Halftime review -- Woe is Jansen.

[kevinklein]

I love it how the you-tube..yahoo generation always needs somebody to gang up on..if this is about making Brian Mitchell a relevant opinion..who cares?

I could care less about a first preseason game..blocking for Rock and Blaylock..and nobody picking up blitzes..Betts was out of there..his last

game-center reference was at 11:41 in the first qtr..

Jason held the ball too long at times..and i have yet to hear a reference as to who the player was that kept housing Jansen..

this thread is all about underlings cow-towing to veteran poster looking for validation..by agreeing with him..Jansen will do fine..nobody ever called him a pro-bowler..

The You-Tube/Yahoo generation? The fact that we're all a virtual Redskins discussion board makes that generalization about as ignorant as me grouping you in the discovery of electricity generation. What color was Ben Franklin's kite? Oh, and was that hair real?

I didn't say anything about Brian Mitchell, nor did I even say anything negative. I never said Jansen wouldn't be fine. If you read what I wrote (or maybe you need to invest in a new pair of half-moon spectacles, old man) you'd see that I said I hoped it was due to being rusty.

I don't need validation from someone I'll never see or meet. I come to this board to discuss my favorite team because I have to wait another week to see them play. This board is a haven for people that share my sentiments, not people waiting for validation. Now take out your dentures, get your son or daughter to make you some mashed potatoes, and think about what you've said.

****ing hate the age card.

[Curb Feeler]

Two words TODD WADE!!!!! He played his hind-parts off last year. I know they want him to play guard. Ol' J.J. came back from his injuries so quick because he knew Mr. Wade was handling his buisness.

[terpfan44]

IThis board is a haven for people that share my sentiments, not people waiting for validation.

****ing hate the age card.

Share your sentiments...wow aren't we the epitomy of the true fan..

it didn't take long to get proof..you still have said nothing at all..about the team..while we are all still sucking up..do you know who the player was that supposedly schooled Jansen ?..I knew you didn't.

[terpfan44]

it wouldn't matter if Jonathan Ogden and Oralndo Pace were bookend tackles here..

as long as there is no possession reciever..a Qb that can consistently get the ball downfield ...and be depended upon to do what Collins did last night..unload quickly to skilled guys..get the ball outside the box..to loosen things up

the line will continue to be stacked up against and tee-ed off on at every opportunity..it's what happened at fed-ex last yr..when the Titans beat them in the regular season..why would last night be any different?

[kevinklein]

Share your sentiments...wow aren't we the epitomy of the true fan..

it didn't take long to get proof..you still have said nothing at all..about the team..while we are all still sucking up..do you know who the player was that supposedly schooled Jansen ?..I knew you didn't.

My sentiments? My sentiments are that for the three or four months out of the year that I get to watch the Redskins take the field there's a whole new aspect to my life. It sounds dramatic, but it's true. From game-end Sunday to Kickoff the next Sunday football fans think about their team for hours on end a day. This place is a place to convene and discuss with other fans. Where in the hell you got the idea that I was talking about Mitchell, I don't know, and where you got the idea that I was seeking some sort of validation from a moderator, I don't know either.

I've been on this board for over a year and a half, and I've been here discussing the Skins every day of it. In all that time never had the sense that I needed to suck up to anyone to get recognition. This place isn't about recognition, it's about quelling a need for football when it's the only place we can get it.

I don't know what your "epitomy of a true fan" is. Is it dressing up like a woman, or making your to FedEx field for every home game? I don't know. Every Sunday I deck myself in Skins gear, sit on my couch, and go on an emotional rollercoaster with the team. When the team's not playing, I need to be here, to talk with other people went through what I did that previous Sunday. I don't know if that's your epitomy, but it's damn sure good enough for me.

And no, I don't know who was schooling Jansen. If I had to guess I'd say Kyle Vandenbosch. I also don't know what the hell that has to do with anything? Why don't you enlighten me.

