled. http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/12821905/manny-pacquiao-surgery-significant-tear-rotator-cuff-right-shoulder?ex_cid=espnFB A lot of people lost a lot of money betting on a guy that went into that fight with a major injury. I doubt it's fraud legally, but it isn't good. Of course now they'll fight again next year and another hefty pay day because people are stupid with their money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Not yet confirmed but I'm hearing whispers that #49 for Floyd may be on CBS, not Showtime. Yes as in free. I suspect they are catching on to the notion that nobody will pay for another Floyd fight. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Mayweather the G.O.A.T? For what? Beating an over the hill De la Hoya? Or... A "signature win" over a guy that would've been far more of a threat if they'd fought in their primes? Just like Bill Russell, wins look nice, now take era into consideration. De La Hoya is the fight that made him a sports superstar, he has enough signature wins if people bothered to look. The fights with Genaro Hernandez & Diego Corrales catapaulted him into greatness. I suspect his domination of Canelo will look better with time. The De La Hoya & Pacquiao fights are essentially financial icing on the cake that is his career. He can't be the GOAT, largely due to things outside of his control. He's firmly established himself by far as the best of his era & I'll still argue he is the GOAT at 130lbs. Any rumblings on the number of PPV's they sold? I'm very interested to see where that final number stands. Edited May 5, 2015 by StillUnknown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think most casual fans didnt even know who Floyd was until probably after the De La Hoya fight. And thats probably where the opinion comes from 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) I think most casual fans didnt even know who Floyd was until probably after the De La Hoya fight. And thats probably where the opinion comes from Kind of a shame too because Pre-DLH, Floyd was actually a pretty exciting fighter. He was still the defensive wizard he is today, but he was a terror with his combination punching as well. Edited May 5, 2015 by StillUnknown 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Kind of a shame too because Pre-DLH, Floyd was actually a pretty exciting fighter. He was still the defensive wizard he is today, but he was a terror with his combination punching as well. His beatdown of Chico remains the most wonderous display of pure boxing genius and artistry that ive ever seen. 147 Floyd is stuck in every casual fans mind, but he was simply ridiculous back then he was capable of stopping people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I figured Floyd came to most peoples attention when he won the Bronze Olympic Medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I figured Floyd came to most peoples attention when he won the Bronze Olympic Medal. He had hardcore boxing fans attention, he started to get on the casuals radar when he dissected Arturo Gatti. I still remember the money I made on that fight, people's love for Gatti had them acting foolish with the wallets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) I'd agree most casual fans don't know much of Floyd pre-De La Hoya. He had a pretty good KO ratio in his earlier days. As he has moved up in weight he often is taking on guys naturally bigger and stronger so his punching power hasn't translated to these fights. It's not that he can't KO people, but it has to happen by catching guys off guard rather then simply trading punches. He also has bad hands just like his father & uncle. Which has contributed largely to his strategy in fights. I don't think people who casually follow the sport truly appreciate how much a difference it makes when you are moving up in weight and taking on naturally bigger opponents. Edited May 5, 2015 by NoCalMike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 He had hardcore boxing fans attention, he started to get on the casuals radar when he dissected Arturo Gatti. I still remember the money I made on that fight, people's love for Gatti had them acting foolish with the wallets. Thats when I started hating him. I loved Gatti, and Floyd just beat him senseless, then talked massive amounts of **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I'd agree most casual fans don't know much of Floyd pre-De La Hoya. He had a pretty good KO ratio in his earlier days. As he has moved up in weight he often is taking on guys naturally bigger and stronger so his punching power hasn't translated to these fights. It's not that he can't KO people, but it has to happen by catching guys off guard rather then simply trading punches. I don't think people who casually follow the sport truly appreciate how much a difference it makes when you are moving up in weight and taking on naturally bigger opponents. Which is also something Manny has done through his entire career, albeit with less success but Manny started as a light flyweight. To come from there all the way to welter is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Kind of a shame too because Pre-DLH, Floyd was actually a pretty exciting fighter. He was still the defensive wizard he is today, but he was a terror with his combination punching as well. He was a far looser fighter than he is today, but the fundamental issue with him as always been his lack of power. What makes him so remarkable is that to be great with as little power as he has, you have to be perfect in nearly every other aspect of boxing. And he is perfect in every other aspect of boxing. I don't really care about GOAT discussions in boxing. I care about entertaining fighters. I never dug Floyd because his fights were always going to follow roughly the same pattern. He was never going to get hit. He would hit enough to win points, but never enough to knock someone out unless the guy just stood in front of him and basically begged to be knocked out (like Ricky Hatton did). It's not the defensive fighter thing that bothers me with Floyd. Roy Jones, Jr was as good a defensive fighter as anyone in history (until his skills deteriorated to the point that anyone could knock him out), but Jones had remarkable punching power. Granted, he was a legit light heavyweight not a Super Flyweight. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I never dug Floyd because his fights were always going to follow roughly the same pattern. He was never going to get hit. He would hit enough to win points, but never enough to knock someone out unless the guy just stood in front of him and basically begged to be knocked out (like Ricky Hatton did). I still say it was the turnbuckle that knocked out Ricky Hatton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Thats when I started hating him. I loved Gatti, and Floyd just beat him senseless, then talked massive amounts of **** Gatti was a shell of himself at that point and was frankly never skilled enough to hang with Floyd at his best. A prime Gatti might have been interesting because he would have been willing to bleed out to get to Floyd and we've never seen Floyd really pressed before. That's why Pac five years again would have been a fascinating opponent. The only way to beat Floyd is basically to be willing to get hit while being active enough to get a lucky shot in and then have that lucky shot be powerful enough to finally hurt Floyd. The only way Floyd was ever going to get beat was by a huge punch delivered by a guy with the skill to throw a bunch more huge shots in the five second after that huge punch landed. Jesus...when you really look at his career, no one has ever made more money off boxing's ugly tribalism than Floyd. Let's milk the Hispanic fans this time as I beat up their over the hill hero..... Let's milk the Mexican fans this time as I beat up their over the hill hero.... Let's milk the New Jersey Italians as I beat up their over the hill hero..... Let's milk the British as I beat up their over the hill hero.... Hey....any Filipinos in the house? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 LKB, You better duck for cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Gatti was a shell of himself at that point and was frankly never skilled enough to hang with Floyd at his best. A prime Gatti might have been interesting because he would have been willing to bleed out to get to Floyd and we've never seen Floyd really pressed before. There is no version of Gatti that would have ever made for a close fight with Mayweather. Even at his absolute best, Gatti was severely limited. He was brawler with a heart very few could match. Heart was never enough to keep him from being battered when he stepped up against a top fighter. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 There is no version of Gatti that would have ever made for a close fight with Mayweather. Even at his absolute best, Gatti was severely limited. He was brawler with a heart very few could match. Heart was never enough to keep him from being battered when he stepped up against a top fighter. True. Floyd IS an interesting fighter to talk about, because it's extremely rare that the discussion centers on the fact that it's impossible to actually hit a fighter. That's the bottom line with him - how do you hit him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 It would start with a strong jab. Next id go with someone who knows how to cut the ring off and trap him. He is at his best when in the center of the ring. And have a murderous mindset, and not slip into that classic Mayweather opponent mental maze, which slows everyone down to where he can pick them off at will. Basically, Tommy Hearns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Of all the potential opponents for September, I believe Erislandy Lara would be interesting. If he fights on free TV, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think he is supposed to fight next month to defend his belt. Then he would have to drop weight and fight again in 3 months ? Ehhh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) I think people are overlooking A) how stiff Floyd's jab is B ) how effective his counter right is If it was as simple as walking through his punches to get inside, then you'd have seen guys like Maidana do it more. Remember the first fight, Maidana was eating punches in order to get inside and brawl for the first half the fight but eventually he wore down and tasted enough of Floyd's leather that he stopped doing it. The beauty of a counter-puncher is that it doesn't take the same amount of power to really rough up your opponent because you mostly catch your opponent walking into the punch and if you are able to do it from different angles like Floyd can, you often don't see it coming which means a punch half as powerful can still be lethal. This is my main argument as to why I think Floyd actually stops Pac in 2008/09/10 because I think we see a more aggressive version of Pac which really would work even more in Mayweather's favor as the probability of him getting stunned & staggered by a counter-right increases greatly. The Pac we saw Saturday was much more cautious and unwilling to really press which is not what most people expected. He mostly hung back at Floyd's range and only really got aggressive a couple times in the fight when he had Floyd against the ropes. If the fight happens 5 years ago, I think the scorecards are closer because Pac had more gas in the tank to get inside, but there is also a much increased chance that Manny gets dropped in a similar fashion that he has when he has fought JMM in the past. Edited May 5, 2015 by NoCalMike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think he is supposed to fight next month to defend his belt. Then he would have to drop weight and fight again in 3 months ? Ehhh... I didn't realize he was fighting next month. Scratch that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I didn't realize he was fighting next month. Scratch that idea. Was a good idea, a fight I would be interested in seeing. NoCal, I honestly think Floyd might be the best counter-puncher I have ever seen. It's incredible to watch. I get that he doesn't have the power these days to knock out most guys ( at that weight), his skill set though is on a level that other fighters just can't really deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WALEOVECHKIN Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 If Floyd is fighting on CBS in September then I think Danny Garcia will get the nod. He headlined one of those cards already and his dad will sell the fight ridiculously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 You think Floyd needs help selling a fight ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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