AJWatson3 Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Having a bit of a debate in my fantasy football league over the past week. We've got 3 Bears fans (2 bro's 1 sis)in there and they swear that Grossman is a better QB than Campbell. I differ. Want to know if anybody else out there in reality can help end this.... I think my last post might finally be enough. This all started after I posted the link to Sean Taylor's ProBowl hit on the punter, I just wanted people to check it out. Here is my post and the following dialogue... From me: "Check it out before the NFL finds out and copywrite's it again! Thank you youtube.com! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qmCuD4nCi0" Greg: "too bad he didn't do more of that in football games that counted." Me: "Greg, I know you were busy watching Mike Brown nurse an injury again this season... 28 missed games in 3 seasons... ouch! Try playing in the box and having to cover deep every game to make up for a depleted secondary. Not so easy." Gary: "The skins were so bad that the one guy who plays decently on the team is made to look like an all-star. I'm just surprised he didn't spit on anyone during that exhibition." Me: "He had a bad year. I'll be the first to admit that. he was playing out of position because the chump safety you guys just traded for doesn't know how to cover or read defenses well. And he isn't the best player on our defense-- that'd be Marcus Washington!" Gary: "I never said he was the best, I just said he played decently. Also, you skin fans keep blaming the free agents you pay a ton for. You're like the obnoxious girl in denial...you ever think that maybe it is just your team?" Me: "That's funny, I never said he was the best either. And we have the same amount of money to spend as ya'll do.... we just choose to actually compensate good players, not try to trade them because we don't want to give them market-value contracts... December 6th we'll see what's up. No more winning games on fake FG's either! Let's see how Grossman looks after Sean Taylor or Laron Landry levels him like the poor punter in the video clip... Wait, maybe that will knock some sense into him..." Me editing: "one more thing... when you say that only one guy on our team defense played decently, i assumed you meant he was our best defensive player." Gary: "1st...it's wrong to make assupmtions. 2nd...You again are assuming that Lance Briggs is worth what he is asking. The Bears are willing to pay him the average of the five highest paid linebackers in the league. I like Briggs but he is not one of the five best. Playing beside Brian Urlacher makes him look better than he really is and there is no denying that. 3rd...Rex Grossman is still a better QB than anyone the Redskins have. 4th...Dear God how retarded were the redskins to see that BRIAN URLACHER was out on the field goal unit and not cover him. AND THEN continue their brilliantly executed defense of NOT covering him after he goes in motion once again...ON A FIELD GOAL!!!!!!! 5th...I understand that you have the same amount of money as the Bears do. For my money...I'll take the Bears. PS Adam Archuleta looked pretty damn good when he was playing safety for the Rams...maybe you guys just don't know how to use him. But then again I forgot..Joe Gibbs was a coaching genius...in the early 90's." Then Jay got involved: "Now don't get carried away gary. Grossman is NOT better than any of the redskins QB's. You see, the bears got where they were IN SPITE of grossman. Calling Grossman better than any of the redskins QB's is a bold statement considering grossman had games with a quarterback rating of 1.3 and 0.0. Basically it was thomas jones and the bears D versus the colts in the super bowl. I think even thomas jones would have had a better year at QB." Gary: "Let's take a look see... Campbell- Passer rating in the 90's in 2 games out of seven Grossman- A 98.6+ passer rating in 8 of 16 games. (Manning is the only other QB this season to do that) Maybe there is a reason why they both made it to the Superbowl. Now I admit I underestimated Campbell's stats...though not by much and I can even see how some redskin fans would rather have Campbell for their QB but you can't go against a guy who quarterbacked his team to a 13 and 3 record and took them all the way to the Superbowl. As for your IN SPITE OF remark... Rex played well in the playoffs even though he had a bad Superbowl. And you can't say that the Bears would have crushed all those teams without a good quarterback leading them. AND THEN saying that Grossman isn't as good as ANY of the Skins QBs??? Spoken like a true Redskin. Now just take a moment and look at what you said. All these QBs are listed on the roster from the Washington Redskins' website and according to you are better than the reigning NFC Champion's quarterback. 15 Collins, Todd 8 Brunell, Mark 5 Bramlet, Casey 17 Campbell, Jason 14 Hollenbach, Sam 3 Palmer, Jordan Think about your argument before making such a ridiculous statement. I'll be shocked if Campbell leads your team into the top half of your division. While he's working on that I'll watch my Bears take a bye the first week of the playoffs." My final response "Jason Campbell only started 7 games. And had 2 games with a passer rating over 90. He finished the season with a rating of 76.5; not bad for his first look in the NFL. Especially considering that 3 of the 7 teams he faced made the playoffs. 