[theTruthTeller]

I may be in the minority here - but I was unimpressed by the defense last night. Without Vince and Travis Henry, the Titans have nobodies on offense. Still, Kerry Collins was able to lead them on several decent drives, although the defense tightened up inside the 20.

We'll know better when they play the Steelers next week. I expect both teams to do at least a little of game-planning, so it will be a good test.

[TSO]

What happened to all the defensive haters on here? I guess they don't wanna hear that " I told you so " speech :laugh: :laugh:

They're too busy focusing on our offensive problems now. Next game, when our Defense doesn't look as good and our Offense corrects all the mistakes they made IN THEIR FIRST PRESEASON GAME, they'll be right back ragging on the D.

One thing in life remains consistent: Those with bad attitudes will always find and latch onto bad things. I really feel bad for the loved ones close to these people... surrounded by heaps of negativity.

I may be in the minority here - but I was unimpressed by the defense last night. Without Vince and Travis Henry, the Titans have nobodies on offense. Still, Kerry Collins was able to lead them on several decent drives, although the defense tightened up inside the 20.

We'll know better when they play the Steelers next week. I expect both teams to do at least a little of game-planning, so it will be a good test.

Kerry Collins is a vet, and he'll take what you give him. I was actually worried he'd absolutely shred us, especially when we sent the all-out blitzes. Last year, we had average to below-average QBs absolutely own us on those all-out blitzes. To finally see us get to the QB in time before he could get the ball to his hot-read was a beautiful thing. Are speed is back, and yet we still complain?

Come on now... Several decent drives you say? They managed to get into field goal range 2 times with the starters. I'll take that any day. The point is, we went in there and took care of business, whether it was Vince Young or not. Oh, and Travis Henry doesn't play for them anymore. We went against their starting RB. :doh:

It's amazing how some of us just refuse to give credit where credit is due. The way our D played last year, Kerry Collins would've had one of his best days against us. The fact that we pretty much kept him in check, along with rushing him on almost EVERY THROW is more than enough for me to realize we are a better D this time around. London Fletcher alone has improved us. The only question I still have is at the CB position. Smoot did NOT impress me, Shawn Springs got beat by a TE (albeit a fast one, who he was very physical with and managed to lose at the worst time... Shawn played well either than that). Carlos looked good though. He didn't get beat at all.

[Art]

I love it how the you-tube..yahoo generation always needs somebody to gang up on..if this is about making Brian Mitchell a relevant opinion..who cares?

I could care less about a first preseason game..blocking for Rock and Blaylock..and nobody picking up blitzes..Betts was out of there..his last

game-center reference was at 11:41 in the first qtr..

Jason held the ball too long at times..and i have yet to hear a reference as to who the player was that kept housing Jansen..

this thread is all about underlings cow-towing to veteran poster looking for validation..by agreeing with him..Jansen will do fine..nobody ever called him a pro-bowler..

I'm a fan of Jansen and agree with you he'll do fine. So, exactly what do you think you and I are saying differently. Is it your view he did a good job? If so, this is less about people needing someone to agree with and more about a few who refuse to be honest enough to say factual things.

[BraveWarrior]

I've always liked Jon Jansen. His ability to shut down Michael Strahan (who I hate with a passion) always made his stock go up in my book. He is another year older though, and it may take time for him to get up to football speed. So I'm not going to worry too much about last night's performace. If, come Septemebr, he is still struggling, then we'll have to be concerned. But the guy is a professional. He'll see his performance on film and he'll recognize where he could have done better, and he'll take care of it.

As for those of you who said Heyer gave up the sack, I think he was faced with the decision of who to block - the opposing lineman, or the blitzer who came up over him. He's a rookie and he can't call time-out to go ask Buges what he should do there. Campbell admits he didn't check that properly, and Campbell is ultimately responsible for holding onto the ball. In the scheme of things, I'm not worried about this. Campbell will handle the situation better next time, and Heyer will review the play with Buges and learn from it.

