CrypticVillain Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 yes he did, however it was all on his legs. He is still a below-average passer, and that is teh stigma on black qbs that has survived. If Vince Young can develop into a pass-first, run-second quarterback then that will go away. If he doesn't he will be another Michael Vick, a player with so much potential who didn't even live up to half of it, so sad. A QB's legs can only care him for so long but in the end the position is about moving the ball through the air. Well said. And that is why I am glad that Jason Campbell is the way he is. No matter how his career ends up I will respect that he thinks pass first even though he has the ability to pull a Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasSucks19922010 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 are there actually people that care about the color of anothers skin anymore? when i watch football, the only color i see his the uniforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desioreo87 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 are there actually people that care about the color of anothers skin anymore? when i watch football, the only color i see his the uniforms. In short, yes. We are still growing up in a racially conscious society where everything is politicized and criticized and so there are ingrained prejudices, not by choice, which people still have to fight internally because they are usually in the subconscious. I will admit that whenever I see a black QB who i have never heard of i usually assume he is fast or can scramble no matter how wrong it maybe, this is because the black QBs we have been exposed have been, and some still are, scramblers. When more passing qbs like JC and Russell and Leftwich come into the league this preconcieved notions of mine will change. Again people usually aren't trying to judge someone but when you have been expsoed to predominantly scrambling black QBs then you tend to form the assumption that most of them are scramblers. Just to provide another example, when you see a white qb you have never heard, do you think that he is a pass-first qb or a run-first qb? I can tell you that i usually think that they are passers and not scramblers but again that goes along with a majority of white qbs being passers instead of scramblers, again if the percentage of white qbs that scramble increases than so will my preconcieved assumptions about white qbs. Its not a black-white thing, its more of a past-present thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borninblood Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 It's a non-issue anymore. I mean how many people think of Jason Campbell as a black QB? He is a burgundy and gold QB. Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleskins Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 The state of the black QB is excellent. Warren Moon is in the HOF, Jamarcus Russell was the first pick in the draft, Vince Young is a rising star, Steve McNair is a setting sun, Donovan McNabb is the second best QB in football when healthy, Daunte Culpepper might be the third best QB in football when healthy, Jason Campbell is promising, Byron Leftwich is solid, and Tavaris Jackson is... well he might play a lot. Plus there are a lot of promising black backups on league rosters. Michael Vick is a talented screwup but he doesn't affect the overall progress of black QBs. McNabb the second best when healthy? Culpepper 3rd? Neither one of those guys would be in my top 6, and Culpepper wouldn't be in my top 12. Leftwich is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastes Like Chicken Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 are there actually people that care about the color of anothers skin anymore? Get into a discussion with just about anyone, about Barack Obama. No one asks if McCain can get elected, being a white man and all. Race unfortunately is still an issue. So is ignorance. But progress is made every day, I think, even in football. The amount of melanin in JC's skin is not going to affect his performance on the field, and doesn't affect how I see him. I just want him to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Get into a discussion with just about anyone, about Barack Obama. No one asks if McCain can get elected, being a white man and all. Race unfortunately is still an issue. So is ignorance. But progress is made every day, I think, even in football. The amount of melanin in JC's skin is not going to affect his performance on the field, and doesn't affect how I see him. I just want him to succeed. We still haven't had a woman or a Jewish President either. Until JFK came along we had never had a Catholic President. Once a black, woman or Jew is elected it will no longer be an issue for the next wave of that particular group. People tend to gravitate towards people that are just like them. Whites tend to vote for whites because they can relate on a much closer level and there is a general feeling that they will carry the same values. Blacks vote for blacks for the same reason. If Obama is elected and does a good job the stigma will essentially be erased. Sports is a totally different arena. 99.9% of sports fans want the guy in there that gives the team the best chance to win. What percentage of white Redskin fans do you think want Mark Brunell or Casey Bramlet to get a shot before Jason Campbell? I'm guessing it is a really, really, really small number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desioreo87 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 We still haven't had a woman or a Jewish President either. Until JFK came along we had never had a Catholic President. Once a black, woman or Jew is elected it will no longer be an issue for the next wave of that particular group. People tend to gravitate towards people that are just like them. Whites tend to vote for whites because they can relate on a much closer level and there is a general feeling that they will carry the same values. Blacks vote for blacks for the same reason. If Obama is elected and does a good job the stigma will essentially be erased. Sports is a totally different arena. 99.9% of sports fans want the guy in there that gives the team the best chance to win. What percentage of white Redskin fans do you think want Mark Brunell or Casey Bramlet to get a shot before Jason Campbell? I'm guessing it is a really, really, really small number. This is all very true however on the whole there is still a stigma on black QBs. Its because that many of the black QBs that have come out have primarily been scramblers without much of a passing game and therefore they are looked down upon. Its not until McNabb became a pass-first QB that his career really took off. Vick has never made that adjustment and he is still stuck in second gear. When culpepper stopped scrambling we saw that he is only an average QB at best. Until there are more pass-first black qbs who succeed in the NFL, there will be a lingering stigma. I think in the next few years it will go away with the success of JC, Russell, and hopeflly young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mursilis Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 This is really where I was trying to get at but I could never find the words. Campbell, Russel, and Leftwich are quarterbacks that think pass first. That is why I am really hyped about Campbell. Yes he can break a long run (Giants Saturday night game). But he usually thinks pass first, like that pass to Moss in the Saints game. Frankly, I think this whole debate over "run-first" vs. "pass-first" QBs is silly - I prefer my QBs to be "win-first" and how they get into the W column is beside the point. If a QB is truly a gifted scrambler, then why not use that gift? I've seen that darn McNabb burn us enough (especially in his early years) with his running to understand that the game is about advancing the ball, and as long as it goes forward, the methodolgy isn't all that important. Regarding black QBs, I took in a fair bit of draft coverage this year, and in the 'best QB' debate centering around Brady Quinn and JaMarcus Russell, I don't remember seeing a SINGLE writer or commentator bring up the race issue. I think black QBs are at the point that they're being judged as QBs, and not as blacks. Which is how it should be. To me, a black QB is no more abnormal than a black RB, WR, or any other position. The only question is, can he play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 wasn't there a quote one time "the key to end racism is to stop looking at issues/people as black or white?" I know the issue was something I didn't like, but the quote stands out. Racists are out there, but I think for most, why should it make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillbillydeluxe44 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 the first black quarterback that I remember actually watching on TV was James Harris from the Rams, number 12......that was when I was a little kid....the only reason I remember it is because the announcers for the game brought it up who's the first one you guys remember watching play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Everyone is forgetting another black QB... Tony Banks. I always liked him, for some reason. And he didn't do too bad for us. To be honest, I don't really see a QBs color. I mean, I physically see it, but most of the time it doesn't even register in my brain what color they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tastes Like Chicken Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 One place where there is definitely no problem with black QB's- Jacksonville. They have Garrard and Leftwich, and Schefter reports that they are heavy favorites to sign Daunte Culpepper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 This is such a 1980s era baby boomer discussion. It's completely irrelevant in today's NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Count me amongst those who don't see this as an issue at all anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliz Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 This also reminds me of Irvin's (somewhat buried by the media) comment to the effect that Romo sits to pee must have had some black ancestry (as an explanation for his speed/athleticism). The comment was a bit more vulgar than that, actually: "He doesn't look like he's that type of an athlete. But he is. He is, man. I don't know if some brother down in that line somewhere, I don't know who saw what or where, his great-great-great-great-grandma ran over in the 'hood or something went down." "If great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandma pulled one of them studs up out of the barn, 'Come on in here for a second,' you know, and they go out and work in the yard. You know, back in the day." The point is, racism goes both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoyler23 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I don't care about race at any position in any