Peregrine Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Is this a joke thread? Seriously, this must be a satire piece. There is no way any sane rational human being holds to the view that Brunell actually is a better QB than JC(deny it, you used stats to patheticaly attempt to prove it). No way. Yes, you are correct. Brunell lead the NFL in passing behind the line of scrimmage, and yes, those screen plays turned out to be big gains by the skill of the person running the ball. No QB was better passing behind the line of scrimmage than Brunell. Yes, Brunell had a better winning % than JC last season(whoop de frickin do). Brunell managed to win 3 games, then loose the rest by large margins. In fact under Brunells apt leadership, when the Skins lost, they lost big. With 4 of the 6 loses coming by 14 points, 16 points, 17 points, and 24 points, Brunell managed to win 3 games, one against a horrible team(houston), one in which he got saved by special teams in a miracle(dallas), and one in OT(Jacksonville). Meanwhile... JC managed to win a game against the playoff bound Saints, and lost only one game by more than 6 points. Thats right, in every loss but one(Atlanta by 10) JC kept us within one single TD of winning the game. In 162 pass attempts Brunell completed only 27 passes more than 10 yards downfield. In 110 pass attempts Campbell completed 30. 27% of his completions were caught more than 10 yards downfield. 16% of Brunells. Sit down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Jason fact: He sat on the bench his entire time here and got no reps with the starters. So whats your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Day Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Is this a joke thread? Seriously, this must be a satire piece. There is no way any sane rational human being holds to the view that Brunell actually is a better QB than JC(deny it, you used stats to patheticaly attempt to prove it).No way. Yes, you are correct. Brunell lead the NFL in passing behind the line of scrimmage, and yes, those screen plays turned out to be big gains by the skill of the person running the ball. No QB was better passing behind the line of scrimmage than Brunell. Yes, Brunell had a better winning % than JC last season(whoop de frickin do). Brunell managed to win 3 games, then loose the rest by large margins. In fact under Brunells apt leadership, when the Skins lost, they lost big. With 4 of the 6 loses coming by 14 points, 16 points, 17 points, and 24 points, Brunell managed to win 3 games, one against a horrible team(houston), one in which he got saved by special teams in a miracle(dallas), and one in OT(Jacksonville). Meanwhile... JC managed to win a game against the playoff bound Saints, and lost only one game by more than 6 points. Thats right, in every loss but one(Atlanta by 10) JC kept us within one single TD of winning the game. In 162 pass attempts Brunell completed only 27 passes more than 10 yards downfield. In 110 pass attempts Campbell completed 30. 27% of his completions were caught more than 10 yards downfield. 16% of Brunells. Sit down. Stop using stats and proof, the brunell lovers will skip past them and say we ignore them eventhough they have skipped most of the stats and facts presented to them numerous times. It is almost comical if it wasn't so sad. Like the name calling guys, the maturity is great to see. You can't prove a point so you resort to name calling, yeah that helps you out. -No one can explain why MB looks lost - I guess it is the other 10 guys who are to blame. -No one can explain why we averaged more yards per rush while JC was the QB with CP on the bench -No one can explain why the offense stalls over and over again with MB on the field. -No one has attempted to refute the passing stats except for the 1 person who said they resemble Bart Star, great they resemble a QB for the what 60's. I think the NFL was a bit different at that time. Those are just four points off the top of my head and no one will be able to explain your points either, so they will be ignored. Yet the people who never want to see MB play again in a skins uniform are the ones who ignore facts and don't prove anything. Yet the only statistics and proof I have seen here has come from the "Haters" side. We are not haters we can just see crappy QB play for what it is. It is pathetic and a telling statement that the redskins have had such horrible play from the QB position over the past 15 years or so that half the fans are satisfied with one good game for every 3 bad ones and they are comforted with what he brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinthemboys Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Campbell also beat a playoff team, the division winning Saints. heeeeeyyy bo! i gotta call ya on this.... the defense won this game. the only time they showed up all season, but still. the D won this game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 And if he decides to go with Collins as backup after preseason, your excuse will be... (?) No excuses, Bleed. If Collins earns it, so be it. Doesn't mean he can play in the regular season. If he has to and does it well, I benefit as a Redskin fan. I don't start threads every week blasting Collins like many