[BraveWarrior]

My sentiments? My sentiments are that for the three or four months out of the year that I get to watch the Redskins take the field there's a whole new aspect to my life. It sounds dramatic, but it's true. From game-end Sunday to Kickoff the next Sunday football fans think about their team for hours on end a day. This place is a place to convene and discuss with other fans. Where in the hell you got the idea that I was talking about Mitchell, I don't know, and where you got the idea that I was seeking some sort of validation from a moderator, I don't know either.

I've been on this board for over a year and a half, and I've been here discussing the Skins every day of it. In all that time never had the sense that I needed to suck up to anyone to get recognition. This place isn't about recognition, it's about quelling a need for football when it's the only place we can get it.

I don't know what your "epitomy of a true fan" is. Is it dressing up like a woman, or making your to FedEx field for every home game? I don't know. Every Sunday I deck myself in Skins gear, sit on my couch, and go on an emotional rollercoaster with the team. When the team's not playing, I need to be here, to talk with other people went through what I did that previous Sunday. I don't know if that's your epitomy, but it's damn sure good enough for me.

Well said. But I wish there weren't so many of these confrontations on this board. We're all fans, and it's more fun to talk about all the joy of being Redskins fans that we share, rather than barking at each other.

As far as looking for validation from the mods - I don't know where Terpfan pulled that from. There may be times where everyone is agreeing with them, but why can't we just chalk it up to that fact that the mods here are knowledgeable?

[kevinklein]

Well said. But I wish there weren't so many of these confrontations on this board. We're all fans, and it's more fun to talk about all the joy of being Redskins fans that we share, rather than barking at each other.

As far as looking for validation from the mods - I don't know where Terpfan pulled that from. There may be times where everyone is agreeing with them, but why can't we just chalk it up to that fact that the mods here are knowledgeable?

I agree. The age card just chaps my ass sometimes. It's lame to pull that out.

[BraveWarrior]

I agree. The age card just chaps my ass sometimes. It's lame to pull that out.

Agreed. I hate the pulling of any "cards" to try to gain an advantage in a debate.

[UNC-Skins]

its just a bunch of :pooh: coming out of your mouth

I guess I better not hold my breath

i'd hold my breath...

[mistertim]

Again ups and downs need defined.

Pennington with his first start, I believe, didn't lose a game until the AFC Championship that year. Would be a HOFer had he not ripped his shoulder. When he is hurt the Jets are a 3-13 team. When he plays, they make the playoffs. I think he qualifies as a qB with less than 7 starts who had no "ups and downs". And if he is average like you say, what does that say for JC? Practice squad?

Romo sits to pee=unknown. Maybe. I sure hope so. Performed much better than JC has with fewer games under his belt.

Ben? Unbeaten as a starting rookie and a SB. Again meeting the original poster's specs.

The others are HOFers, pro-bowlers. That's the point. That's what we want and JC isn't one.

I'd say it was an excellent job on my part.

I'd agree, if you were talking about excellence in lacking research. Chad Pennington actually lost the first 5 games he started in...lost very badly in most of them. Sorta sounds like one o' them "learning curve" things.

McNair played in a total of 16 games his first 2 seasons. In his 3rd, where he was the full time starter, he had a comp % of 52, 14 TDs and 13 INTs. And this is after already having seen action in 16 games. Not exactly stellar and obviously there were ups and downs. Again, that crazy learning curve thing seems to be in effect.

John Elway was awful his first year. He played in 11 games and had a comp % of 47.5, 7 TDs and 14 INTs. His second year, where he was a full time starter, was mediocre. Wait...is this that..."learning curve" thing again? Sounds like he had some "ups and downs" (mostly downs his first year).

How does Tony Romo sits to pee have "fewer games under his belt"? He started in 12 games last year. I'm not a mathematician, but I'm pretty sure that 12 > 7. He was also the very definition of "ups and downs" when you look at all of his games. Started out ok, then got strong, then had some horrible games.

