Is Gibbs II a failure?

[robotfire]

I am reading a lot of posts that say Gibbs II is a failure. Hopefully these posts are fueled by anger from the loss yesterday... I'm curious to see what people think at this point. 4-8 so far this year. 16-16 from the first two years (with a playoff birth and win). Is Gibbs a failure this time around?

I think it's ENTIRELY unfair to call him a failure this early on, particularly after a great season last year. Surely he deserves a longer leash than some of us fans are giving him, right?

Personally, I think he has been the best Redskins coach since he left the first time.

[MeNoRevs]

Well I dont know how you can call this "early" in this second stint since its more then half way over (he signed a 5 year contact)...

But you cant call it a success, so what then do you call it? I think he has failed to build a team instead of "get it while you can" type team.

Of course he is the best coach since he left, but I sure did like Marty when he was here.

[DWinzit]

He didn't seem like a failure last season when the team was only a couple players away and he was involved more in the offense.

[Sarge]

The failure has been in the two underling coaches. GIbbs has let them pretty much run the show this year until recently, and this is what we've gotten for it

[Chief skin]

HE11 NO been here 3 years and made playoffs However I think we need football people in front office making personnell decisions (not Vinny and Richie Rich)

[SkinsFTW]

He hasn't been a complete failure but I think he has focused more on winning now than building a team. It would be one thing if he wasn't trying to win for 3 years with Brunell since Brunell is hardly a championship calibur QB.

This season he let Williams and Saunders run it and they failed. You can't blame him really. Williams has already proven over 2 seasons that he is a great DC and Saunders was supposedly the best in the business. Everything fell apart this year.

I think a lot of us predicted this after the playoffs last year. They would stick with Brunell and it wouldn't work. But nobody thought Saunders offense would be such a flop. That has to fall on Gibbs for not ensuring we had the right personnel or a team ready for the season.

[Gallntfox]

A failure, no, a dissapointment, yes. Regardless of when he leaves I fear that we won't be left with much of a team.

[robotfire]

I think a lot of us predicted this after the playoffs last year. They would stick with Brunell and it wouldn't work. But nobody thought Saunders offense would be such a flop. That has to fall on Gibbs for not ensuring we had the right personnel or a team ready for the season.

I think a lot of the shortcomings have to fall on Gibbs, but I also think you need to support the coach through thick and thin. He's earned that much, I think. Gibbs's team isn't winning right now, but they won last year. Who's to say it won't happen again next year? How quickly can ANY coach take a team to the Super Bowl, after all? It takes time, luck, talent, and motivation to get there. We haven't given Gibbs enough time, he hasn't had enough luck, the talent is there, and the motivation was there until this season for some reason... I think this ship will be righted, and we will call Gibbs a hero by the time this is over.

Take the good with the bad.

[Big Weirdo]

No..

But I am.

[Guest sith lord]

It's been a failure so far. He's in his third year and this team looks as bad as ever. Plus, he has a losing record since his return.

[Mark The Homer]

So far, Gibbs' BEST consecutive two years in Gibbs II is WORSE than his WORST consecutive two years in Gibbs I.

His current best is worse than this past worst.

We really can't answer the question until another 25-26 months pass.

[MeNoRevs]

So far, Gibbs' BEST consecutive two years in Gibbs II is WORSE than his WORST consecutive two years in Gibbs I.

His current best is worse than this past worst.

We really can't answer the question until another 25-26 months pass.

But we can start getting out the pens and pads

[PeterMP]

He hasn't been a complete failure but I think he has focused more on winning now than building a team. It would be one thing if he wasn't trying to win for 3 years with Brunell since Brunell is hardly a championship calibur QB.

This season he let Williams and Saunders run it and they failed. You can't blame him really. Williams has already proven over 2 seasons that he is a great DC and Saunders was supposedly the best in the business. Everything fell apart this year.

I think a lot of us predicted this after the playoffs last year. They would stick with Brunell and it wouldn't work. But nobody thought Saunders offense would be such a flop. That has to fall on Gibbs for not ensuring we had the right personnel or a team ready for the season.

Your writing is a little confusing. In the beginning you say you can't blame him for Williams and Suander failure, but then in the end you say blame him for not having the team read for the season.

In the end, it all comes down to him. He picked Williams and Suanders. He is President of the team and de facto GM and picks the players.

If the goal is trip to the SB (I'll even just say making it to the game and not winning it), which is how success is measured in the NFL, then Gibbs II is and will be a failure. Might they finish 9-7 or 10-6 and make the playoffs again? They might. The NFC is that bad, but this team will not make a SB in the next two years. There are too many holes.

[Geoff_K]

Well ... only 1 out of 3 seasons worth a darn .. a 33% win record. what does a 33% get you on a test ?

[LechMich]

Gibbs and staff have to go.

[endzone_dave]

Placing all his hopes on an old QB who Jacksonville had already decided was washed up and trying to build the team through free agency without a good GM in place were both huge mistakes. He now has to hope that JC can ramp up quickly and that Saunders' system starts producing. There's still hope.

[MeNoRevs]

Well ... only 1 out of 3 seasons worth a darn .. a 33% win record. what does a 33% get you on a test ?

Gets you in the HOF in baseball

[Skin Deep]

So far, yes.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

This season was over when Coach Gibbs decided to hire an offensive coordinator instead of a General Manager.

It takes 2 years for a new offensive scheme to take hold, for the players to get used to and comfortable with it. Add to that a rookie QB, and we should've started him since Week One. The more exposure Jason Campbell has to the new offense the better, and unfortunately Mark Brunell (try as he might) did not have enough left in the tank this year to make the system work. The problem last year was not the scheme, it was the worn-out, beleagured QB. Our team is pressing up against next year's projected cap, and we have made poor personnel decision after poor personnel decision. I am not on board anymore with the 'win now' mentality. I am not on board with giving away our draft picks and paying millions of dollars to schmoozed free agents. I am not on board with Gibbs the President/CEO/Personnel Man. Gibbs should be the Head Coach, nothing more, nothing less. Cerrato has no real power and so everything is being done within a group mindset. Where does the buck stop? Don't even say the name Dan Snyder. Do you think he'd ever say no to Coach Gibbs?

This team needs a major restart. Coach Gibbs needs to fire himself as personnel man and hire a GM and some real talent evaluators. He needs to get back to basics, old school if you will, and instill some fear in these players. Stop babying them in camp. Don't tell me that it's the players' fault. Coach's job is to prepare them, get them ready, and in this team's case, he has hand selected them. So one of two scenarios is apparent here; if they are quitters, then he chose them so it's his problem. If they are the right people for this team, then they are showing up unprepared and unmotivated each week and the spotlight goes back to Gibbs- who they neither fear nor respect enough at this point. As President/CEO, he has also given Gregg Williams total control (including personnel decisions) and that is a big mistake and maybe the lion's share of the problem. Even Richie Petitbon didn't have that kind of authority.

Gibbs can still right this ship, but he needs to hire a GM, fire himself as President, and get back to basics.

[rawtwo]

It's not looking very good right now, but I won't say it's a failure yet. I will save that judgement until after Coach Gibbs finally decides to leave the orginization. If he leaves the 'Skins in better shape than they were in before he returned, then I would say it was a success. But it surely isn't lookin' to great right about now. Not good at all......

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

A failure? No. But right now, I would grade Gibbs II at a C at best. Without that winning streak last year, it's a D-...but that was a nice memory.

[Henry]

Parcells, his first time back from retirement, went 5-11 his first season.

His second season back, he started out 3-6, but then won 7 straight to finish out 10-6, made the playoffs and lost but in the first round. This gave the perennial loser Patriots hope for the future.

Well, his third season was a step back. And he went 6-10.

His fourth season he went 11-5 and got to the superbowl, and the Patriots haven't looked back. Ever since Parcells has been considered a HOF lock.

Is Gibbs II a failure? Maybe. But other great coaches have bounced back from setbacks. Gibbs might as well.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Parcells, his first time back from retirement, went 5-11 his first season.

His second season back, he started out 3-6, but then won 7 straight to finish out 10-6, made the playoffs and lost but in the first round. This gave the perennial loser Patriots hope for the future.

Well, his third season was a step back. And he went 6-10.

His fourth season he went 11-5 and got to the superbowl, and the Patriots haven't looked back. Ever since Parcells has been considered a HOF lock.

Is Gibbs II a failure? Maybe. But other great coaches have bounced back from setbacks. Gibbs might as well.

Good point, Henry. But Parcells was only away from coaching for two years, and while gone he was still commentating so he was still 'around the sport.' Coach Gibbs was away for over ten years and busy with Nascar.

[skinsmania123]

THe way i see it is that Gibbs did what he thought was best. He has tried to institute a system on both Defense and Offense, and the major issue may be more the execution than the inception of the idea. If we were 8-4 we would be saying how brilliant Gibbs is. We would be calling the idea of managing over two Assistant Head coaches on Offense and Defense as masterful...but since the institution of the idea is not working we call HIM a failure. I mean Saunders was very successful in KC with his playcalling. Williams was highly successful the last two years as well. So how could Gibbs not think he had a winning institution??

The accountability IMO comes down to a number of areas. I think we have had to dumb down the offense all year because of the limitations Brunell brought to the table because of his physical limitations and with Campbell his youth. Also if you cannot implement even the simplist of concepts how can you get more complex? I just do not think you can. This team historically does well when they run well ...but yesterday, as they have done, time and time again abandoned the run when it was working well. Perhaps they were trying to get a bit more multi-dimensional in their play, and it was not a bad idea conceptually but it did not work...so they should have dumbed it down again and ran more. We were beating the Falcons with the run and dominating the line of scrimmage. Part of the problem I have with this team is their inability to stay with what works , and this is where Gibbs needed to step in and say: the run works more..let's stay with it. BUT to mix it up to spread the field and keep the defenses honest is important too. Sure, run most of the time BUT why not pass on the first down occasionally? We are guilty of the dumb down because of our QB situation I think, but still we could have thrown more on 1st or 2nd downs this year just to not be so predictable.

I watched the Giants and Cowhokes play yesterday and they passed a ton..both QB's, very little running on both sides BUT when they ran it was a surprise to the other team, particularly at the end and I watched Barber rack up the yards and Jones. But they stuck mostly to the pass, both teams.

Finally I think our inability to do what we do on offense this year was due to an injury to Clinton Portis and Brunell's inability to to do more as an athelete because of his age. AND the only thing I BLAME Gibbs for was taking a QB, named Mark Brunell who had been dumped by Jacksonville because he did not have it anymore...giving him a King's Ransom, and sticking with him when it was evident that he would be serviceable at best most of the time.

And the other threads have talked about our poor Defensive play, particularly in our screwed up secondary. That whole unit needs to be reworked...

[altair4]

I think the organization has failed. When Gibbs is plugged in and on line you can tell, as the team responds and finds a way to win the close ones. What I think happened is that given his age, he and others near him do not want him to self-destruct by pouring his energies into the team as he has done in the past. That is a fair idea, but flawed, as his Assistant coaches are not him, and do not have the track record, or the will apparently, to drive their teams to the playoffs and beyond.

Couple that with the complete collapse of the D, for WHATEVER reasons, and I think it is the wiser course for him to conserve his energies to guide a run next year. As much as I love Buges and Breauz and company, I really think they need to streamline the coaching staff, and focus on winning.

Not dancing.