here do to Brunell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 You know what? I didn't even mean to pick on Collins. My defending Mark Brunell has nothing to do with Todd Collins. I simply think that with Joe Gibbs having 2 years left (max), we should keep Mark Brunell's experience on the roster. Plain and simple. We are thin on "QB experience" if we lose him. He was so dynamic as a Jaguar and he's got integrity and character. It's truly a no-lose situation to have Brunell in DC. If we have to start him, we know for sure he can manage a game and he can manage a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 It's truly a no-lose situation to have Brunell in DC. If we have to start him, we know for sure he can manage a game and he can manage a season. No he sucks. It is a lose and lose some more situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rafterman Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Don't care! It's time for Boonell to get out of dodge. He was a mistake, and a big one at that. Gibbs maynot admit it, but knows it all to well. EXACTLY He won't admit it, and I think less of him for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeenzfan Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Not another Brunell is still a pro bowl QB thread :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 No excuses, Bleed. If Collins earns it, so be it. Doesn't mean he can play in the regular season. If he has to and does it well, I benefit as a Redskin fan. I don't start threads every week blasting Collins like many here do to Brunell. Well, even though it's for backup, we wouldn't be Redskins fans if we didn't have a QB controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins2Win33 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 One thing we definitely know from watching the Steeler game is that Brunell can dust Collins in a race. I didnt realize the that turtles could run watching him try to scramble, LOL. Actually they r both good in their own ways, lets just hope no matter who is the backup, they perform at a high level when the time comes that they r needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBNG Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 One thing we definitely know from watching the Steeler game is that Brunell can dust Collins in a race. I didnt realize the that turtles could run watching him try to scramble, LOL. :laugh: He did look at times like a forced wind was pushing him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Mark Brunell 86.5 Rating :excited: :excited: :excited: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 Is this a joke thread? Seriously, this must be a satire piece. There is no way any sane rational human being holds to the view that Brunell actually is a better QB than JC(deny it, you used stats to patheticaly attempt to prove it).Sit down. From the original post: * DISCLAIMER: Campbell is the future. Brunell is the past. I fully support Campbell as starter, and Brunell as backup. Comparisons to Campbell were used to show that Brunell has some merit as QB in the case that he would come in for an injured Campbell, not to claim that Brunell is a better option at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 It seems to be the consensus that Collins has played at least a little better than Mark these first two pre season games, agreed by all, or most all? If so, there is also plenty of anecdotal comments that Todd has looked at least a bit sharper than Mark in practice. Agreed? If so, then we, as fans, have a baseline to start from. As of right now, Collins is playing at least a bit better than Mark. If that is pretty much agreed upon, then, as fans, can we agree that if this trend continues over the next two preseason games, that it is pretty much agreed that Collins is doing better than Mark, then would we all say that that current results should be the deciding factor between the two and that Collins then would have earned the #2 spot? Your reasoning was sound up until this point. Collins has played less than 1 full quarter against a starting-caliber defense. Just last season, Brunell played half the season against starting-caliber defenses. Therefore it's going to take a lot more than a quarter or two to convince any logical evaluator of talent that Collins is better than Brunell. Now, if Collins' play were PARTICULARLY outstanding, then he'd have a case. But one touchdown on a drive that was already halfway completed is good, but not particularly outstanding. If Brunell's play were particularly horrible, then Collins would have a case. But his play hasn't been horrible. His receivers have been horrible: the guys tripping over their own feet on routes, tipping the balls to the other team, and committing 15 yard penalties...they've been attrocious. But Brunell? No, he did pretty good. For his part, he led a solid 2 minute drill. But right now I'd say that while Collins has outplayed Brunell thusfar this preseason, he's going to have to do much more than just barely outplay Brunell to get the job. With the starters, we know Brunell can be mediocre. With the starters, we have absolutely no idea how Collins will be, but it will probably be bad (unless he removes all doubts in these