Is Gibbs II a failure?

[skinfan2k]

obviously gibbs hasn't learned much in 3 yrs since coming back.. they still dont know how to run an effective 4 min, and 2 min.. timeouts are still being questioned and challeneges are not being called in the correct manner..

[redskin48]

............No

[SoCalSkins]

It's more accurate to say that Snyder is a failure. The way he has constructed the FO is a joke. Gibbs is in the middle of a mess and he's making it work as best he can.

I'm glad we have an owner who spends money, but I wish he'd spend it wisely and get someone in the FO who knows what he's doing.

Hail,

H

I call BS on that. Snyder handed Gibbs full control and a blank checkbook. I would blame Snyder if he makes Gibbs leave earlier than he wants. Gibbs has earned the opportunity to stick around as long as he wants, but the failure is squarely on his shoulders.

A GM will not add any value unless he has power. I don't foresee Gibbs giving up final say as to who will be on his roster. It is far different than letting Saunders call the plays.

[Oxtalls]

Some of the angry people have to begin to think (for once) and recall exactly what he took over when you are evaluating him here at the 1/2 way point of his 2nd tenure.

he took over, what I thought was the absolute WORST SITUATION in the NFL (with acknowledgments going to Coughlin taking for the Fassel Debacle).

Do you remember 2003? Better yet, do you remember December of 2003? Do you remember the stories, the rumors, that the Head Friggin Coach wanted to quit before the year started (in August) because he didn't feel up to the task? Do you remember what the franchise looked like in December? They were awful. 5-11. Buried at home to Dallas 27-0, and the feeling that they had either a coach who wanted to quit or a coach incapable of running the team, no quality staff behind him and a chewed up and spit out QB with Trung Candidate for a RB. No defense. Little offense. And a sense in Washington of hopelessness.

Make no mistake - Joe GIbbs took over a PILE of CRAP.

Year 1 - they were respectable. They were tough. They were in virtually every game.

Year 2 - playoffs and a playoff win. The word playoffs and Redskins are polar opposites normally so accomplishing that is something.

Year 3 - this year has been bad, no doubt. And I see problems with Gibbs, his staff, his players, and most importantly the Front Office process. But considering everything - this is not a failure - not yet anyways. People defiinately forget what this franchise was in 2003. Right now, they're not winning. In 2003, they couldn't win but they ALSO were a joke in every other facet. Their coach tried to quit on them!

I'm taking Joe Gibbs words here to describe a certain (favorite) player of everyone and I'm going to apply it to Gibbs: I don't think the story is done being written.

[SnyderMustGo]

Some of the angry people have to begin to think (for once) and recall exactly what he took over when you are evaluating him here at the 1/2 way point of his 2nd tenure.

True.

And what has Gibbs done about it?

Instead of hiding behind the "you can't say he is a failure because he hasn't quit yet", try taking the counter position:

Give me any metric for success that Gibbs has met and tell me how Gibbs has met that.

[IChiefLikeCP26]

Gibbs and staff have to go.

Don't completely agree, but something has to change, and the fans have no idea what that is, which to me scream head coach. Our team can't afford to be rebuilt yet again, but something has to happen.

There is obvious problems with coaching when Antwaan Randle El is telling the coaches, hey we don't have timeouts, and hey its 4th down, we can't spike it.

I know I am probably venting about the loss yesterday and unfotunately that is what is sticking out in my mine, but I feel like I could have called managed the clock better personally.

[Santana Clause]

The thing that I hate the most is that Parcells has done what we thought Gibbs was going to do. He traded down, built a great defense through the draft, drafted two young running backs, took a project qb and apparently made him a star and the future of the franchise. He went to that qb before the season was wasted, unlike Gibbs, and is now reaping the benefits. Does this anger everyone as much as it does me?

[Rocky21]

Is Gibbs II a failure?

Well if the goal is to win football games and the Skins have twice the number of losses as they do wins, I'd have to go with a yes.

[PeterMP]

The thing that I hate the most is that Parcells has done what we thought Gibbs was going to do. He traded down, built a great defense through the draft, drafted two young running backs, took a project qb and apparently made him a star and the future of the franchise. He went to that qb before the season was wasted, unlike Gibbs, and is now reaping the benefits. Does this anger everyone as much as it does me?

Parcells was unbelievably smart (or lucky) w/ Romo sits to pee. He's been there for a long time, but because he was such a low draft pick there was no pressure on him. He brought in the vetern to keep the pressure off. Then this year he knew he needed Romo sits to pee and thought Romo sits to pee would be ready so he started to talk Romo sits to pee up and even played him for a whole pre-season game (Bledsoe did not play at all) to get him the snaps and reps, and now it looks like it is going to pay off and even on a bad day Romo sits to pee is able to do enough for his team to win.

If you told me when Gibbs took the job that he would trade up to get a QB in the 1st round of year 2 and that player would not see the field in a regular season game until year 3 was half over I would have laughed at you.