2 more were in contention up until the final week. Grossman only faced 4 playoff teams in his 16 regular season starts! We don't all have the luxury of playing Green Bay, Detroit, and Minnesota twice per year. Oh yeah... and Arizona. Oh yeah... and Buffalo. Campbell's two worst games of the year, by far, were against ATL and PHI where he was a combined 33/65 (51%) for 399 yards, 2td's, 4int's and rushed for 53 yards. Poor numbers, no doubt. But not so bad as to lose the game for his team. Unlike GrossMan. In GrossMan's last 7 starts (same time frame as Campbell) he lost games for his team. And games that he should have lost for them, they won. Why? Not because of stellar numbers like 6/19 passing for 34 yards and 3int's..... but because their defense played well, forced lots of turnovers, and got great field position most of the time! All things having nothing to do with their esteemed QB. And this happened all season long. ****, Kyle Orton could've won with a defense and return game like that... wait, he did?!?! Find me another QB that can have a season passer rating of 59.7 and lead his team to 11 wins and the playoffs! Well, for a time there Rex tried his best, finished with a 73.9 QB rating-- lower than Jason Campbell's...! Yet he was still the guy they were making ProBowl commercials about... in September and October! That's got nothing to do with December and January. This is the kind of stuff Rex threw up (no pun intended) when it came down to crunchtime... he obviously got very comfortable and had no need to perform with CHI up comfortably on their division rivals... Week 11 @ NYJ- 11/22 50% 119yds 1td (win 10-0) Week 12 @ NE- 15/34 44% 176yds 3int (lose 17-13) Week 13 vs MIN- 6/19 32% 34 yds 3int (WIN 23-13) Week 16 @ DET- 20/36 56% 197 yds 1td (win 26-21) Week 17 vs GB- 2/12 17% 33yds 3int (lose 26-7) wow. some of that is just plain PITIFUL. i don't know how you can convince yourselves that this guy is your QB of the future. he's had 4 years in the league now. lots of time to study since he and Mike Brown seem to have the same injury history. and he still can't crack a QB rating of 80 for a season. annointed savior of the Windy City after beating the Packers in his second season with a 10/18 132 yds 1td 1 int performance... seems kinda familiar, huh? 3200 yards, 23 touchdowns and 20 interceptions may be enough to get you to the Super Bowl in Chicago, but that's about it. Are the Bears a running team because it's the best way to keep the ball out of the opposing teams hands... or are they a running team to keep the ball out of their quarterbacks hands?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I like Rex and think he will have a very good career in the NFL. JC, while I have a lot of hope and he has potential, he hasn't proven anything yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNoles21 Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 grossman is garbage...the bears made it to the super bowl because they played the weakest schedule ive ever seen...game over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Z Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I like Rex and think he will have a very good career in the NFL. JC, while I have a lot of hope and he has potential, he hasn't proven anything yet. Rex IS proven. Proven to suck (especially in the clutch) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 You're final post is pretty much all that you CAN say. The thing is, he's just going to focus on Rex being proven, and he's right to a certain extent. We really can't say much about Jason yet, except that he has plenty more talent and potential than Grossman. Now, will he ever realize that potential? We'll see. I surely think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Put it this way, the Bears would have been 16-0 had it not been for Grossman. Most teams who are strong but not strong enough to win the superbowl are weak in one minor area, where as the Bears are pretty strong at all positions except one. Rex Grossman is the biggest liability in ALL of football. No one player holds his team back as much as he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylorfan2179 Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Campbell is unproven. Grossman is...he sucks. argument over. btw who won the last meeting between the skins and the bears? oh thats right. we did. The bears are the most boring team in the NFL. Even the Texans are more fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 ]']Put it this way' date=' the Bears would have been 16-0 had it not been for Grossman. Most teams who are strong but not strong enough to win the superbowl are weak in one minor area, where as the Bears are pretty strong at all positions except one. Rex Grossman is the biggest liability in ALL of football. No one player holds his team back as much as he does.[/quote']Come on now. They would have won more games and most likely the superbowl if Brown and Harris had been healthy and on the feild. From mid season on, thier D wasn't that great. Up to the cards game, they had outscored teams something like 92-14 in the second half of games. The offense, lead by grossman, kept that team winning. Later in the year, because of injuries to the D, they put more on the shoulders of Rex. He was basically a rookie last year and had some very good games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
los227 Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 There is NOTHING to like about Rex Grossman... Except maybe his unexpected Deep voice. You put Campbell with that bears defense and have, what,4-5 years experience, Campbell WAY better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramdizzle Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Kyle Orton is your biggest chip in teh argument. he won 11 games that year. Orton sucks something awful. while i will concede that grossman is much better than orton he still hasnt proven that he can win a game if the running game isnt working. until then he will never be better than average Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Pressure Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I have a lot of friends who are Chicago Bears fans, many of whom still live in Chicago or are from Chicago, and have a long family history of supporting Chicago sports teams. Not a single one of them likes Rex Grossman or thinks he is a good quarterback. Jason Campbell must prove himself this year, but that is better than already being proven as a choke, a bad player, a turnover machine, whatever you want to call Grossman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Come on now. They would have won more games and most likely the superbowl if Brown and Harris had been healthy and on the feild. ...and Grossman wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 I hear you on the injury reasoning, but every team deals with them... hell, we didn't have Portis and our secondary was a mess. We would've been OK with Pierson back at safety instead of Archuleta, but he got hurt on play 1 of the season! Ugh! Harris is great, you all won't remember me pushing hard for us to draft him back when... archives... But let's not forget Tank Johnson... and the great distraction he was. Grossman got worse as the season progressed. Maybe it was pressure. Maybe it was injuries. Maybe, and Bears fans pray not, it was the cold weather???? For whatever reason he regressed, much like Romo sits to pee did, towards the end of the season and the most important part of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted May 21, 2007 Author Share Posted May 21, 2007 Oh yeah, KoolBlue13, I don't care how many injuries you have sustained during a career, or how much time you have missed, but no way can you consider a guy who has been in the league for 3 seasons prior a rookie. He played in every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 The jury's still out on both guys, though Grossman has obviously had more opportunities. I think Campbell at the end of the day will have more game sense and be less rattles, and therefore less prone to making the Big Mistake that Grossman makes. Whether Campbell can make the big plays that Grossman makes remains to be seen, but personally I'm encouraged. I'm very happy with our guy and wouldn't trade him for Grossman, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flash22 Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 grossman is a vary underrated QB....anybody that leads a team to a 13-3 record and the superbowl and takes the amount of backlash that he does i have respect for. He doesn't have any real weapons (muhammed(sp) isn't that good) and his running game isn't great, It's barely above average...while it would be crazy to say grossman carried his team its it safe to say that he won some games for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fergasun Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 No way those guys are Bears fans. Bears fans HATE Grossman... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylorcoreskin Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I bet grossman will have more INTs than campbell this year? any takers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flycoach Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 JC is already better than Grossman. Starting a new team and you had to choose between the 2, bet you JC gets picked 7 times out of 10 (the other 3 being the Bears fans in your fantasy league). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I like how the Bears guy brought up a game played 4 seasons ago when we lost on a fake FG, yet 2 years ago, we beat them 9-7 in spite of playing 1/2 a QB in Brunell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatSkins27 Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 the devil you know vs. the savior you dont! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneBoost Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Campbell would have played better in the SB for them, thats a def. But hey, I guess when Campbell puts up some big #'s on them this season, they'll understand why he's better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsManNJ Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Grossman gets it in his head to believe people when they say he reminds them of Favre and when he does that he has horrible games. When he knows he isn't anything close to Favre he plays ok. Other than that he its pretty much a 4th year rookie. Jury is still out on him. JC we shall see how his hard work pays off this being a full-time starter. But from what I've seen out of both of them JC is the better QB. Poise in the pocket, awareness is higher, and actually holds on to the ball when its snapped to him. Here's to a great season from JC and us walking all over the Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I haven't read this anywhere, but watching him play, it looks like Grossman's hands are too small. He doesn't get a good enough grip on the ball, and as a result puts WAYYYY too much air underneath it. The contrast in stats on Grossman between the beginning of the season versus the end is staggering, and the reason seems quite clear to me. Initially, when there was little film on him, defensive coordinators tried to rattle him by going after him, and he burned them by going long. After seeing film, they changed tactics and instead told their defensive backs to worry less about Berrian's speed, and to look back towards the line of scrimmage when they dropped into coverage. Risking a couple big ones was well worth it when balanced with the numerous opportunities for takeaways from all the wounded ducks he threw up. Watch any film of Grossman; there's always a ton of air under the ball. If this problem stems from small hands as I believe it does, no amount of coaching can fix it, ESPECIALLY when he plays in wet weahter as he did in the SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 my own estimation is that Jason Campbell will turn out to be the better pro quarterback. Why? to me it is simple humility. he puts in the time and works 110% at his craft because he has a healthy fear of failure. meanwhile, Grossman is a much more self-assured player from his college days and has a sizeable ego. A player like Grossman is going to have to learn how to buckle down and work to stay in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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