next 2 games). Can we also agree that the Brunell fans would be better served to accept that the non Brunell fans do not hate the guy. We just think that had Joe given Ramsey anywhere near the unconditional support he has given Mark then we would have gone to the Superbowl in 2005, Dallas would have been hit by Katrina, the housing market would not be collapsing and American Idol would have been banned by the FCC. We don't hate the guy. We just think the world would have been a better place had he stayed in Jacksonville. It's not personal. Just business. I can agree with your sentiment. I think that if we had not acquired Brunell, I think the QB situation would be a lot more stable here. I think if we had used these past 3 seasons to develop Ramsey, we could have made him into something respectable, and he would have been much further in his development right now than Campbell is. However that does not cloud my judgement over the battle at #2 QB. The past is the past. What can this guy do for me this season? He can be a very good backup QB. Unfortunately, not everyone can look at the situation as objectively as you or I, which is why you see all the "Brunell sucks! We should cut him no matter what!" posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted August 22, 2007 Author Share Posted August 22, 2007 Now it is not the cap space that drives my determination to see him gone. It is the obvious with your eyes analysis that he just doesn't have it and he is a liability to this offense. Todd Collins, although he is a career backup with many of the same flaws as MB, actually showed knowledge of the offense with his quick reactions to the blitzes and he also showed some touch. Now MB had to wind up to get the passes down the middle and for any distance. At one time it may have been valid to say that Collins has a weaker arm, now I am not so sure. Add to that, that he doesn't appear to have the same grasp of the O, it is always wr, rb, out of bounds. This is the final thing I would like to reply to - this notion that Collins has a superior grasp of the offense to Brunell. My question is this: You don't think that after 1 year in the system, the difference between Collins' and Brunell's knowledge of the system has become irrelevant? You don't think that a veteran QB with 1 year of "classroom" and 1/2 a year "in the field" training cannot sufficiently grasp the system? I don't think Al Saunders would agree with this. Yes, Collins may know more. But at this point they should both know so much that it really doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Edds Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Personally, I just think Collins looks a lot more poised and confident and in command of the offense when he has had his few opportunities to be on the field, and that Brunell has looked old, rusty, unable to move and confused. No disrespect to Brunell and what he has accomplished in his career, but if i were coach and i had to make that choice i would take my chances with Collins as the #2. It's that basic, for me anyway. Hopefully all of this is a moot point. HTTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyriggins Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 About 4 weeks ago before Hamlet was released someone did a poll on who should be the backup QB. I know what you are going thur all this hate you are talking about. Todd Collins was NOT even listed as an option on the poll! Only about 5 of us voted for him anyway. You want to talk about stats? I was also a Ramsey reporter. He had a Qb rating 10 points higher than Brunell. But Gibbs had too much invested in Brunell to for Ramsey to have a chance. The reason alot of fans want Brunell gone is because Gibbs played favortism to a fault. ONe thing that I disagree with what has been said on this thread: If Campbell goes down our season is done. We dont know what Jason Campbell can do yet! Dont get me I like him better than Brunell. We know Mark is not the answer. we know Collins is not the long term answer. What I am saying is that Gibbs is not too good at picking QBs, so dont be suprized if Campbell struggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4skins23 Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Give us some youth!!!!! IF you must get rid of a QB. Then Brunell I guess. But PLEASE don't make Collins #2. Go with BRamlet, or Palmer. I for one will accept any consequences. I keep telling people. Many of the Hall of Fame QB's were not 1st string Qb's.... We all COULD be suprised with a young QB in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Give us some youth!!!!! IF you must get rid of a QB. Then Brunell I guess. But PLEASE don't make Collins #2. Go with BRamlet, or Palmer. I for one will accept any consequences. I keep telling people. Many of the Hall of Fame QB's were not 1st string Qb's....We all COULD be suprised with a young QB in. Bramlet was cut weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskinaholic Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 I say either way, we are royally screwed at the backup QB situation. If Campbell goes down, we are up you know whats creek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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