The fact of the matter is Parcells has more experience of building a team than Gibbs, and Gibbs has not done it all during the salary cap era and FA, and that difference is now showing.

Can Gibbs turn this team around? I think so. I think he'll look at Parcells and what other teams are doing and adjust, but now it is going to take 4-5 years. Not the 2 he has left.

[Guest sith lord]

Gibbs II record 20-24 and could get worse before the season end. How can anyone with an open mind say that Gibbs II is not a failure?

[Pinche]

I wasn't a fan during the Gibbs I era, so I have no love for the guy other than taking us to the playoffs last year. Right now, I'm not very happy with him.

[Guest sith lord]

I wasn't a fan during the Gibbs I era, so I have no love for the guy other than taking us to the playoffs last year. Right now, I'm not very happy with him.

Actually, you're one of the few people on here that can look at it with an open mind considering you wasn't a fan during Gibbs I. I was a fan during the SB years and that has nothing to do with the way he's coaching now. There's no if, and, buts about it, Gibbs has done a bad job this year.

[RedskinzOwnU]

Actually, you're one of the few people on here that can look at it with an open mind considering you wasn't a fan during Gibbs I. I was a fan during the SB years and that has nothing to do with the way he's coaching now. There's no if, and, buts about it, Gibbs has done a bad job this year.

No doubt about it. I'm sick of the references to 20 years ago. None of that means a damn right now. The historic nostalgia is irrelevant to his current tenure. Whatever he's doing (and we don't really know what it is he's doing because it's a closed shop up at redskins part) it isn't working. Even if we could go back in time and steal the gibbs from the past, he still might not be able to get the job done today. Things have changed. He's trying to adapt, but failing to do so effectively. He needs to change what he's doing, or allow someone who knows what they are doing to take over.

[skinfan2k]

No doubt about it. I'm sick of the references to 20 years ago. None of that means a damn right now. The historic nostalgia is irrelevant to his current tenure. Whatever he's doing (and we don't really know what it is he's doing because it's a closed shop up at redskins part) it isn't working. Even if we could go back in time and steal the gibbs from the past, he still might not be able to get the job done today. Things have changed. He's trying to adapt, but failing to do so effectively. He needs to change what he's doing, or allow someone who knows what they are doing to take over.

right now gibbs is still coach because he is still living on his legacy on taking us to 4 superbowls and 3 victories.. if this were happneing elsewhere, gibbs would be fired at the end of the season

[Shadowplay]

I think we're looking at the very possibility of another 6-10 season. That would mean, what....6-10, 10-6 and 6-10 right? That's three seasons to judge his body of work.

This guy isn't a first round quarterback. He's a HOF coach that has shown in the past that he knows what it takes to win. This means that you shouldn't need a heck of a lot of games to judge his impact. Three years in the NFL is definitely a substantial amount of time. Let's look at where we'll most likely be after year three:

- No player of any real substance developed under the Gibbs regime. You can make an argument for Taylor, but the guy is still just a beast going off of athletic ability. He hasn't learned how to play the game and definitely has not improved his coverage skills. You can also make a case that he's regressed and that his path to the play has gotten worse resulting in more mistakes than plays made. There are a few others, notably Salave'a and Chris Cooley. Cooley has just been too inconsistent this year to warrant too much praise.

- Clock Management. The Redskins look like Larry, Curly and Moe out there when the clock becomes a factor. Timeouts taken to punt, NO no-huddle when the team is down by two scores with five minutes left. I thought last year they had made an improvement but they've had the same problems this season. It's an embarassment to watch this team try to execute the two minute drill.

- Player Personnel. I know my expectations might have been unreasonable. But when he came here, I expected a return to common sense in signing Free Agents and balance when it came to the draft. This definitely hasn't happened and until Gibbs uses Free Agency as a value added benefit instead of a crutch used to build an entire team every season, nothing is going to change.

- His stuborness to change. The guy was a master the first go around of making the right moves to win games in the third and fourth quarter. That's probably the most dissapointing thing about this season - the inability to make adjustments.

I just don't know how you CANNOT call his time here at the very least, a huge dissapointment. The team still reeks of Snyder, three years later....

[cyfar]

Has Joe made some bad decisions? Yes

Is Gibbs Era II a failure? No

Joe got us to the playoffs last year when no one had us even being a competetive team.

Is there a ton of disappointment over this season? Hell yes.

Did I leave the oven on? ...

[ibrahim]

People make excuses for Gibbs all the time, but lets face it, he is not half the coach he once was. We come up with excuses such as...It's a new system, we have a new QB, our D does not have pro-bowlers, blah blah blah.

Do you wanna know teams this season that fits the same exact description? Here goes...New Orleans (new coach, new offensive system, lack of "stars on defense) and New York Jets (new coach, new offensive system, lack of "stars on defense). How come these coaches can coach up their players to play to the level they are playing, and we keep giving "Lord Gibbs" a pass. Lets face it guys, he is not nearly half the coach he used to be.

[jlsneed]

The problem is that no adjustments were made to the game plan. It seemed like they were playing Skins Football in the first quarter. The next three seemed like they were trying to figure out how many ways they could give the game away.

Gibbs II is a failure this year because of these reasons:

1.) look how many coaches are on his staff. There are too many cooks in the kitchen. everybody seems to know what's best and we still suck.

2.) Offensive play calling. A team should call a reverse at most once every 6 games or so. In at least every game I can recall its been called; on a good team, a reverse should never work and if you call it every game you lose the element of surprise. I feel the same way about wide reciever screens. WE ARE GOING TO GET GUYS KILLED OUT THERE WITH THAT!

3.) Defensive play calling. Every viewer knows that Michael Vick is going to Algea Crumpler. Why didn't G. Williams? As a matter of fact. Crumpler was one-on-one with a rookie safty with no help.

4.) Conditioning we looked tired out there on both sides of the field. No motivation. Morale is still low. And we are the embarrassment of the NFL as teams keep racking records and breaking streaks on us.

Another 3 and 1/2 hours of my life I wasted.

[skinfan2k]

Do you wanna know teams this season that fits the same exact description? Here goes...New Orleans (new coach, new offensive system, lack of "stars on defense) and New York Jets (new coach, new offensive system, lack of "stars on defense). How come these coaches can coach up their players to play to the level they are playing, and we keep giving "Lord Gibbs" a pass. Lets face it guys, he is not nearly half the coach he used to be.

its a bulll**** excuse people make.... adjust your system according to your personnel..

[darrell1106]

Well I dont know how you can call this "early" in this second stint since its more then half way over (he signed a 5 year contact)...

But you cant call it a success, so what then do you call it? I think he has failed to build a team instead of "get it while you can" type team.

Of course he is the best coach since he left, but I sure did like Marty when he was here.

Bingo!:applause:

[robotfire]

So answer me the question when it is framed this way:

by what metric has GibbsII had any success?

This team showed improvement in his first year here. It showed more improvement in his second year here. This year has not shown improvement, but the first two years were improvements by any measuring stick you can come up with.

The first time around, Gibbs took over for a pretty good team that was similar to what he wanted. This time around, he took over for an incredibly bad team that was nothing like what he wanted.

Here's my conclusion for this year being a flop: He changed too many things from one season to the next. He played his guys too weak in the offseason because of how good they were the year before. He had many variables that were out of his hands (defense, Brunell's decline (though I was/am a Brunell supporter, he did decline), etc). He had a bad year. Lots of great coaches have bad years. It happens all the time. In fact, it looks like it's happening to Andy Reid two years in a row, and he's a future Hall of Famer if you ask me.

[fuji869]

Compared to Gibbs I yes.

Lets look at the first three seasons in each tenure.

[fuji869]

Compared to Gibbs I yes.

Lets look at the first three seasons in each tenure.

Gibbs I

1981 8-8

1982 12-1 Super Bowl XVII Champions

1983 16-3 NFC Champions

Gibbs II

1994 6-10

1995 11-7 NFC Wild Card

1996 4-8 so far.

Years 2&3 of Gibbs I is hard to beat.

[cougarskins]

Joe tried to do what he did in NASCAR and become a delegator. He won the first time by being the dynamic hard driving manager of the offense. He was somewhat aloof from the players. Donnie Warren said he rarely spoke with Joe Gibbs. He was not the friendly grandfather type he is now. He worked himself almost to death. He was driven. He almost had an unlimited amount to acquire and stash players with Jack Kent Cook. The age of pariety was not here. The early Joe Gibbs was not nearly loyal to a fault as he has become.

At the beginning of this so called Super Bowl year the "experts" said yes we were good but look at their QB's. There were questions about Brunell and the other QB's were a long term backup and a new guy. We know how that turned out.

The two eras can't be compared. We have a different Joe Gibbs now. Joe Gibbs has to return to his former self to have a true comparison. What we have now is Joe Gibbs the corporate president not the true offensive head coach. When he came here from San Diego he came as an offensive coach who was considered the head coach. It pains me to say it out loud but he got away from what he did best and this is what makes Gibbs II unsuccessful so far.

[robotfire]

Gibbs II record 20-24 and could get worse before the season end. How can anyone with an open mind say that Gibbs II is not a failure?

A: The season isn't over.

B: As was said by others, he took over a pile of crap. I can't stress enough how different Steve Spurrier's team was from what Gibbs wanted. Spurrier let every single positive part of the Redskins go, and it takes A LONG TIME to rebuild a team from scratch. Case in point: look at expansion teams. It takes time.

C: Four more losses than wins is not the Redskins football we've grown accustomed to since Gibbs left. I'm used to consistently cheering for a team that has a much worse win/loss ratio than that.

D: Playoffs last year, two games out of the Super Bowl. How can anyone with an open mind say that Gibbs II hasn't made this franchise better? One bad year does not a bad coach make. He's shown improvement in two of his three years.