Of course there are exceptions. Marino came out and was great. Ben did too, though he seems to have fallen on hard times last season. Brady as well. But they are the very rare exceptions. Troy Aikman was very subpar his first two full years at the helm with comp percentages in the low to mid 50s. First season he had 9 TDs and 18 INTs. Second season 11 TDs, 18 INTs.

So how about we give Campbell a bit more than 7 games plus 1 preseason game before we throw him under the bus or proclaim that he is mediocre and hasn't progressed, eh?

[Taylorfan2179]

strange but yes the o line scared me and Jansen looked pretty poor.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

I'd agree, if you were talking about excellence in lacking research. Chad Pennington actually lost the first 5 games he started in...lost very badly in most of them. Sorta sounds like one o' them "learning curve" things.

McNair played in a total of 16 games his first 2 seasons. In his 3rd, where he was the full time starter, he had a comp % of 52, 14 TDs and 13 INTs. And this is after already having seen action in 16 games. Not exactly stellar and obviously there were ups and downs. Again, that crazy learning curve thing seems to be in effect.

John Elway was awful his first year. He played in 11 games and had a comp % of 47.5, 7 TDs and 14 INTs. His second year, where he was a full time starter, was mediocre. Wait...is this that..."learning curve" thing again? Sounds like he had some "ups and downs" (mostly downs his first year).

How does Tony Romo sits to pee have "fewer games under his belt"? He started in 12 games last year. I'm not a mathematician, but I'm pretty sure that 12 > 7. He was also the very definition of "ups and downs" when you look at all of his games. Started out ok, then got strong, then had some horrible games.

Of course there are exceptions. Marino came out and was great. Ben did too, though he seems to have fallen on hard times last season. Brady as well. But they are the very rare exceptions. Troy Aikman was very subpar his first two full years at the helm with comp percentages in the low to mid 50s. First season he had 9 TDs and 18 INTs. Second season 11 TDs, 18 INTs.

So how about we give Campbell a bit more than 7 games plus 1 preseason game before we throw him under the bus or proclaim that he is mediocre and hasn't progressed, eh?

Actually Pennington did not lose his first 5 games badly. He took over in week 5. They were 1-3 at the time. They finished 9-7. Making him 8-4 as a starter in regular season, and 10-5 including playoffs. He had a 104 rating. Had a lot less talent to work with than the Skins are supposed to have. JC is nowhere near that.

Aikman and Elway... you make a good point, except that both those guys were thrown to the wolves as rookies on bad teams. JC was not.

My only point in all of this is that since JC(who I really am pulling for, I like the kid) was named starter, so many of us decided our offense is set. Why? He hasn't performed better than Brunell who sucks, right? We have to fix the d(which I agree with) and we will roll. Well, that's just assinine. I don't care that we were 13th in total offense. We can't score points. You can't win enough games in the NFL scoring 17 -18 points a game. Even if your d is top 5 you will struggle to win. Until we get a franchise qb playing at a high level every week we will be an also ran. There is no evidence to date that he is better than all the other run of the mill qbs in the league.(Guys like Charlie Frey, Joey Harrington, David Carr) Maybe he will be someday. I'm tired of waiting for that guy. I saw nothing Saturday to make me think it will be this year.

[Drunken Master III]

It's hard to take his analysis seriously Art when SMG makes statements like this in the gamethread:

In other words, Jason has to be perfect.

:doh:

Exactly... lol... lower your expectations dude... give him some time

[Warrior1971]

I am not going to be too quick to pull the trigger yet, but once we play the 3rd game of our pre-season and these issues have not been corrected I will pass judgement then. I feel we are looking better on D so far than we did last year, Offensive line with Samuels there will be a more improved unit. Once Portis and Betts get healthy I feel we can have a legit chance at going somewhere. I don't see a superbowl team here yet, but as we all know there is enough talent on this team to become one if they get all thier ducks in a row and play good team and mistake free ball. As far as Jansen, he is a vet and we know what he can do so don't count him out so quick.