sport. I don't think the stigma of the black qb exists too much anymore. I hope to believe that fans care more about results than race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunBunch7 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 It's a non-issue anymore. I mean how many people think of Jason Campbell as a black QB? He is a burgundy and gold QB. Thankyou!:applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Willie Thrower, when I say that name dose it ring a bell. Probaly not, as a matter of fact five minutes ago I did not even know who he was. In 1952, Willie Thrower was the first black quarterback in the NFL. He played in only one game with the Chicago Bears in 1953, and that was to relieve George Blanda. He completed three of eight passes for 27 yards with an interception in a 35-28 loss. The reason I brought this up was because of the news today of Vick being indicted, and I wanted to start this discussion. I think even with what happened to Vick that we are still moving forward. In the past six year there has been two black quarterbacks selected number 1 overall in the NFL Draft and there has been one more quarterback to start in the Super Bowl. The future is bright for black quarterbacks as well. With young quarterbacks like Jamarcus Russell of the Oakland Raiders, Tarvaris Jackson of the Minnesota Vikings, and Jason Campbell of the Washington Redskins. So people can you add more insight to the state of the black quarterback. I am only eighteen years old, I only been watching football for ten years. I don’t know much about Cunningham, Moon, and Doug Williams. I don't know why Vick would conjure up a thread about Black QB's or the state of black QB's. But I'm like alot of others in here. I don't think many football fans look at color anymore. We just want good players. I rooted for Doug Williams as hard as I rooted for Joe T. and Mark Rypien. I don't know if I'd put Tavaris Jackson in a gruop of promising QB's. He's very raw right now and didn't show very much last season. Cunningham was one of the best all around QB's. He could run, throw and even Punt. He holds the Eagles record for the longest punt (91 yds). He had the best balance of any player in his day. It was hard to bring him down. Moon was a good QB. He had the luxury of playing in the run and shoot offense most of his career which allowed him to put up buig numbers. Not a reall strong arm, but a very heady QB who knew where to go with the ball. A non-scrambler. Doug was a very average QB. He played on some terrible TB teams and his career went south when he went to the USFL. Joe revived his career and gave him a chance. We were able to ride the combination of him and Jay for the 87-88 season to a SB title. He was injury prone during most of his career. Had a strong arm. Non scrambler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desioreo87 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 This thing is still an issue simply because there is a high percentage of scrambling black qbs. I think Vince Young also adds to this because if you saw him play last yaer, the guy doesn't have the throwing ability yet to be great. Sure he has the legs, but if you keep using them so much they will tire and if you have never developed your throwing ability, ala mike vick, then you are screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Doug was a very average QB. He played on some terrible TB teams and his career went south when he went to the USFL. Joe revived his career and gave him a chance. We were able to ride the combination of him and Jay for the 87-88 season to a SB title. He was injury prone during most of his career. Had a strong arm. Non scrambler. Williams wasn't much of a scrambler by the time he got to the Skins but he moved pretty good when he was younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 It's a non-issue anymore. I mean how many people think of Jason Campbell as a black QB? He is a burgundy and gold QB. And Mike Vick doesnt represent every black QB, past and present, just as any white QB that has screwed up doesnt represent ever white QB, past and present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desioreo87 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 And Mike Vick doesnt represent every black QB, past and present, just as any white QB that has screwed up doesnt represent ever white QB, past and present. True, but he does represent 1 of the 2 molds of the black qbs. He is clearly a scrambler qb, as is VY, as was McNabb, as was Culpepper (whenever he wasn't throwing the ball as far as he could to a streaking Moss), as was Randall Cunningham. I use him because he is the best example of the QB that never developed a passing game. If Mike Vick had developed a passing game then the whole progression of the Black QB would be much farther down the road however he was more of a detriment to Black QBs than a benefit. The same thing could happen to VY if he never develops his passin game. However he has another 3 years to prove that he can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Williams wasn't much of a scrambler by the time he got to the Skins but he moved pretty good when he was younger. :laugh: I wouldn't call what he did in TB scrambling. More like fearing for his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 If Culpepper signs in Jax, they've officially cornered the market for black QB's: Culpepper, Leftwich, Gerrard and Gray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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