[Loxley]

Some fans come here to discuss our team, some only to diss or cuss. I've seen plenty of both in this thread and Kevinklein, for a guy of your age you argue eloquently and logically. You are credit to the youth of this board my friend.

I will resist the urge to comment further but wish to thank everyone for their insight so far on this topic, I didnt get to see the game but have drawn enough from your analysis to wait for the next game at least for more information.

[funguy1286]

Ramsy showed more promise than Campbell.

May have to agree here.

I'm not saying Campbell is going to wind up like Ramsey but Ramsey looked alot better then Campbell when he first got off the bench.

[funguy1286]

Who? I vaguely remember a Ramsey that was cut by the Jets and is struggling to make the roster at Denver...that Ramsey?

Which is exactly why it is scary that Ramsey showed more promise then Campbell.

[D'Pablo]

Ramsey sucked. The highest QB rating for a season that he ever posted was a 75.8, unless you want to count his spot duty in 05', which was a 95.3 (60% COMP PCT, 279 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT) with just under two games played. Campbell, in his first couple of starts put up a 76.5. For those of you claiming, Ramsey had a better team, you're retarded. Ramsey never had to deal with the 31st ranked D holding his team back. He also had a healthy Coles, whereas Campbell had to deal with an injured Moss. Ramsey caused sacks, whereas Campbell avoided them, leading to fewer sacks with almost the exact same offensive line. Ramsey never was, and never will be, as good as Jason Campbell.

[pjfootballer]

Why is Heyer getting a good grade in here? The first sack came on his side and he was shaky. he could have had a bad holding penalty or 2. Jansen was overpowered on the 2nd fumble. He needs to improve. Shows how bad we need CP and his blocking to pick up the blitz. They owned our left side in blitzes.

[ouvan59]

Actually Pennington did not lose his first 5 games badly. He took over in week 5. They were 1-3 at the time. They finished 9-7. Making him 8-4 as a starter in regular season, and 10-5 including playoffs. He had a 104 rating. Had a lot less talent to work with than the Skins are supposed to have. JC is nowhere near that.

Had a lot less talent to work with??? Do you mean other than HOF-bound Curtis Martin and both Laveraneus Coles (pre-toe) and Santana Moss? I'm not trying to say that Campbell is or isn't going to be as good as Pennington, but let's not distort the facts here. Pennington was also entering his 3rd year in the league. In limited work his first two seasons Pennington completed less than 50% of his passes.

There is no hard and fast rule on how a QB starts determining where they end up. There just isn't. Some great ones have been terrible their first opportunity, some have been great from the get go. Some QBs get better some don't. It is way too early to state with great confidence what Campbell is going to turn out to be. He has some things that he has to correct but it looks like those are all correctable. We'll find out soon enough but drawing any conclusions good or bad from one preseason game is pretty foolish.

[darrell1106]

May have to agree here.

I'm not saying Campbell is going to wind up like Ramsey but Ramsey looked alot better then Campbell when he first got off the bench.

Just tagged on to the discusson (not sure how this relates to the thread title but whatever) but if this is what people are starting to compare JC to; a supbar QB, w/ a strong arm, victim of multiple HCs and offensive coord. and also from a suspect college program in Tulane, then we skins fans have reached a new low.

The guy definitely didn't have the greatest game in his pre-season debut but in less then 7 reg. season starts and one pre-season half he was okay to me. He realized his mistakes, hopefully learned from them and is moving on.

I think I understand the hastiness of skins fans to throw a QB or even a career long redskin under the bus (Jansen) after one pre-season game due to our 10 year mediocrity as an organization. I am with you on that. It is about time for this team to win and win now.

But comparing JC to Ramsey; I'm not buying that!:2cents: